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Featured Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Quasar92, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. def

    def Member Supporter

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    Believers are saved when they received the gift of God (initial salvation); they remain faithful until the end (ultimate salvation).
    Those who believe in Once Saved Always Saved, there is only one salvation, the Spirit keeps them sanctified till the end.
    I tend to believe OSAS because of the power of the Holy Spirit, but there is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which I am still uncertain, and could impact OSAS.
     
  2. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So how would one commi blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?
     
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note the apostle Paul shows that even Christians will be condemned if they engage in sinful activities without repentance:

    Romans 8:1 ¶There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    In the original Greek Textus Receptus and the KJV, the latter half of this verse states the condition for the first half. If the latter half isn't done, the first half doesn't apply, as other verses also make clear:

    Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

    Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    -

    Regarding repenting from a sin (Acts 8:22; 2 Corinthians 12:21, Revelation 3:19), that means to change one's mind regarding that sin, in the sense of having no plans to ever commit it again, knowing God has made it possible for Christians not to sin (John 8:34-36, Romans 8:2-14, Romans 6:1-23; 2 Corinthians 7:1), even when they're tempted to do so (2 Peter 2:9a; 1 Corinthians 10:13, Matthew 6:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Romans 8:13, Galatians 5:16).

    But if, sometime after repenting from a sin, Christians nonetheless wrongly employ their free will to commit that sin again, this doesn't mean they hadn't previously repented from that sin, or that they as continued believers in Jesus Christ and His Gospel aren't saved. What they need to do is repent from that sin again and confess it to God, and they will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9, cf. Luke 17:4).

    Satan wants Christians to fail to continue to come to Jesus, to think it's hopeless, that they're just too evil for Jesus, when in fact Jesus is waiting with open arms to forgive them for their sins which weigh down on them so heavily (Matthew 11:28-30).

    -

    The ability of Christians (although not their choosing) to repent from and confess to God every sin they commit is assured. For if they do commit a sin, even if they're unaware of it, Jesus Christ will send them warning and chastening to make sure they know they've sinned and need to repent (Revelation 3:19, Hebrews 12:6-7, cf. Jeremiah 31:18-19). And He will give them time to repent (Revelation 2:21a). It's only if they wrongly employ their free will to waste the time they're given, and ignore the warning and chastening, and refuse to repent (Revelation 2:21-23, cf. Deuteronomy 21:18-21) until death (1 John 5:16b) or Jesus' future, Second Coming (Luke 12:45-46), that they will ultimately lose their salvation due to unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:19-21).

    If Christians become unsure whether or not they've ignored Jesus' warning, and refused to repent from a sin, they need to pray and ask Him to reveal to them if there's any unrepentant sin in their heart (Psalms 139:23-24). And they need to be reading the Bible, every word of it (Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:16), over and over again. For it will expose to them any unrepentant sin which still exists in their heart (Hebrews 4:12; 2 Timothy 3:16), so they can repent from it and confess it to God, and be forgiven and perfect before God (2 Timothy 3:17; 1 John 1:9; 2 Corinthians 7:1).
     
  4. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    It's impossible to believe or continue to believe all the right things apart from God's miraculous gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, Hebrews 12:2) and some measure of His Spirit (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Also, it's impossible to perform or continue to perform all the right actions as Christians apart from God making it possible for Christians to do that (Philippians 2:12-13, John 15:4-5). And it's impossible to repent, if a sin is committed, apart from God making it possible to repent (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18, Romans 8:13). So even if Christians continue to believe, act, and repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble they never give themselves any credit or glory (Luke 17:10, Galatians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 1:29,31). But when Jesus Christ judges the Church at His future, Second Coming, He will give obedient Christians some credit (Matthew 25:21). Also, God does glorify Christians (Romans 8:30).

