- Mar 13, 2004
- 18,941
- 1,758
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
now recently a christian cult has permeated this thread with works salvation, I have refuted it, but the poster has a lot of time on his hands to post lots of posts, and I can't refute them all, so I don't recommend reading further. If you do want to tackle it go ahead, if you have any questions message me.
View attachment 264812
-----------
here is the update after my debate with works salvation users:
Salvation issues are the most important doctrine because it is the method in which we are saved. Almost all religions have some aspect of salvation that is true. But even small errors in salvation theology end up being way off course when you follow it ten or twenty years. For instance a boat that is one degree off course, in a thousand mile journey will completely miss the harbor, or possibly even the island the harbor is on. Rat poison is mostly edible food, it only has a small percentage of poison. That high truth to error ratio makes it palatable for rats. That is the sole factor in the success of rat poison. And that is also the sole factor in why christian cults are so attractive. Anyway, I am not adressing Bible highlighter's posts, as I have logically refuted the main premise. There is no evidence that Bible Highlighter is in fact saved, as he believes he is saved by works, which means he has no assurance by definition. So if he is not even saved himself, how can he tell others how to be saved. It reminds me of the pharisees in the bible, they through their legalism shut out people from heaven.
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."
matthew 23:13
Since Jesus came there was only two places in the new testament that revealed God's anger toward man. Both were toward the religious hypocrite. A religious hypocrite tells others how to be saved, but cannot save himself. See salvation is a free gift as romans four and ephesians 2 states, yes we must repent of our sin and turn to the true God. But that is a free gift too. We get to repent, after Christ forgives us and gives us a new slate, we are allowed to repent. In the Bible it speaks of "granting repentance" See God grants us that gift. Before Christ came into our lives we were bound to sin, we were stuck in addictive behaviour. But after Christ came He did away with the law of sin and death. The law is a school master to bring us to Christ. Yes in Christ we fulfill the law of love, but that is Christ in us. Not of ourselves, it's Christ's work in our lives. Anyway, I won't ramble on. Bible Highlighter believes the error that all religions teach, that we can work ourselves to God. But that would be like jumping to the moon, heaven is a perfect place. So any imperfection is by default rejected. All christian cults believe in grace, but when interviewed about it, it's really just works. They say that God give us the chance to save ourselves by works, by forgiving us. But again, "Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?" Galatians 3:3
So again, this debate is going nowhere, and I knew instantly that it would not achieve any success. I have debated christian cults for nearly twenty years. And I have never seen a single person converted to christianity. The reason is this..... works salvation feeds our flesh. It is a work of the flesh according to galatians 3:3. Sanctification is also by faith as I have shown in previous posts. Justified by faith, and sanctified by that same exact faith. That is why it says "are you foolish to believe that that which begun in the spirit can be perfected by the flesh".
Mormons are the most recruited christian cult right now. Jehovah's witnesses are following behind, because they are slightly more legalistic, and in this day and age, that doesn't strive well with people.
They don't celebrate holidays, etc.
