Is Showing Cleavage Immodest? What Does the Bible Say?

[AutumnDreamer]

Women must look their best but women can do that without showing cleavage. It causes us guys to stumble so it isn't a sin but hey, do us guys a favor! If we are a family, why would you try to help us sin? Wouldn't it be the opposite? I'm sure thats the general consensus here.

So at what point do men start taking responsibility for their actions? Self-control is a fruit of the spirit, and maybe if men had a little bit more this wouldn't be an issue, I mean it is kind of like blaming McD's for americans getting fat.

 

[Catholic Wife]

Sorry I have no desire to have clothing tight up to my neck, and that is the only way I will be able to avoid "cleavage"

I have to agree with AutumnDreamer here. I don't purposely choose clothing that shows an excessive amount of cleavage. I try to dress as modestly as possible, but sometimes a small amount of cleavage does show because of the way God made me. Finding modest clothes that are also comfortable and somewhat fashionable is difficult - especially for those of us who are "well-endowed".

One other thing to consider is that men have a responsibility here, too. Men (especially Christians) might want to learn to practice what St. Augustine called "purity of the eyes":
Although your eyes may chance to rest upon some woman or other, you must not fix your gaze upon any woman. Seeing women when you go out is not forbidden, but it is sinful to desire them or to wish them to desire you, for it is not by tough or passionate feeling alone but by one's gaze also that lustful desires mutually arise. And do not say that your hearts are pure if there is immodesty of the eye, because the unchaste eye carries the message of an impure heart. And when such hearts disclose their unchaste desires in a mutual gaze, even without saying a word, then it is that chastity suddenly goes out of their life, even though their bodies remain unsullied by unchaste acts.

 

[wonderwaleye]

Dear AutumnDreamer


When I read this I could only wonder what it must be like to be a woman:



" What we need to remember is that men can lust over a woman covered from head to toe just as easily as a woman that is wearing a bikini. "



Men have something that's automatic but I won't go into that.


What pleases the eye more?

1. Two gorgeous flowers totally covered by leaves?

2. Two gorgeous flowers only partly covered by leaves?

The reason I used FLOWERS is I understand women LOVE flowers!


I hope this might bring understanding what us poor, weak, automatic men we are. Sometimes we have to bite STEEL just to keep from SIN.

PLEASE HAVE MERCY ON US!!!


WITH A SMILE LET US ALL REMEMBER:



XEven though you can't see Him, GOD is there!O
( click on the X and move to the O ) ( then feel who is around you ) steven

 

[holo]

So at what point do men start taking responsibility for their actions? Self-control is a fruit of the spirit, and maybe if men had a little bit more this wouldn't be an issue, I mean it is kind of like blaming McD's for americans getting fat.

Yep. We need more Spirit, not more clothing. But isn't it typical; we ask "is this sin", someone says "yes" and we decide to combat it with clothes, discipline, cencorship, morality, threats, warnings, christian alternatives, rules and so forth.

Why don't we do like God and meet sin with grace for once?

 

[CharAznable]

Ok then, how much cleavage is too much then?

I ask this, because as we speak about modesty, we must remember that we are to give God our best at all times. Yes men will lust regardless, but isn't no cleavage better than some? Considering we are giving God our firstfruits, we are loving Him with all of our mind, heart, soul, strength?

 

[AutumnDreamer]

Dear AutumnDreamer


When I read this I could only wonder what it must be like to be a woman:



" What we need to remember is that men can lust over a woman covered from head to toe just as easily as a woman that is wearing a bikini. "



Men have something that's automatic but I won't go into that.


What pleases the eye more?

1. Two gorgeous flowers totally covered by leaves?

2. Two gorgeous flowers only partly covered by leaves?

The reason I used FLOWERS is I understand women LOVE flowers!


I hope this might bring understanding what us poor, weak, automatic men we are. Sometimes we have to bite STEEL just to keep from SIN.

PLEASE HAVE MERCY ON US!!!


WITH A SMILE LET US ALL REMEMBER:



XEven though you can't see Him, GOD is there!O
( click on the X and move to the O ) ( then feel who is around you ) steven

Do some research, you will find that to be true, am I saying that women covered from head to toe are more tempting? no, simply that men lust not b/c of the clothes women wear but b/c they are men.

 

[AutumnDreamer]

Ok then, how much cleavage is too much then?

again this is something that has to be worked out by the person. The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts us of what we are doing, whether we are listening or not is up to us.

 

[CharAznable]

again this is something that has to be worked out by the person. The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts us of what we are doing, whether we are listening or not is up to us.

I'm sorry, I edited my post after you responded. Can you respond to my edit?

