Is Salvation Free?

[Light of the East]

First read the article at this link:

Saint Paisios of Mount Athos: Not everyone will be saved

NOTE: This is NOT a discussion of Universalism. I don't even want to go there!!

What I want to understand is this:

"Struggle with all your power to gain Paradise. This is trap of Satan so that we would not struggle."

I'm not sure I understand this completely. Probably not, not having an Orthodox mindset and having come from Protestantism. It sounds to me that unless you are in the midst of great struggles, you cannot really be saved?

Is that what Orthodoxy teaches? Where is the free salvation of which I heard in Protestantism? Remember, Protestantism is a direct result of Luther (who had serious psychological problems) feeling he could never do enough to merit salvation. Protestantism teaches that we can do nothing to earn or merit God's mercy, yet when I read the above quote, it sounds exactly like that is what is being taught here - work and struggle hard so you can earn (gain) Paradise.

Looking for answers....not an argument.

Thank you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

GOOD! POSITIVELY GREAT !
(I think Jesus said we need to use EVERY NERVE OF OUR BEING, all of our wit and strength, everything within us, to be becoming His.)
Willingness is most important. Willingly and Joyously all of our spirit and soul and strength .....
... but now I'll go read the article... (I AM JUST SO HAPPY ! )
(oh, I'm not as far as I know 'Orthodox', but maybe going there (I like a lot of Orthodox posts) ? Definitely not any more usually Protestant nor Catholic though, but maybe some parts somewhere ? )

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Great Article ! (short too)

 

[RobNJ]

Step 1 Read the WHOLE paragraph
"Struggle with all your power to gain Paradise. And do not listen to those who say that everyone will be saved. This is trap of Satan so that we would not struggle."

In other words... "I'm SAVED!, so everything's cool!", is wrong... You can't just "talk the talk", you have to "walk the walk". SAYING you've prayed this prayer, or whatever, is useless, if you don't try to live up to the standards of how a follower of Christ should live. And, having free will, in a fallen world, that AIN'T easy! There are too many wrong choices to avoid, and to repent of, after you have made them.
Mostly this speaks of the struggle to avoid sin, and how complacency can be detrimental to that struggle. It's what we call "prelest".. Look at the parable of the publican, and the pharisee

 

[Light of the East]

Step 1 Read the WHOLE paragraph
"Struggle with all your power to gain Paradise. And do not listen to those who say that everyone will be saved. This is trap of Satan so that we would not struggle."

In other words... "I'm SAVED!, so everything's cool!", is wrong... You can't just "talk the talk", you have to "walk the walk". SAYING you've prayed this prayer, or whatever, is useless, if you don't try to live up to the standards of how a follower of Christ should live. And, having free will, in a fallen world, that AIN'T easy! There are too many wrong choices to avoid, and to repent of, after you have made them.
Mostly this speaks of the struggle to avoid sin, and how complacency can be detrimental to that struggle. It's what we call "prelest".. Look at the parable of the publican, and the pharisee

Wow! Talk about missing the whole point! Let me try again.

"Struggle with all your power to gain Paradise."

Please tell me how this does not sound like earning your salvation, especially in the light of the comment about being saved (not everyone being saved). It is clear that he is talking about salvation.

Is salvation free, or do I earn it?

Okay, let me approach this from another angle. A man comes to think of his life on his deathbed and realizes that he has been evil. He realizes that there is justice and decides "I better get right with God." He calls a priest and makes a good and heartfelt confession.

He dies the next morning....before he can struggle, before he can do anything to "gain" salvation.

Is he still saved, having done nothing to advance his theosis or to earn Paradise?

I'm sorry, I'm seeing this as earning what is supposed to be free....God's mercy and grace. (But again, I'm probably in need of having the blinders taken off my eyes so I can see).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Struggle with all your power to gain Paradise."

Like Jesus Says is True:
Luke 13:24 ►
SUM PIC XRF DEV STU
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

New Living Translation
“Work hard to enter the narrow door to God’s Kingdom, for many will try to enter but will fail.