But if you simply understand grace, and the new testament, romans, galatians, ephesians. Then the law books of the new testament make sense. One you are saved, you are free to get out of your addictions. Now don't get me wrong, many many Christians think that simply believing in JEsus is enough, it's not. You must repent. See the devils believe in Jesus, the Bible says...so what does it make us if we believe too? So there must be a repentance from sin, and submitting to God. But again this is all a work of the spirit, the spirit of grace. We are granted repentance, we are allowed to step out of bondage. It is never mentioned as a work of salvation. Some verses mention works, but there are many types of works, there are works of the flesh, or sin. There is works of the spirit, which is rightous acts done after salvation. And there are dead works, hebrews six. Or those works that we do in order to save ourselves. So I have repeatedly ad nauseum addressed the same spirit of error in this guys posts, and God has revealed that it would not be a good steward of time to repeatedly answer the same questions over and over. I love that the poster has a good heart. That is good. I love that He loves the scriptures. That is good, and I love that he is polite, that is a bonus. But like I said, we can read the whole Bible but read it in the flesh, and not in the true spirit. Like I said the most dangerous errors are the small errors. The simple error that I can work out my salvation in my flesh, no, no, no. Just because I am saved by grace does not allow me the freedom to go against Christ sacrifice and try to save myself. That is a dangerous heresy, and it is the only theology (legalism), that Christ specifically got angry at. He did not get angry at cross dressers, pedophiles or homosexuals. He did not get angry at prostitutes, or people who traded in child sex trafficking. He could have mentioned any of that stuff, I am sure in pagan rome all of that existed. He didn't get mad at temple prostitution. He got mad at legalism. He got mad at those people who knew enough of the Bible to get themselves a following, and draw away disciples after them. I am available to answer any messages, and I will post this in the bottom of the op, first post. I feel that people flock to the grace gospel most, and then secondly they flock to legalism, the true gospel frees you from condemnation and allows a launching pad for true heartfelt love for God and a true experience with holiness. God bless you guys, Bible highlighter will probably be lurking around the forum. His gospel message is not allowed on this forum. No where are we allowed to say we are saved by works. It is a cultic message. So if you wish me to address his posts, just copy and paste them to me. I will spend more time answering your guys messages than I did in this thread. I have given up debate for the most part, because God revealed to me it was part of my fleshly desire to fight with people. I don't wish to fight with people. I wish to set the free from sin. Legalism is not the appropriate way to do that. So copy any post, or scripture that you are confused over, say if you are confused with james how is says "faith without works is dead." I have written entire articles on that specific verse. So we can talk about that, and explain that in light of all the other verses. I have not posted refutations to most verses, simply because I have not been commanded to fight with people. And debate takes considerable time, and if someone is already convinced of their viewpoint, which most are, I will not spend hours doing bible study to answer them. But if you have a question about a verse that seems to say we are saved by works, let me know in a message, and conversly if you feel we are saved by faith through grace and repentance has no place in the gospel, that is the ancient heresy of antinomianism. Or "anti law." That too is in error. Message me the verses you are struggling with, and I will discuss in messaging form.
Here is a Lordship Index,
LORDSHIP-INDEX-–UPDATE-5.doc.docx
Lets talk about how those verses in the new testament depict salvation, and how we are still saved by grace through faith alone, without the addition of repentance. (which is an error many christians make).
View attachment 264812
-----------
here is the update after my debate with works salvation users:
Salvation issues are the most important doctrine because it is the method in which we are saved. Almost all religions have some aspect of salvation that is true. But even small errors in salvation theology end up being way off course when you follow it ten or twenty years. For instance a boat that is one degree off course, in a thousand mile journey will completely miss the harbor, or possibly even the island the harbor is on. Rat poison is mostly edible food, it only has a small percentage of poison. That high truth to error ratio makes it palatable for rats. That is the sole factor in the success of rat poison. And that is also the sole factor in why christian cults are so attractive. Anyway, I am not adressing Bible highlighter's posts, as I have logically refuted the main premise. There is no evidence that Bible Highlighter is in fact saved, as he believes he is saved by works, which means he has no assurance by definition. So if he is not even saved himself, how can he tell others how to be saved. It reminds me of the pharisees in the bible, they through their legalism shut out people from heaven.
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."
matthew 23:13
Since Jesus came there was only two places in the new testament that revealed God's anger toward man. Both were toward the religious hypocrite. A religious hypocrite tells others how to be saved, but cannot save himself. See salvation is a free gift as romans four and ephesians 2 states, yes we must repent of our sin and turn to the true God. But that is a free gift too. We get to repent, after Christ forgives us and gives us a new slate, we are allowed to repent. In the Bible it speaks of "granting repentance" See God grants us that gift. Before Christ came into our lives we were bound to sin, we were stuck in addictive behaviour. But after Christ came He did away with the law of sin and death. The law is a school master to bring us to Christ. Yes in Christ we fulfill the law of love, but that is Christ in us. Not of ourselves, it's Christ's work in our lives. Anyway, I won't ramble on. Bible Highlighter believes the error that all religions teach, that we can work ourselves to God. But that would be like jumping to the moon, heaven is a perfect place. So any imperfection is by default rejected. All christian cults believe in grace, but when interviewed about it, it's really just works. They say that God give us the chance to save ourselves by works, by forgiving us. But again, "Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?" Galatians 3:3
So again, this debate is going nowhere, and I knew instantly that it would not achieve any success. I have debated christian cults for nearly twenty years. And I have never seen a single person converted to christianity. The reason is this..... works salvation feeds our flesh. It is a work of the flesh according to galatians 3:3. Sanctification is also by faith as I have shown in previous posts. Justified by faith, and sanctified by that same exact faith. That is why it says "are you foolish to believe that that which begun in the spirit can be perfected by the flesh".
