Is Saturday Sabbath Observance Essential?

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Oh yeah, there were some "ancient" authoritative texts that emerged from the Vatican vaults in the 14 or 1800s . Changed the whole game! BAM!

 

[masmpg]

Oh yeah, there were some "ancient" authoritative texts that emerged from the Vatican vaults in the 14 or 1800s . Changed the whole game! BAM!

Are you referring to the ones that had all the changes and errors all over them, like the codex sinaiticus which was found in a burn pile in a monastery in Sinai Egypt because of all the errors? The ones that westcott and hort used so they could change them more without getting caught?

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

I ain't right, am I ? Hey, it's laugh or cry.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Those AND the supposed "ancient" ones hidden in the vat basement SUPPOSEDLY for 1400 years that just showed up on the shelf, all back-dated, with the aged look. They had all the same stuff missing SO they must be authentic. Is it raining....?

 

[masmpg]

Those AND the supposed "ancient" ones hidden in the vat basement SUPPOSEDLY for 1400 years that just showed up on the shelf, all back-dated, with the aged look. They had all the same stuff missing SO they must be authentic. Is it raining....?

Yeah really "authentic" along with many mysterious document that "appeared" at opportune moments in RCC history.

 

[masmpg]

I ain't right, am I ? Hey, it's laugh or cry.

I weep all the time for God's dear children who are being deceived by all this type of propaganda.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Its sickening that the higher ups KNOW about the 70 weeks and all the truth. What they do is malicious. They actually THINK satan will win I guess. If you know the truth and still mislead, why else could you?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Its sickening that the higher ups KNOW about the 70 weeks and all the truth. What they do is malicious. They actually THINK satan will win I guess. If you know the truth and still mislead, why else could you?

I've often wondered that myself... I know in my dark times when my faith was weak, I thought that if I wasn't going to follow the Way, then I wasn't going to live life pretending to. Why would I pretend to keep any of the Commandments if I knew I was rejecting God.

Praise God He brought me out of my pit!

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

They are just the continuation of the rebellion in heaven. Twice dead, plucked up by the roots. Foaming- LOTS of foaming!

 

[masmpg]

What is hard for me to grasp is how the "nominal" churches treat the 70 weeks. They all agree that the 70 weeks refer to Jesus baptism and death, but yet they will take the last week and place it into the future as a reference point to know when the "rapture" will take place. Kind of a dual interpretation. At the end of the 70 weeks they believe that the jews will start animal sacrifices again, which is about to happen as a false forced fulfillment of that false prophecy. and that will start a 7 year countdown and after that Jesus will return to "rapture" His church. I use to follow all that nonsense. It is sad so many fall for it. In a different forum I tried to share truth about the second coming and they will hear non of it. They yell opinions about the rapture at me as I show from the bible what will really happen. I even broke down the 70 weeks and some of them agreed and liked that comment but still cannot see the ending or it. The vail is still unremoved from their heart so they will not understand. 2Corinthians:3:15: "But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away."

 

[dougangel]

We need to keep Paul's writings in perspective. What Paul writes about is spiritual. The SDA denomination has done a health study that has been ongoing for close to 40 years. This study has proven many things about health, the most revealing parts of this study relate to longevity. The vegetarian lives on average 10 years longer and the vegan lives 15 years longer. Longevity is not the only exciting point of this study, but quality of life is another point that cannot be denied. Of course one person who eats right will be stronger than one who does not. Notice that Paul was referring to "weak in the faith". Not in the body. To think that a starving person in africa can be as strong as a body builder who has a great diet are the same in regards to health????

As for those who esteem one day above another??? Again this has nothing to do with worship. Paul never mentions worship, sacred, anything of that nature in the verses he wrote in Romans:14:5&6: "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks." Some days we wake up and have a great day. Like John Denver stated "some days are diamonds, some days are stones." This context has nothing to do with worship. Just like eating has some but little to do with our relationship with God. Thought some foods will cloud our thinking they should not sever our relationship with Him.

1st Corinthians 9:19 - 22

19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel that I may share in its blessings.

Paul who is a Jew is not under the (Old Testament) law. But Paul is under Christs Laws. Or Paul is under New Testament laws. Anything that Paul wrote that contradicts this cannot be right as this is unmistakably plain and we can use this text as a platform for his other writings that are not so clear.

Romans 2:14

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Gentiles who do not have the law. (Old Testament law) and never will. They have the requirements of Christ’s law written on their hearts. This is an example, one of many, why Paul gets misunderstood because he is mentioning two laws just using the word law.

Romans 7:6

6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

We don’t serve in the old way of the written code. The law he is talking about must be Old Testament law. What is the new way of the spirit? Well of course its Christ and the spiritual way he teaches and how to approach his New Testament spiritual laws.

Romans 8:1-2 New International Version (NIV)

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

There is a law of the spirit.