English Standard Version
“Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Berean Study Bible
“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able.

Berean Literal Bible
"Strive to enter in through the narrow door; for many, I say to you, will seek to enter in, and will not be able.

 

[RobNJ]

Give this a look

 

[peregrinus2017]

Do you see gaining as identical to earning?

 

[dqhall]

First read the article at this link:

Saint Paisios of Mount Athos: Not everyone will be saved

NOTE: This is NOT a discussion of Universalism. I don't even want to go there!!

What I want to understand is this:

"Struggle with all your power to gain Paradise. This is trap of Satan so that we would not struggle."

I'm not sure I understand this completely. Probably not, not having an Orthodox mindset and having come from Protestantism. It sounds to me that unless you are in the midst of great struggles, you cannot really be saved?

Is that what Orthodoxy teaches? Where is the free salvation of which I heard in Protestantism? Remember, Protestantism is a direct result of Luther (who had serious psychological problems) feeling he could never do enough to merit salvation. Protestantism teaches that we can do nothing to earn or merit God's mercy, yet when I read the above quote, it sounds exactly like that is what is being taught here - work and struggle hard so you can earn (gain) Paradise.

Looking for answers....not an argument.

Thank you.

People had to spend time and energy to go listen to Jesus or his disciples. They had to read Christian writings. Was this free or forced?

What one Protestant teaches, another may disagree with.

My mother was taught that she could go to heaven by attending Mass. I respected her freedom of religion. Even though I am described as a Protestant, we both liked reading Gospel passages.

Paul said, “If a man does not work, he should not eat.” This is something any Christian might have to cope with. Some of Paul’s letters seemed to ask for traveling expenses for his ministry. An itinerant tent maker and Gospel preacher needed help. He also collected funds for poor saints in Jerusalem.

 

[AMM]

We don’t earn salvation. But we do obtain it (think of St Paul, “I press on, not having obtained salvation” or something - can’t remember the exact wording), through the gift (!!) of the Holy Spirit. Not something we earn, but something we do acquire.

St Seraphim of Sarov teaches that nothing - prayer, fasting, almsgiving, etc - is valuable in and of itself, but rather is all a means to obtain and acquire the Holy Spirit, but still not as something (someone) we earn, rather as a gift of God’s mercy

 

[Al Touthentop]

Looking for answers....not an argument.

Thank you.

Jesus was himself clear that not even all Christians would be saved, much more the entire world.

The doctrine of "not of works" revolves around the interpretation of the phrase "not of works" which is written several places in the New Testament but does not mean the same thing every time it is used. In linguistic terms assigning the same meaning to a word or a phrase every where it is used is called “illegitimate totality transfer."

For instance, in Acts 2:

And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

In the first instance, the term "breaking of bread" refers to the Lord's supper. We know this because the phrase is part of a list of things included in what is referred to as "the apostles doctrine and fellowship." In the second, it is talking about the sharing of regular meals.

People often take a phrase and try to make it mean the same thing every time they encounter it, ignoring the actual context.

In Romans and Galatians, Paul talks about deeds of the law and works of the law and he's referring to works proscribed by the Mosaic law. They are specific works. One cannot be saved through those works he says because that law is obsolete. We can't go back to it and gain salvation because that is no longer the way that remission and righteousness are supplied.

In Ephesians, Paul is writing to Gentiles and letting them know that it isn't works of merit, self-invented works of merit which save anyone. Men did not and can not just make up some work they think is "good" and end up in right relationship with God. Imagine some fellow arriving at the pearly gates and saying, "But God, I made up my bed every day of my life, and I gave money to homeless people. Doesn't that count for anything?"

What Paul explains in 2:8-10 is that the works which God would have us do are "not of yourselves." We weren't saved by the works we made up that might satisfy God, we were saved by the works God commanded and invented. They're HIS works, not ours. Thus, there can be no cause for boasting even if we've done them. The works that we are to do are the ones he commanded and created (before the foundation of the earth 1:4) for us to "walk in."

That actually provides us with much confidence. If we walk in these works, the ones that God appointed for us to walk in, we have assurance. If not, we also have assurance, but not the comforting kind.

 

[TheLostCoin]

Grace is something freely given. This doesn’t mean that it’s permanently imputed onto people in any way; people can choose to consciously reject that Grace or consciously embrace it. Embracing Grace to achieve Salvation means struggling to paradise, because by struggling, you are answering God’s call. By rejecting the struggle, and thereby rejecting God, you are rejecting Grace.

 

[klutedavid]

First read the article at this link:

Saint Paisios of Mount Athos: Not everyone will be saved

NOTE: This is NOT a discussion of Universalism. I don't even want to go there!!

What I want to understand is this:

"Struggle with all your power to gain Paradise. This is trap of Satan so that we would not struggle."

I'm not sure I understand this completely. Probably not, not having an Orthodox mindset and having come from Protestantism. It sounds to me that unless you are in the midst of great struggles, you cannot really be saved?

Is that what Orthodoxy teaches? Where is the free salvation of which I heard in Protestantism? Remember, Protestantism is a direct result of Luther (who had serious psychological problems) feeling he could never do enough to merit salvation. Protestantism teaches that we can do nothing to earn or merit God's mercy, yet when I read the above quote, it sounds exactly like that is what is being taught here - work and struggle hard so you can earn (gain) Paradise.

Looking for answers....not an argument.

Thank you.

Salvation is presented in the scripture in the form of a free gift to all. A free gift that is entirely undeserved by us.

Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

 

[Light of the East]

Give this a look

You need to update your meme to WALKEN 2020

 

[Light of the East]

ORTHODOX ANSWERS ONLY!!!!!

I am not interested at all in the theological opinions of those outside the Orthodox Church as I am trying to become Orthodox!!!!


I shouldn't even have to say this!

 

[Al Touthentop]

Grace is something freely given. This doesn’t mean that it’s permanently imputed onto people in any way; people can choose to consciously reject that Grace or consciously embrace it. Embracing Grace to achieve Salvation means struggling to paradise, because by struggling, you are answering God’s call. By rejecting the struggle, and thereby rejecting God, you are rejecting Grace.

Grace was shown to us by God but there are still things we must do to gain its benefits for ourselves.

Jesus said that belief was something required of us and that it was a work.

The command that an officer gives a soldier, is grace by definition. It was given and that grace in many instances will save the soldier's life.

We don't deserve God's grace, it's true. But he has called us to obedience. The result of that obedience is eternal life. That we obey and receive something for that obedience is not payment.

 

[Al Touthentop]

You need to update your meme to WALKEN 2020

I didn't exist 2000 years ago, but back then I was saved......Wow.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yes, salvation is free. but we must struggle because in our fallenness, we often don't want it.

 

[Light of the East]

And honestly, how is this any different from "Pray the First Five Saturdays and you are assured the Blessed Virgin Mary will take you directly to heaven" or "Wear the Miraculous Medal all your life and you are assured of heaven."

It all sounds like buying, earning, or doing something in exchange for salvation.

The way I understand it (and I am completely open to correction here) is that our salvation is free, but our state in the next life is determined by what we do here. The more we cooperate with the Holy Spirit, put the flesh to death, etc. the more reward we will get in heaven, which is not the same as salvation.

In other words, I have no expectation of having the same eternal reward as someone like St. Paisios of Mt. Athos. He will far outshine me in the next life for his choices made here and now. But we will both recieve eternal life as a gift.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

ORTHODOX ANSWERS ONLY!!!!!

I am not interested at all in the theological opinions of those outside the Orthodox Church as I am trying to become Orthodox!!!!


I shouldn't even have to say this!

I usually try to put a parentheses at the beginning :

Something like, (You Are In The Eastern Orthodox Forum)
or (You Are In The Ancient Way Forum) etc.


.