 

[AutumnDreamer]

Ok then, how much cleavage is too much then?

I ask this, because as we speak about modesty, we must remember that we are to give God our best at all times. Yes men will lust regardless, but isn't no cleavage better than some? Considering we are giving God our firstfruits, we are loving Him with all of our mind, heart, soul, strength?

Yes we are to think of Him first, the answer is the same though, people definition of modesty is different, some people think you are only modestly dressed if you wear a skirt to your ankle and a shirt from your chin to your wrist. Where as others think anything more then a bikini is modest. So who's definition of modesty do we go by? We have to let the Holy Spirit lead us. Seriously when I wear the undergarment that my husband would prefer me to wear it is impossible for me not to show cleavage unless I am wearing a shirt up to my neck(which he also doesn't like) so I do show some cleavage. I do not feel convicted by this. However I do feel convicted by wearing short skirts which my husbadn would also like to see me wear, but he respects my conviction and doesn't ask me to. The bible tells us to dress modestly, but isn't clear what modest specifically is so we have to rely on the Holy Spirit.

 

[CharAznable]

Yes we are to think of Him first, the answer is the same though, people definition of modesty is different, some people think you are only modestly dressed if you wear a skirt to your ankle and a shirt from your chin to your wrist. Where as others think anything more then a bikini is modest. So who's definition of modesty do we go by? We have to let the Holy Spirit lead us. Seriously when I wear the undergarment that my husband would prefer me to wear it is impossible for me not to show cleavage unless I am wearing a shirt up to my neck(which he also doesn't like) so I do show some cleavage. I do not feel convicted by this. However I do feel convicted by wearing short skirts which my husbadn would also like to see me wear, but he respects my conviction and doesn't ask me to. The bible tells us to dress modestly, but isn't clear what modest specifically is so we have to rely on the Holy Spirit.

Maybe you didn't understand what I was getting at, but isn't showing no cleavage more modest than some cleavage?

I understand that each human being makes his/her own "standard" and say "Yes, I've met my standard. This is modest." But isn't God's standard more important than our own? While he didn't specifiy what modestly necessarily is, His standard for anything is our firstfruits, correct?

Wouldn't it be fair to say that no cleavage is more modest than some cleavage? If so, then shouldn't we be doing our best for God?

 

[AutumnDreamer]

Maybe you didn't understand what I was getting at, but isn't showing no cleavage more modest than some cleavage?

depends on you definition of modest. Just b/c you are showing no cleavage doesn't mena you are dressing modestly. I mean a girl in a tight t shirt that accentuates her boob can look less modest then someone showing a little cleavage.

I understand that each human being makes his/her own "standard" and say "Yes, I've met my standard. This is modest." But isn't God's standard more important than our own? While he didn't specifiy what modestly necessarily is, His standard for anything is our firstfruits, correct?

I don't make my own standard, I allow God and the Holy Spirit to do that by convicting me. I am not sure how you are attributing this to "first fruits"

[/quote]shouldn't we be doing our best for God?[/quote]

absolutely, I just don't see how dressing by someone else's standard of modesty is giving God my best. I dress pretty modest, I do show a bit a cleavage due to the way God created me, but that is in no way holding back my best. In fact dressing in a way that lifts my spirits, makes my husband desire me, and makes me conmfortable allows me to give God my best.

 

[Dylan_Chica]

if a man can't help but look, that's his problem, not yours.

 

[dan888]

i wouldn't do it, just to be on the safe side...cuz then people might see where you hide your money.

 

[CharAznable]

depends on you definition of modest. Just b/c you are showing no cleavage doesn't mena you are dressing modestly. I mean a girl in a tight t shirt that accentuates her boob can look less modest then someone showing a little cleavage.

Ok, I still think you are misunderstanding me. Let's try things this way.

You are looking at two shirts in a store. They are the same color, same size, same length, same everything except, one shows some cleavage, the other shows no cleavage. Let's assume these shirts are not tight, but are rather loose. Which one is the more modest clothing?

I don't make my own standard, I allow God and the Holy Spirit to do that by convicting me. I am not sure how you are attributing this to "first fruits"

I'm not trying to say that you specifically are making your own standards, I'm just saying that we as human being have our own standards for everything. For example, someone may look at a person who is loving, does community service, takes care of their children and say that person is a good person. According to God, that person isn't good, he/she has sinned at least one, he is not righteous, there is none good except God alone. That's all I meant by the standards issue.