Mormons are the most recruited christian cult right now. Jehovah's witnesses are following behind, because they are slightly more legalistic, and in this day and age, that doesn't strive well with people.
They don't celebrate holidays, etc.
But if you simply understand grace, and the new testament, romans, galatians, ephesians. Then the law books of the new testament make sense. One you are saved, you are free to get out of your addictions. Now don't get me wrong, many many Christians think that simply believing in JEsus is enough, it's not. You must repent. See the devils believe in Jesus, the Bible says...so what does it make us if we believe too? So there must be a repentance from sin, and submitting to God. But again this is all a work of the spirit, the spirit of grace. We are granted repentance, we are allowed to step out of bondage. It is never mentioned as a work of salvation. Some verses mention works, but there are many types of works, there are works of the flesh, or sin. There is works of the spirit, which is rightous acts done after salvation. And there are dead works, hebrews six. Or those works that we do in order to save ourselves. So I have repeatedly ad nauseum addressed the same spirit of error in this guys posts, and God has revealed that it would not be a good steward of time to repeatedly answer the same questions over and over. I love that the poster has a good heart. That is good. I love that He loves the scriptures. That is good, and I love that he is polite, that is a bonus. But like I said, we can read the whole Bible but read it in the flesh, and not in the true spirit. Like I said the most dangerous errors are the small errors. The simple error that I can work out my salvation in my flesh, no, no, no. Just because I am saved by grace does not allow me the freedom to go against Christ sacrifice and try to save myself. That is a dangerous heresy, and it is the only theology (legalism), that Christ specifically got angry at. He did not get angry at cross dressers, pedophiles or homosexuals. He did not get angry at prostitutes, or people who traded in child sex trafficking. He could have mentioned any of that stuff, I am sure in pagan rome all of that existed. He didn't get mad at temple prostitution. He got mad at legalism. He got mad at those people who knew enough of the Bible to get themselves a following, and draw away disciples after them. I am available to answer any messages, and I will post this in the bottom of the op, first post. I feel that people flock to the grace gospel most, and then secondly they flock to legalism, the true gospel frees you from condemnation and allows a launching pad for true heartfelt love for God and a true experience with holiness. God bless you guys, Bible highlighter will probably be lurking around the forum. His gospel message is not allowed on this forum. No where are we allowed to say we are saved by works. It is a cultic message. So if you wish me to address his posts, just copy and paste them to me. I will spend more time answering your guys messages than I did in this thread. I have given up debate for the most part, because God revealed to me it was part of my fleshly desire to fight with people. I don't wish to fight with people. I wish to set the free from sin. Legalism is not the appropriate way to do that. So copy any post, or scripture that you are confused over, say if you are confused with james how is says "faith without works is dead." I have written entire articles on that specific verse. So we can talk about that, and explain that in light of all the other verses. I have not posted refutations to most verses, simply because I have not been commanded to fight with people. And debate takes considerable time, and if someone is already convinced of their viewpoint, which most are, I will not spend hours doing bible study to answer them. But if you have a question about a verse that seems to say we are saved by works, let me know in a message, and conversly if you feel we are saved by faith through grace and repentance has no place in the gospel, that is the ancient heresy of antinomianism. Or "anti law." That too is in error. Message me the verses you are struggling with, and I will discuss in messaging form.
Here is a Lordship Index,
LORDSHIP-INDEX-–UPDATE-5.doc.docx
Lets talk about how those verses in the new testament depict salvation, and how we are still saved by grace through faith alone, without the addition of repentance. (which is an error many christians make).
Last edited: