Is Selfishness Wrong?

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

deleted

 

[HeyHomie]

Selfishness is bad when you do something without any consideration to how it affects other people. For example, if I drink all the milk and so my wife can't have her cereal before work, that's selfish.

When selfishness doesn't affect other people, then it's not bad. Not having a child doesn't affect anyone else (or at least, it shouldn't), so it's not selfish.

 

[RunnerGirl]

Ha! I get what your saying Sascha! I think it's right on. I know soooo many couples who have had children and whose marriages have suffered as a direct result. Many marriages will never recover. (Other marriages may be strengthened by the presence of kids, but that's actually the minority case). Seeing how marriage is a very important thing, especially in the eyes of Christians, more people should consider how "being selfish" and not having children could protect and save their marriages and those of others, before they jump to the conclusion that "selfish" is bad.

 

[fuzzymel]

So many people who have kids to save marriages end up with it worse than they started. In my opinion it is more selfish because if something is broken then a baby sure wont fix it.

The selfish thing does bother me because every single person is selfish in some way. Even if it was selfish to not have kids it does not make parents unselfish.

 

[Rebekka]

The selfish thing does bother me because every single person is selfish in some way. Even if it was selfish to not have kids it does not make parents unselfish.

Well said!!!

I don't get the selfish bingo, really. (To Sascha: we call a bingo something judgmental that is said to us over and over again, so much that childfrees have put them on a bingo card - HeyHomie has won our bingo game, I believe. The bingo "being childfree is selfish" is one of the most common ones, and the nastiest in my opinion.) I mean, why is selfishness wrong when it comes to children, but alright when it comes to jobs (the higher your pay, the better, in most people's eyes - not mine actually), vacations (people show off to their friends and neighbours, the further away from home the better), houses (it's almost a sin not to have a mortgage in my circles - higher educated youngish people - and if you rent, like us, you're a loser), cars, children (if you want children, it's alright to do anything to conceive, and not seen as selfish at all, even though it is just as much following your desire as being childfree is for us), you name it!

Anything but not wanting children. All of a sudden, people who are just as selfish as I am call me selfish because my wish is to remain childless while theirs is to own a minivan and have three kids.

I agree with HeyHomie: if it hurts other people, selfishness is bad. We need a bit of selfishness to get ahead in life: we want to earn a living, so that's why we go to work. If a certain job pays more and is more pleasant than a very simple, physically very heavy and low-paying job, then we will try to get that better job (if necessary, we'll go to college for it), and no one will call us selfish - even if the other job would have kept us alive as well.

I don't see the moral merit of going to the movies, or buying a cd, but nobody calls that selfish. Yet deciding that you don't want to have a child because there is no desire in you to become a parent, that is selfish. It doesn't hurt anyone, it's none of other people's business, but it is selfish.

 

[snoochface]

I've said stuff like this a lot lately, so I may as well say it here too

The selfish argument is ridiculous to me. So if I don't have a kid, I'm selfish. But if a parent has a kid, and they buy a new car for no other reason than they want one, are they selfish? Do they get "selfish credits" because they have a kid and "deserve" a new car?

Do I get selfish credits because I work for free two days a week for my church and I deserve to get these selfish-mongers off my back?

I mean, who is it hurting that I don't want a kid? Who is it hurting that I don't want broccoli for dinner tonight? A want is a want, isn't it? When does a "want" cross over into a "selfishness"?

I'm tired and rambling, sorry, I probably should have just subbed to the thread and re-visited it with coherent thoughts tomorrow.

 

[invisiblebabe]

Hey Sascha! I didn't know you are childfree... welcome!

In response to your post, I believe that the unspoken implication in one of the greatest commandments, "Love your neighbor as yourself," is that we must first be able and willing to love ourselves, if we are truly capable of loving our neighbors. Loving ourselves means providing the things we need, to the best of our ability.

True selfishness is at the expense of others... and you can't be selfish at the expense of people who don't exist! I think it is more selfish to have a child if you truly do not believe you are capable of parenting one (including being capable of all the sacrifices necessary).

 

[Rebekka]

Also, if not having a child because you don't want children is selfish because you do what you want, then having a child because you do want one is just as selfish, because then you do what you want, too. But no one condemns others for wanting children.

And indeed, the fact that you don't have kids doesn't make you more selfish in other departments: I mean, who says that a childfree person doesn't take care of his sick parents? People can be selfish in all sorts of things, and being a parent doesn't make you unselfish in non-parenting departments.
My sister-in-law (who is by no means a stereotypical parent so this isn't something about parents in general, just one example) is far more selfish than I am, but she has two children. She may sacrifice herself for her children somewhat (although she has a good way of hiding it), but she will never do anything for other people - rather she expects others to do things for her.

I'm quite the opposite, but my not having kids makes me selfish, right?

 

[Chan1976]

I have been called selfish for wanting to put off kids until I finish my degree and find myself a job. My husband is in 100% agreement with me (we also want some couple-only time together before kids). I agree with the above posts; how does making a decision that only concerns the 2 of us in anyway selfish? Who am I being selfish to? If I already have a child and I ignore his/her needs because I'm more concerned about myself, then I can understand being called selfish, but the child in question doesn't even exist .

People can be selfish in all sorts of things, and being a parent doesn't make you unselfish in non-parenting departments.
.

I actually know some people like your sister-in-law. The world consists of only them, their spouses and kids, and any one else is basically none of their concern and others can drop off the face of the earth for all they care.

 

[jcservant]

self·ish
–adjective 1.devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

A selfish act is a sinful act, regardless of the circumstances. In relation to the topic of deciding to have, or not have a kid, the same rule applies. If you are making the decision for selfish reasons, it is wrong, regardless of what decision it is.

The Bible, for example, talks about how it is good for a person not to marry if they are going to devote themselves to the Lord's work. This would be a selfless decision. However, a man could decide not to marry because he likes the idea of being free to sleep with whomever he wants with no consequence. That would be sinful and wrong in anyone's books.

I've decided not to have a child because, quite frankly, my wife does not want one. To force my wife to have something she does not want would certainly be selfish. I can also use the extra time to serve God in ministry. So, I know that my decision is not sinful.

However, if I decided, with my wife, that we were not going to have one so that we could kick back and enjoy the 'good things of life' (Together, we make more money than we need to live comfortably), without cause or concern for our fellow man... that would be wrong.

For most Christians, your desires are destinations given by God. Most women who are great parents knew many years ago that they really wanted to have children. If they do not have that burning desire, it is very possible that it is not a destination that God has in plan for that woman. Remember, there's a lot of time, energy, resources and money that are poured into raising even just one child. Those resources and (and the couples' talents) may be better utlized serving the Lord in capacities other than child raising. If you do not have a calling to have and raise a child, prayerfully consider where your desire do lie... and use those as a guide to determine how to be serve the Lord with your life. By doing so, you insure that you are making the right decision for the right reasons... and are doing right in His eyes.

 

[fuzzymel]

Your post is so good I am going to borrow some of it next time I get the selfish bingo!

 

[Mskedi]

Nah... the selfish argument doesn't work on me. I'm a teacher -- I'm teaching 200 kids a day. If I only were taking care of, say, 4 I'd be selfish.

 

[lin1235]

I don't see how being childfree is selfish at all. I mean, whose interests should you rather take into account? Your unborn children that you will never have? The community, who will never get to meet the children you'll never have? Honestly, I don't get it.

Besides, I think having or not having kids MUST be a selfish choice. You're SUPPOSED to choose based on your own needs and desires. Can you imagine a life where you have kids despite not wanting them, because others expect you to, or never have kids despite desperately wanting them because you're not supposed to?

 

[mina]

I don't think any of what you mentioned in your OP is selfish. How is it selfish to anyone?
I think it's far more "selfish" to bring a child into the world when you can't take care of it or if you don't want it. All children deserve to be loved and wanted. If you don't want any, it's not selfish to not have them- it's called being responsible. B/c you don't have a child, your time and money can go to whatever you want it to. People telling you that you are selfish is actually kind of selfish in itself. disrespectful things like this tick me off!!! grrr

 

[jcservant]

I disagree with only one minor point on the above posts. You *can* have a child for selfless reasons, more or less.

