Is Salvation instantenous or is it a process?

[BNR32FAN]

You provided scripture with no explanation, none of them said one falls from salvation, or lost salvation.

Sure they do. A person in Christ has salvation. A person who has been severed from Christ has lost his salvation. Your rejecting what the scriptures actually say in order to interpret them so that they may coincide with your doctrines instead of allowing the scriptures to define your doctrines.

 

[Brightfame52]

Sure they do. A person in Christ has salvation. A person who has been severed from Christ has lost his salvation. Your rejecting what the scriptures actually say in order to interpret them so that they may coincide with your doctrines instead of allowing the scriptures to define your doctrines.

Nothing about falling from salvation.

A person who has been severed from Christ has lost his salvation.

So what scripture says this ?

 

[d taylor]

Abrahams believed God and his faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Abraham believes Sarah would bear a child.
She did. Isaac was born.
When Isaac became a "young man" (at least 12) Abraham's faith was tested and after he passed the test Abraham was justified ... 12(?) years later.

Is salvation instantaneous or is it a process?

Some say the process starts way before we even realize there is God.

Thanks,
Ed

This should answer your question.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nothing about falling from salvation.



So what scripture says this ?

What scripture says what? That a person can be severed from Christ or that a person who has been severed from Christ has lost his salvation? I’m not sure what your asking. Galatians 5:4 says

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Can a person have salvation if they are severed from Christ and fallen from grace? Why would you think that this person never had salvation? What verse gives you this impression?

 

[Brightfame52]

What scripture says what? That a person can be severed from Christ or that a person who has been severed from Christ has lost his salvation? I’m not sure what your asking. Galatians 5:4 says

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Can a person have salvation if they are severed from Christ and fallen from grace? Why would you think that this person never had salvation? What verse gives you this impression?

What scripture says a person can fall from salvation, from being saved ?

 

[BNR32FAN]

What scripture says a person can fall from salvation, from being saved ?

Ive already answered this question. A person cannot be in Christ without having salvation.

 

[Brightfame52]

Ive already answered this question. A person cannot be in Christ without having salvation.

You answered it in your imagination, not with any scripture ! No scripture ever said that !

 

[BNR32FAN]

You answered it in your imagination, not with any scripture ! No scripture ever said that !

Wow why all the exclamation points? Why can’t this just be a friendly discussion? Can someone be in Christ without being saved?

 

[Aussie Pete]

Abrahams believed God and his faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Abraham believes Sarah would bear a child.
She did. Isaac was born.
When Isaac became a "young man" (at least 12) Abraham's faith was tested and after he passed the test Abraham was justified ... 12(?) years later.

Is salvation instantaneous or is it a process?

Some say the process starts way before we even realize there is God.

Thanks,
Ed

Both. There are two salvations. The first is instant, then the progressive that lasts a lifetime. I'm happy to elaborate if anyone is interested

 

[OSAS 101]

Abrahams believed God and his faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Abraham believes Sarah would bear a child.
She did. Isaac was born.
When Isaac became a "young man" (at least 12) Abraham's faith was tested and after he passed the test Abraham was justified ... 12(?) years later.

Is salvation instantaneous or is it a process?

Some say the process starts way before we even realize there is God.

Thanks,
Ed

It depends on how you look at it.
For me, I was instantaneously turned into a new person.
That new person is still me 36 years later.
Say what you will, but I believe God won't let go of me and I will be that new person forever.

 

[Aussie Pete]

It depends on how you look at it.
For me, I was instantaneously turned into a new person.
That new person is still me 36 years later.
Say what you will, but I believe God won't let go of me and I will be that new person forever.

Amen to that. That is the first salvation. The part of us that is born again is our spirit. It helps to think of "salvation" as deliverance. Our soul needs to be set free - Hebrews 12:1 and Romans 12:2. The salvation of our souls is a process - the goal of our faith - 1 Peter 1:9. If people could see this, the whole issue of OSAS or not would evaporate.

 

[Brightfame52]

Wow why all the exclamation points? Why can’t this just be a friendly discussion? Can someone be in Christ without being saved?

I dont see anything unfriendly about an exclamation point, in any case, a person is in Christ before the foundation of the world if theyre Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4. That said they are always saved eternally, but when born in time physically, they are lost , dead in sin like all sinners, but in due time God will save them from that spiritually lost state.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I dont see anything unfriendly about an exclamation point, in any case, a person is in Christ before the foundation of the world if theyre Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4. That said they are always saved eternally, but when born in time physically, they are lost , dead in sin like all sinners, but in due time God will save them from that spiritually lost state.

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3​

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)​

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)​

In fact, Paul is against Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved type belief. For Paul says,

1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
   
   
2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
   
   
4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
   
   
5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
   
   
6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).
   
   
7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
   
   
8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
   
   
9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
   
   
10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Abrahams believed God and his faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Abraham believes Sarah would bear a child.
She did. Isaac was born.
When Isaac became a "young man" (at least 12) Abraham's faith was tested and after he passed the test Abraham was justified ... 12(?) years later.

Is salvation instantaneous or is it a process?

Some say the process starts way before we even realize there is God.

Thanks,
Ed

I believe salvation is a process.

In fact, when I read the Scriptures, I see 4 different aspects of salvation described.

#1. Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.).

#2. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Justification will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#3. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

#4. Glorification (The Future Salvation of the Truly Faithful Believer).
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
Glorification is when God takes the believer home to be with Him in His kingdom and He gives Him a new resurrected body that is not tainted by sin. This process of salvation (in being taken home) is a by product automatically for those believers who properly applied Justification and Sanctification to their lives (For Glorification verses, see: 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Peter 1:4, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 13:11, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 9:28).


Conclusion:

Justification, and then Sanctification is what we as believers need to be focused on. For if we are justified, and sanctified (which is only made possible by the Provisional Atonement), then we will be glorified.

 

[Brightfame52]

Here are several lists of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith:

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3​

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)​

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19-20)​

In fact, Paul is against Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved type belief. For Paul says,

1. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
   
   
2. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
   
   
4. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
   
   
5. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
   
   
6. We can deny God by a lack of good works (Titus 1:16).
   
   
7. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
   
   
8. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
   
   
9. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
   
   
10. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

I dont believe you understand not one of those verses. Those who have salvation, sin is never imputed to their charge Rom 4:7-8
7 saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I dont believe you understand not one of those verses. Those who have salvation, sin is never imputed to their charge Rom 4:7-8
7 saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Romans 4:7-8 is in reference to past sin that is confessed and forsaken. Nowhere does the Bible teach that future sin is forgiven for a believer. 1 John 1:9 says “if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
2 Peter 1:9 says, “But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.”

Believers who justify sin can be in the kingdom and then they can later be cast out due to their justifying sin or iniquity. How so?

Matthew 13:41-42 says “The Son of man [i.e. Jesus] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity [i.e. sin]; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire [i.e. the Lake of Fire]: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”​

In other words, a believer can be in the kingdom of Christ, but they can be cast out later at the judgment if they do iniquity. Christ's angels will gather those in Christ's kingdm who do iniquity and they will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I dont believe you understand not one of those verses. Those who have salvation, sin is never imputed to their charge Rom 4:7-8
7 saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

In addition, the parable of the prodigal son is proof that a believer can have salvation and then lose it, and then regain their salvation back again. How is this so? Well, if you were to read the parable in Luke 15 again sometime, you will discover that when the son came home from his prodigal life of squandering his inheritance on prostitutes and he sought forgiveness with his father, his father said that he was “dead” and now he is “alive AGAIN.” The father said this two times. This means that the son was dead spiritually when he was living a prodigal life in his sins, and when he came back home and sought forgiveness with his father, he became alive AGAIN spiritually. For he was alive spiritually once before he squandered his inheritance. James 5:19-20 also teaches this same truth.

 

[Brightfame52]

Romans 4:7-8 is in reference to past sin that is confessed and forsaken. Nowhere does the Bible teach that future sin is forgiven for a believer. 1 John 1:9 says “if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
2 Peter 1:9 says, “But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.”

Believers who justify sin can be in the kingdom and then they can later be cast out due to their justifying sin or iniquity. How so?

Matthew 13:41-42 says “The Son of man [i.e. Jesus] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity [i.e. sin]; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire [i.e. the Lake of Fire]: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”​

In other words, a believer can be in the kingdom of Christ, but they can be cast out later at the judgment if they do iniquity. Christ's angels will gather those in Christ's kingdm who do iniquity and they will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

Im sorry, I dont believe non for whom Christ died will have iniquity charged to them Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity,
and in whose spirit there is no guile.

 

[Brightfame52]

In addition, the parable of the prodigal son is proof that a believer can have salvation and then lose it, and then regain their salvation back again. How is this so? Well, if you were to read the parable in Luke 15 again sometime, you will discover that when the son came home from his prodigal life of squandering his inheritance on prostitutes and he sought forgiveness with his father, his father said that he was “dead” and now he is “alive AGAIN.” The father said this two times. This means that the son was dead spiritually when he was living a prodigal life in his sins, and when he came back home and sought forgiveness with his father, he became alive AGAIN spiritually. For he was alive spiritually once before he squandered his inheritance. James 5:19-20 also teaches this same truth.

I cant see it. God doesnt impute sin to the persons Christ died for Rom 4:7-8
7 saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I cant see it. God doesnt impute sin to the persons Christ died for Rom 4:7-8
7 saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Again, you have to make the case that future sin is forgiven a believer. I just don't see that mentioned in the Scriptures at all. In fact, the Bible mentions the exact opposite in that only past sins are forgiven only if we confess our sins and we forsake them. Try reading and believing 1 John 1:9 for starters.