Is Showing Cleavage Immodest? What Does the Bible Say?

[vanillabean]

You've made a good point- a lot of people no longer have enough sense to feel uncomfortable when they are exposing their bodies. That is why we also institute the collarbone rule, it helps the judgements to be a little more black and white for those with a broken moral compass. If I remember correctly, both Adam and Eve covered their bodies shortly after recognizing sin, and that trend has been continued for quite some time. The problem is not specifically a little bit of cleavage, it's that if you let a little bit go at a time, you eventually have nothing left.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

The problem is not specifically a little bit of cleavage, it's that if you let a little bit go at a time, you eventually have nothing left.

Perfectly said! Reminds me of my coursin. Her mother had her wear "cute" outfits as a kid. As she reached 12 she started wearing outfits that were a bit more...loose. By 16 she was pretty skimpy clothes. Not at 19 she wears G-String looking shorts and a tiny bra/shirt looking thing and everything on her is hanging out (mind you shes very big chested).

 

[Avniel]

You've made a good point- a lot of people no longer have enough sense to feel uncomfortable when they are exposing their bodies. That is why we also institute the collarbone rule, it helps the judgements to be a little more black and white for those with a broken moral compass. If I remember correctly, both Adam and Eve covered their bodies shortly after recognizing sin, and that trend has been continued for quite some time. The problem is not specifically a little bit of cleavage, it's that if you let a little bit go at a time, you eventually have nothing left.

What, that's a bit extreme. So you are saying all women who show cleavage eventually will expose all of themself?? That is utterly absurd. The fact is showing cleavage is not exposing your body....If that is the case your pinky law would allow those with longer pinky's to expose their bodies. I think it's kind of ridiculous.

You do contradict yourself from the collarbone to the pinky is cleavage. Then you go onto say that if you give a little then eventually you will have nothing left.

As far as the moral compass goes I think a normal person understands when to wear what. I hope you wouldn't go to a tropical beach with long selves and wool pants.

Then this bring me to the other question, you think that there is reasons for people to feel uncomfortable in the house of God? See that is not Christianity that is man made religion it does not come from God. My moral compass comes from Him not man.

Do you know that there are society's in places of the world that are yet modern and their women walk around topless. On all of these documents I have yet to see the men staring at these women's breasts. What of the art student that is more worried about having good grades in his class then the size of breasts his naked model has.

The reality is its just a human body. The western society is so overly sexed that anything that has to do with the human body has been shunned as negative, especially by the church. Their are church members that have fought against sex education in high schools and claim biblical references the fact is the bible teaches us "A fool abhors knowledge.."

The human body is just that.....it is a body women have breasts men have chests. Women's breasts produce milk men's breasts do not. Women have more fatty tissue on their breasts men have more muscular tissue.

SO WHAT!!!

"Her Cleavage is out oh my goodness"

People need to start worrying about their spiritual cleavage because a lot of the time that is showing ten times more then the skin.

 

[Avniel]

Oh yeah when I go to the park and play basketball its normally with my shirt off. When I jog its normally with my shirt off, when I'm in the gym its normally with my shirt off...........Is that a sin as well?

 

[Avniel]

Perfectly said! Reminds me of my coursin. Her mother had her wear "cute" outfits as a kid. As she reached 12 she started wearing outfits that were a bit more...loose. By 16 she was pretty skimpy clothes. Not at 19 she wears G-String looking shorts and a tiny bra/shirt looking thing and everything on her is hanging out (mind you shes very big chested).

But at the same time I know women that show their cleavage and never wear anything like tiny shorts or have anything hanging out.

 

[XSpiritualX]

Oh yeah when I go to the park and play basketball its normally with my shirt off. When I jog its normally with my shirt off, when I'm in the gym its normally with my shirt off...........Is that a sin as well?

Oh you're just to be yearned for aren't you?

 

[day time]

Finally some cleavage in a thread about cleavage :~)

 

[Nienna_Lady_of_Tears]

How come I have seen women who never have that problem? Answer, because they dress like a lady and not a cheap exposing harlot.

Buy new clothing if you got that problem. Simple as that. Unless of course you have some sort of weird liking to guys looking down there?

God bless.

Let's see. Dress shirts for work. Often women's dress shirts don't have a button near the collarbone. Also, I'm shorter from my shoulders to my bust than most women. A shirt made for women to be modest may be immodest on me because of this very reason. I try my hardest but sometimes, if I am actually going to dress in women's clothing, I can't win. I do however try to have my husband look and see if he can see anything looking down. If he can't, it passes.

 

[Avniel]

Oh you're just to be yearned for aren't you?

HEEEEEEY!! I stay active my father is obese and he ran track on scholarship so I just never want to get to that point. So yeah I stay in fit me and my wife work out and I do basketball on saturday two weeks out of the month and I go to the gym and practice my muy thai and boxing plus lift weights three days out the week. I just don't wanna be a fat 40 year old man high blood pressure and diabetes runs through my family so I want to stay in shape.

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

lool

 

[ArizonaSister]

It can lead to sin. It provoked and distracts. Its actually distasteful to purposely expose yourself with the HEART full of intentions to send out the message, "look at me". Many times, wopmen are unaware or insecure. This is why we should consider not just our attire, but our intentions. - it is obviously not a sin to shower naked, but if we shower naked with the windows wide open.... Lol. Men are visual..more visual then women. But cleavage distracts women too...so do muscle shirts on a man and so on.

Sin? No. Leading to sin? Strong yes. But more importantly, What would Jesus Do? Well, ooops, he wouldn't have that issue....lol, but seriously, we most show more love to those of ignorance, and not beat them down to the point of condemnation.

 

[wayfaring man]

The female body is a very beautiful, powerful thing!

Yet, it exponentially pales in comparison to the power, beauty, and durability of a truly spiritual mind.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. <-----> Romans 8:5+6

Nevertheless, being considerate of others, even those who are weak, (to a point), is good and fitting in The Lord !

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. <-----> Romans 14:1

That is to say - everyone shouldn't be strictly governed by the fears and fetishes of others.

wm

 

[ArizonaSister]

Yet, it exponentially pales in comparison to the power, beauty, and durability of a truly spiritual mind.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. <-----> Romans 8:5+6

Nevertheless, being considerate of others, even those who are weak, is good and fitting in The Lord !

wm

WELL SAID. AMEN!

 

[znr]

Person A considers their response to be sinful, but person A's response is subjective. Person B does not consider their response to be sinful, but person B's response is also subjective. Pretty much what you said, only far more eloquently, plus you have more patience than most.

It seems like such a common sense issue (anyway) given that there is no objective way of defining what is "sin" in this case.

In order to determine whether or not cleavage is a sin we have to determine and define sin as it applies to everyone. That seems twisted and ungodly. But it seems to be what some people do anyway.

IMO There just have to be more productive questions than "is cleavage sin"!

Don't think it's a joke.

It's a mutual effort of sorting out which is which and what is what.

Merely having some skin showing in the light of day, for comfort or health reasons (moderate sunlight on skin is healthy), is not sinful.
If someone finds it tempting or offensive, it's considerate to adjust for that...to a point, for it's also considerate for the person bothered to focus elsewhere...if they cannot bear the sight well.

It's not like one side of an issue deserves all the consideration, at the expense of the other's liberty...unless that person chooses to sacrifice their liberty...then that's their prerogative.

But if/when someone is obviously weak, and someone taunts or teases them in a seductive/mocking/belittling manner - then that speaks of a serious lack of love and respect.

But if natural attraction is inherently problematic "covering up" may serve as a "band aid", but the real healing has to come with learning how to deal well with temptation, by becoming spiritually minded enough that the temptation no longer has any pull.

Being tempted isn't a sin, it only becomes a sin if we go along with the temptation.

I'm reminded of a saying, "What if they declared a war, and nobody showed up ?"

Well along that line - "What if a woman had her cleavage showing, and no one bothered to look, or thought anything of it ?"

Sometimes hiding things even adds to the allure by fostering a "curiosity for the secretive".

Each and every situation is somewhat unique, which is why being spontaneously led by The Spirit is so much better than simply following generalized rules/laws.

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. <-----> Galatians 3:21

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. <-----> Galatians 5:16-18

...The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. <-----> Galatians 5:22-26

May The Lord Be Magnified !

wm

 

[3rdHeaven]

A little cleavage is not a sin! Too much would be questionable!

What is not a sin and IMO should be a sin are plumbers who show their butt cleavage when at work!

 

[znr]

A little cleavage is not a sin! Too much would be questionable!

What is not a sin and IMO should be a sin are plumbers who show their butt cleavage when at work!

Your reply contains a bit too much common sense.

Plus you brought up the whole bizzare phenomena that happens with most plumbers.

 

[Avniel]

Your reply contains a bit too much common sense.

Plus you brought up the whole bizzare phenomena that happens with most plumbers.

That is all I have been saying there is too much and there is in the middle. But just to add to what you guys were saying there is also culturally acceptable.