Galations 6:2

2 Corinthians 3 New King James Version (NKJV)



7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

The ministry of death written and engraved on stones. Pretty strong stuff. Paul is talking about the 10 commandments here not just Levi or Mosaic law.

Galatians 3 New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

It does not mean now that faith has come we are no longer under any laws just faith. It’s obvious with the other texts I have shown that Paul is talking about Christian faith. Also this is why Paul confuses a lot of people. Because he talks about the two different laws without making this obvious. But we can be confident because of all the previous scriptures that mention the two laws.

Romans 4:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.

Here and in Hebrew 11 it’s states Abraham and the leaders of the Old Testament had faith. So Paul can’t mean faith as verb but as a noun. This is where Paul gets miss understood all the time. He uses faith and grace as Christian faith and Christian grace and he is also not specific in what law he is talking about often. This is because the word Christian although used was not popular or used often in the letters to the churches at that particular time in history. So verse 25 must mean after Christian faith had come we are no longer under a tutor that is the Mosaic Law. Mosaic Law was the tutor who paved the way for the Master Christ and Christianity.

Any other interpretation of this is a contradiction of 1st Corinthians 9:19 - 22



Romans 3 New King James Version (NKJV)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the(must mean OT) law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there Is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Do we make void obeying the Old Testament law through the Old Testament men of faith? No we establish and honour what the law and the prophets have done to bring us to law of faith that is, Christs commands.


Now let’s look at Hebrews. It’s good for a Christian to read Hebrews at least once and of course a lot of it is on this subject because the Old Testament law was so important to the Hebrews. The book of Hebrews is a General Epistle (Apostolic Letter). It was written mainly to the Hebrew believers. The author is anonymous, although either Paul or Barnabas was traditionally accepted as the author and are likely candidates or co writers but this is not proven. It was written approximately 67 A.D. Its purpose was to present the Lord Jesus Christ as perfect and superior in comparison to anything Judaism and the old covenant had to offer. The author was writing to a group of Christians who were under intense persecution and some were contemplating a return to Judaism. The writer admonished them not to turn away from their only hope of salvation.

A New Covenant Hebrews 8:

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

The last half a week. That's so it'll fit the fairey tales taught originally by Ribera or whatever his name is. Capt. Futurism . I'm amazed they accept the first 69 1/2 weeks for what it is. Didn't used to. I can bear witness to this: They all will eventually at the gathering, when there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. ALL the old testament prophecies that don't describe the first Advent point to the future event- The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord! Great for some, terrible for others. There be few that find it, so that alone "should" (there's that word again) lead one to reason that majority belief just may be wrong.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

The Mosaic law you speak of is the 613 ordinances, written by hand, NOT the ten commandments, written IN STONE by the finger of God. Those were nailed to the cross. The NIV is made to complement the deception as well.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

Please see my post in righteousness by faith. It all says the same thing: Following the Lamb, or not following, at a price. Old test or new. Makes ZERO difference . All the old testament prophets either spoke of the first Advent (about 1/3 or less) and the rest is about the second Advent. In my post, it's very clear that the unrighteous (either by faith OR action) will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. It has nothing to do with Mosaic law. It has to do with the commandments of God. You still cant steal, kill, adulterate , worship other gods (self included) and all that jazz no matter how much faith you claim you have. Do it and repent not......pay the price. Most protestants are "indoctrinated" into thinking they are bound by no limits and this is a lie. When Jesus forgave the adulteress about to be stoned, He told her that neither does He condemn her (sin forgiven) then He said go and sin no more. (law applied) .

 

[masmpg]

1st Corinthians 9:19 - 22

19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel that I may share in its blessings.

Paul who is a Jew is not under the (Old Testament) law. But Paul is under Christs Laws. Or Paul is under New Testament laws. Anything that Paul wrote that contradicts this cannot be right as this is unmistakably plain and we can use this text as a platform for his other writings that are not so clear.

Romans 2:14

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Gentiles who do not have the law. (Old Testament law) and never will. They have the requirements of Christ’s law written on their hearts. This is an example, one of many, why Paul gets misunderstood because he is mentioning two laws just using the word law.

Romans 7:6

6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

We don’t serve in the old way of the written code. The law he is talking about must be Old Testament law. What is the new way of the spirit? Well of course its Christ and the spiritual way he teaches and how to approach his New Testament spiritual laws.

Romans 8:1-2 New International Version (NIV)

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

There is a law of the spirit.

I understand what you are saying. The bible agrees on everything. Peter James and John's writings are more about sanctification and Paul wrote mostly about justification. Just because the law (ten commandments) is written in our hearts does not in any way do away with the law. Just because I broke the speed limit and got a ticket does not do away with the law. The law remains and must be obeyed not because we trying to earn salvation but because we do have salvation. We love God by obedience.