The reason I mentioned firstfruits is because we are to always be seeking and finding new ways to please God. Some of us don't take a proactive search, we just expect to sleep all day and then God to just tell us everything in one day. However, we should be doing everything in our power to please God.

absolutely, I just don't see how dressing by someone else's standard of modesty is giving God my best. I dress pretty modest, I do show a bit a cleavage due to the way God created me, but that is in no way holding back my best. In fact dressing in a way that lifts my spirits, makes my husband desire me, and makes me conmfortable allows me to give God my best.

But then the next question would be, "Could you wear a shirt under your blouse/outerwear". Can you say that you honestly doing your best? Is there another remedy for your situation? Also, is your "comfort" all that important here? I could be "comfortable" sitting home, eating pizza, watching the game while the homeless guy outside wants some food and I ignore him. Did I really give God my best in this situation? My spirits are definately lifted when I am happy, but could God somehow work on my spirit to change me so that I can go to the next level of his service, whilst maintaining comfort?

This is what I'm getting at. I'm not trying to single you out, I hope it doesn't look that way. This is for everyone including myself. I can say "I do this pretty well", but do we? Are we always giving our best in the situation? Sometimes doing so involves us stepping out of our comfort zone and doing things that don't make us pleasurable or popular.

 

[AutumnDreamer]

Ok, I still think you are misunderstanding me. Let's try things this way.

You are looking at two shirts in a store. They are the same color, same size, same length, same everything except, one shows some cleavage, the other shows no cleavage. Let's assume these shirts are not tight, but are rather loose. Which one is the more modest clothing?

Depends on who wear them and how they fit that particular person, Me for instance it would depend how high the neckline comes if it is too high for my comfort then I will choose to show some cleavage. Yes the high collar one would technically more modest but at what cost? I for example have physical problems if my shirt is too high in the neck, this is why I can not wear turtlenecks.

The reason I mentioned firstfruits is because we are to always be seeking and finding new ways to please God. Some of us don't take a proactive search, we just expect to sleep all day and then God to just tell us everything in one day. However, we should be doing everything in our power to please God.

I absolutely agree, and when we are not pleaseing God He lets us know through our convictions.

But then the next question would be, "Could you wear a shirt under your blouse/outerwear". Can you say that you honestly doing your best? Is there another remedy for your situation?

Yes, and quite often I do, however I still show some cleavage, even with a tank top under my blouse.

Also, is your "comfort" all that important here? I could be "comfortable" sitting home, eating pizza, watching the game while the homeless guy outside wants some food and I ignore him. Did I really give God my best in this situation? My spirits are definately lifted when I am happy, but could God somehow work on my spirit to change me so that I can go to the next level of his service, whilst maintaining comfort?

yes, my comfort is important, not only to me but to God. I have asthma. Quite often if clothing is too restrictive, or too high in the collar this can give me a feeling like I am strangling which in turns stimulates an asthma attack. I really don't think you can compare wearing clothesthat are comfortable to go out and do things, with staying at home doing nothing. But for the sake of arguement ok. Is sitting at home eating a pizza and watching Tv a sin? No, unless God has told you to do otherwise and you are not doing it. but again it is a matter of your heart.

This is what I'm getting at. I'm not trying to single you out, I hope it doesn't look that way. This is for everyone including myself. I can say "I do this pretty well", but do we? Are we always giving our best in the situation? Sometimes doing so involves us stepping out of our comfort zone and doing things that don't make us pleasurable or popular.

Don't worry about singling me out, I like to talk from my perspective b/c that is the only one I am sure of . Yes sometimes God takes us out of our comfort zone, and the way I dress now is a result of that. I used to dress very modest according to some definition, of course that also kept me from leaving my house all the time, it also kept me lodged in a state of depression, it wasn't until God brought me out of that, that I started to dress differently and even then it was out of my comfort zone and I had to rely on submitting to my husband to change, I do not my any stretch of the imagination dress provacitively, but I do dress less modestly then some would think b/c I do show some cleavage.

 

[Dylan_Chica]

if you didn't do nothing to get his attention then it's his fault for getting those thoughts and not yours, that's what i believe

 

[AutumnDreamer]

if you didn't do nothing to get his attention then it's his fault for getting those thoughts and not yours, that's what i believe

What are you talking about?

 

[Dylan_Chica]

uh... if a man looks at a woman's cleavage and gets undecent thoughts then that's something he should work on, a woman shouldn't have to hide her body just so a man will think "cleaner"... clear enough for ya?

 

[AutumnDreamer]

uh... if a man looks at a woman's cleavage and gets undecent thoughts then that's something he should work on, a woman shouldn't have to hide her body just so a man will think "cleaner"... clear enough for ya?

Yes thank you, I quite agree. I just wasn't sure if you were responding to me or something else.

 

[millerrod]

Jacquidube your photo has now had 10002 views lol!