Like I said there are places in the Amazon where women are supposed to be shirtless. In these places being shirtless is not seen as being sexual in any way. To even further this thought, I am Jamaican by heritage really a first generation of American(But i know more about the Jamaican cultural then the american culture so I consider myself Jamaican), and during a trip me and my wife went to Jamaica to visit my great aunt who is very old(90+ years).....So we get invited to go to a church event on the beach, I actually put some money up to take the kids in the church out it was cheap to me but to them it was a day to get away. At first my wife put on something very very conservative for the beach, it wasn't until she saw what the other women(older) in my family were wearing that she changed into something more comfortable for the beach.

What she noticed was that people at the beach pay her or any of the other women no mind at all. She actually was surprised because at her home church the teenage boys would have gawked at her. The fact was that she was dressed for the beach and it would take something more revealing in Jamaica to earn lustful eyes then it would in America.

When we went to a water park with her home church she dressed entirely different. Not only did she but instead of going shirtless I had a tank top on and was extremely conservative. This was a southern church so I can understand.

What many people in this conversation aren't understanding....Dressing moderately isn't just about cleavage its about social norms and what is socially acceptable at a present time. To someone that is Jamaican, Puerto Rican, Haitian or even Cuban moderately means something entirely different.


If both men and women were topless in everyday life then I doubt seeing a pair of breasts would turn anyone's head

 

[znr]

That is all I have been saying there is too much and there is in the middle. But just to add to what you guys were saying there is also culturally acceptable.

Like I said there are places in the Amazon where women are supposed to be shirtless. In these places being shirtless is not seen as being sexual in any way. To even further this thought, I am Jamaican by heritage really a first generation of American(But i know more about the Jamaican cultural then the american culture so I consider myself Jamaican), and during a trip me and my wife went to Jamaica to visit my great aunt who is very old(90+ years).....So we get invited to go to a church event on the beach, I actually put some money up to take the kids in the church out it was cheap to me but to them it was a day to get away. At first my wife put on something very very conservative for the beach, it wasn't until she saw what the other women(older) in my family were wearing that she changed into something more comfortable for the beach.

What she noticed was that people at the beach pay her or any of the other women no mind at all. She actually was surprised because at her home church the teenage boys would have gawked at her. The fact was that she was dressed for the beach and it would take something more revealing in Jamaica to earn lustful eyes then it would in America.

When we went to a water park with her home church she dressed entirely different. Not only did she but instead of going shirtless I had a tank top on and was extremely conservative. This was a southern church so I can understand.

What many people in this conversation aren't understanding....Dressing moderately isn't just about cleavage its about social norms and what is socially acceptable at a present time. To someone that is Jamaican, Puerto Rican, Haitian or even Cuban moderately means something entirely different.

If both men and women were topless in everyday life then I doubt seeing a pair of breasts would turn anyone's head

Thanks for writing that all out, Avniel

Gosh, Americans seem to be more tending toward perversion...I mean, that's what I draw from my own observations. I wouldn't dare accuse a naked African of being sinful or causing me to stumble. I wouldn't accuse a nake American of being sinful either. There would have to be more than just nudity as a consideration.

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

in America if someone sees a pair of naked breasts on their television set they flip out and start spitting up and trying to censor everything. . . damn soccer-moms loolz.
While I was living in Europe nobody was like that. Heck there were even television ads with blatant nudity in them and nobody gave a crap.
I think the whole sin thing is just a thing twisted by human stupidity. Nobody set any boundary for what true modesty is in the Bible. What is considered disgusting here is acceptable somewhere else in the world.
So frankly, to sum it all up in a nutshell, I don't give a crap because it isn't really that big of a deal. There are much more important things to talk about that cleavage showing loolz. The fact that people are still talking about this in a 26 page thread still baffles me, though.

 

[Asvin]

You can also look at it this way.. If showing "some" (How much is "some" anyway?) cleavage is okay based on the social norm or culture where you are living, then how about all the christian tourists? I was born in India and the last thing you will see in a beach is an INDIAN WOMAN wearing anything closely resembling a bikini. Men are also conservative in the way they dress... When such people, not just Indians but Arabs and several other conservatively clothed people visit the United States, and they are Christian, isn't it a sin to be showing cleavage? There are millions of immigrants here in the US that are very conservative when it comes to dressing and can easily fall into sin, such as rape, fornication, or lusting after one's wife!

Bottom line is, Why show cleavage at all? Shouldn't we all try to be like Christ? If God came down here in the form of a woman, do you think she would show the slightest of cleavage?