For example, when I was single, I felt that my life was complete in God. However, I yearned to share my love, life and energy with another. I wanted to share my life in a way, and on a level, that could only be reach through a lifelong commitment. And while I certainly had a few selfish motivations (I did not like being lonely), God knows that I gave those fears up to Him beforehand. All that was left was my desire to love. In fact, I had decided that if I never found a wife to make my desire to love complete, I would simply love others in the best manner possible (giving of myself to community, strangers, etc).

As it turns out God gave me a wife.

Now, if our love in our relationship was complete, in God, and we also had a desire to share that love on a profound, intimate level with another(s), having a kid would be a great, selfless option. Adopting a kid would also be an awesome idea. However, because of a number of reasons, we do not feel this is the best way for us to serve God. Personally, I feel called to work in a ministry, whilst I work full time. That's very hard to do with a child or two in the family. My wife has another calling.

A great example of having a child for selfless reasons would be when God decided to have us. He was complete, in and of himself, while being totally selfless and perfect. Out of his pure love, he created us. He decided to share that love to another... and hence, a selfless decision to create was made.

By His Grace,
JCServant

 

[mina]

I do agree that it's possible for people to have children and be selfless. And some people do that. I 'm single (not by choice) and when i do get married I want children and will be committed to raising them. Basically b/c I love children and i want to share my life with my own (natural or adopted) and with my spouse. But if someone decides they don't want to share their life with children it doesn't make them selfish.

 

[TankGirl]

I have always said that our decision to only have one child had an element of selfishness about it. However, on reflection, I think I prefer to consider it "self-awareness".

We know that our lives are a mix of rushing about madly, and crashing in a lazy heap doing nothing. We like to travel & do lots of different things, and we like to relax in peace. We also love each other deeply, and value time alone together very highly.

Having one child enables us to balance being parents, and all the blessings that brings, while allowing us to manage our lives with some degree of ease & have couple time, too. Perhaps that is selfish, but I'm gonna call it self-aware from now on

 

[RoseofLima]

My take on it is that selflessness ought to be the goal of everyone- and that can be done with or without children in the picture. In some ways not having children frees one up to live a much more radicaly selfless life- particularly towards those who are in greatest need in the world.

I never desired to have a child- but I think overall I am on the better end of the parenting spectrum--so I don't know that desires are necessarily an indication of God's desires, we are often wounded and broken and make choices out of that brokeness rather than out wholeness. We also have lots of time together as a couple- despite having a gaggle of children---but it is true that it is certainly NOT the same kind of time we'd spend together without kids in the picture. It's good- it's just different.

I don't think it's right to judge or jusitify selfishness by looking at choices other people make. We all just need to do the best we can to further the Kingdom and to seek personal holiness- however that might be.

 

[Rebekka]

I don't think it's right to judge or jusitify selfishness by looking at choices other people make. We all just need to do the best we can to further the Kingdom and to seek personal holiness- however that might be.

Yes, (constantly) comparing yourself to others is often not helpful. It may lead to either jealousy, self-pity, or selfrighteousness. Also, we should try to lead a moral life - we should never act against our own conscience, even if other people told us we should behave a certain way. I can look inside my own heart, and God can, but other people can't see exactly why I'm doing or not doing certain things, and I can't see exactly why other people choose to do things the way they do.

 

[RoseofLima]

. I can look inside my own heart, and God can, but other people can't see exactly why I'm doing or not doing certain things, and I can't see exactly why other people choose to do things the way they do.

To me living that out is the key to living in humility--just doing our imperfect best and assuming that others are living doing their imperfect best as well. There are so many brokenesses, weaknesses, wounds and hurts from which we must choose to act- and we are all so unique and have such different paths--that all lead to God. Just because minw doesn't look like yours- surely doesn't make one better than the other...just different.