Quoting Romans 8:1 from the satanic counterfeit NIV does not prove anything. Half of that verse is missing. The rest of it states "who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit." This is the beginning of the Christian walk of sanctification, which Paul show the struggle we all go through before conversion in Romans 7. When he finally cries out in
Romans:7:24: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" This is when he realizes that he cannot save himself. It is not until he acknowledges Jesus that he is saved. Romans:7:25: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Hebrews is very important to all Christians because it defines what Jesus died for. He did not die to take away, or do away with the ten commandments. He died to put an end to the sacrificial services of killing and feast days.

One verse most people forget about is found in Romans:2:13: "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." Even though we are justified freely to remove any desire to boast about our works we still must obey God's laws out of love. Not to win salvation but because He freely gave it to us. Obedience is the fruit of faith not the access to salvation.

 

[masmpg]

The Mosaic law you speak of is the 613 ordinances, written by hand, NOT the ten commandments, written IN STONE by the finger of God. Those were nailed to the cross. The NIV is made to complement the deception as well.

The NIV is the worst satanic counterfeit there is especially the "new and improved" 2011 updated model which they deleted 17 verses and the words righteous, justify, sanctify, sanctuary, in all their forms. Those were just the words I casually looked up in that horrible deception.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

The NIV is the worst satanic counterfeit there is especially the "new and improved" 2011 updated model which they deleted 17 verses and the words righteous, justify, sanctify, sanctuary, in all their forms. Those were just the words I casually looked up in that horrible deception.

I loved the post about all the butchery in the "easy to read" models, which so many use the excuse for. Being a student of prophecy, I spent months in a NKJV and to me it's not worth nailing a catfish to either. It is full of misguided, misleading text that makes the WORD of much lesser value, of no value in some very important places. You can absolutely tell when you cross it with a KJV and a Strong's, the changes were intentional. The replacement words MUST cross to an acceptable translation and they aren't even close.

 

[masmpg]

I loved the post about all the butchery in the "easy to read" models, which so many use the excuse for. Being a student of prophecy, I spent months in a NKJV and to me it's not worth nailing a catfish to either. It is full of misguided, misleading text that makes the WORD of much lesser value, of no value in some very important places. You can absolutely tell when you cross it with a KJV and a Strong's, the changes were intentional. The replacement words MUST cross to an acceptable translation and they aren't even close.

I agree fully!
What is hard is trying to put up with the errors and updates of the strongs, which has changed definitions over the years. The old is much better when it comes to bible study. Unless we are fed the lies that the codex texts are older which they are not. We have to put our foot down somewhere. Our foundation has to be solid not sinking sand. Picking and choosing just does not fit into chain references, nor timeline prophecies. . . I could go on and on about translations. I have been researching them for 20 years and they just keep getting worse every time they "update" them. The KJV has its problems but it has served Christianity well for over 400 years and now Christianity is very obviously heading in all new and exciting different directions because someone had the great idea that God's word changes.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

The Strong's I use is a hardback with cloth cover like an old textbook and yellowed pages. Weighs about 10 lbs. Online, I've had decent luck with the blue letter study Bible with Strong's on .It's not as extensive as the YE OL BIG BOOK, especially doing my wife's Hebrew n Greek words, but it's not bad. I want to get a big margin KJV with bigger print. I've got an old big margin. It's huge, but I can barely read the print WITH my glasses. The paper isn't onionskin, so they had to make up for it somewhere. Less pages, teeny print.

 

[reddogs]

Where are we told that "Christ is our sabbath"?

You ask why SDAs keep the seventh day sabbath? The simple reason is that God told all His children to. Through a study of God's holy word the KJV bible we find that the forth commandment was instituted on the seventh day of creation when God hallowed the seventh day, then, as a blessing to His people He wrote His holy just and good law on stone with His finger, and to top it off He said in the forth commandment to "remember" the sabbath day to keep IT holy. He did not say to keep whatever day we choose holy. THE seventh day has been saturday since the name saturday has been used as a title for that day, and even before then. I have a document of that shows the seven days of the week in over 150 languages. A very small percentage of that document uses the word saturday or any kind of reference to saturn. MOST of them use the word sabbath in some form, like shabat, sabado, etc. To figure what day is the sabbath (the Lord's day) is a no brainer.

NOW! Many want to use Hebrews 4 to prove somehow that "Jesus is our sabbath". This is far from the truth. The sabbath of hebrews 4 is the heavenly canaan that we are heading for. If you notice that the author of Hebrews refers to entering into that rest lest we fall after the same example of unbelief. The Israelites had to wonder 40 years because of this unbelief which kept them out of the promised land. Many are falling after the same example of unbelief because they do not observed God's blessed, sanctified, and holy rest day, the seventh day sabbath. BUT Hebrews 4:9 uses the word sabbatismos (sp), derived from sabbaton, which means the seventh day sabbath rest. To say that the seventh day sabbath is not in the new testament shows a grave lack of study.

Nice..