    Galatians 3:2-25 means all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, should stop trying to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. For Galatians 3:2-25 says the works of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are works of the flesh instead of God's Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:2-3). And Galatians 3:2-25 shows that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to do the works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law place themselves under its curse (Galatians 3:10). And Galatians 3:2-25 says the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was only a temporary schoolmaster which Christians, both Jews and Gentiles (so that Paul, a Jew, can say "we"), are no longer under (Galatians 3:24-25, cf. Romans 7:6).

    Here "the" law means the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, not the New Covenant/New Testament law of Jesus Christ, for:

    John 14:15 ¶If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
    22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
    23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
    24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

    Luke 13:3 . . . except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
     
  5. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that Calvinism's mistaken doctrine of once-saved-always-saved through assured perseverance (remaining faithful until the end) unwittingly ends up logically requiring Christians are robots. For if Christians can't choose to do evil to the point where they can ultimately lose their salvation, they no longer have free will. Also, the mistaken doctrine of assured perseverance unwittingly ends up logically requiring a Christian can have no present assurance he's truly saved. For if a Christian who doesn't persevere to the end was never truly saved, no Christian can presently have the assurance he's truly saved. For no Christian can know if he will persevere to the end. Down the road he could fail to persevere and so end up showing he was all along only a fake Christian, a self-deceived hypocrite.

    Note the Bible doesn't teach once-saved-always-saved, but shows that initially saved people, that is, Christians, will obtain ultimate salvation only "if" they continue in the faith to the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Hebrews 3:12, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b, Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 10:38-39, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Also, even if they do continue in the faith, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also patiently continue to the end in obedience and good works (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Philippians 2:12b; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9; 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14; 1 John 2:17b), as in works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

    Also, even if they do continue in faith and good works of faith, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also continue to the end to repent from every sin they commit (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 7:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to commit unrepentant sin, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Luke 12:45-46; 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13; 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

    Also, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus Christ's death for our sins (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that (cf. Acts 22:16a).

    Also, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they partake of the divine flesh and blood of the bread and wine of Communion (John 6:53, Matthew 26:26-28; 1 Corinthians 10:16; 1 Corinthians 11:27-30). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that (cf. John 6:60,66).

    Also, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they forgive everyone for every wrong (Matthew 6:14-15). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that (Matthew 18:21-35).

    Also, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they do all they can (Romans 12:18) to make reparations to and peace with everyone whom they've ever wronged (Matthew 5:23-26, cf. Acts 24:16). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that.

    Also, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they help other Christians in need (Matthew 25:34-46). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that (3 John 1:10b).

    Also, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they provide for their families (1 Timothy 5:8). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that.

    Also, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't commit the unforgivable sin, which is blaspheming God's Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29). An example of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is saying an act performed by the power of the Holy Spirit (e.g. Matthew 12:28) was performed by Satan (Mark 3:22-30). There's no assurance Christians will never choose to say that (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:39b; 1 Thessalonians 5:19).

    Also, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't remove words from the book of Revelation and publish the altered text as if it were the original, without repentance (Revelation 22:19). And there's no assurance they will never choose to do that (cf. 2 Corinthians 4:2).

    Also, Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't worship the future Antichrist and his image, and don't willingly receive his mark on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 14:9-12, Revelation 13:16-18). And there's no assurance they won't choose to do those things (1 Timothy 4:1).

    Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they continue in God's goodness to the end (Romans 11:20-22). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that (Luke 12:45-46).

    Christians will obtain ultimate salvation only if they overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 2:26). And there's no assurance they will choose to do that (Revelation 21:7-8).

    All this is said not to engender any unhealthy fear in Christians, but the healthy fear which all Christians are supposed to have (e.g. Romans 11:20-22).

    And all this is said not to engender any despair in Christians, but the healthy, close-clinging to the person of Jesus Christ Himself, which all Christians must continue in (John 15:4-6). For while God makes it possible for Christians to do the right things (Philippians 2:13) toward their ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Philippians 2:12b, Matthew 7:21), this is possible only so long as they continue to abide in Jesus. For on their own, apart from Jesus, they can't do anything good (John 15:4-5).

    Also, Jesus isn't a hard taskmaster. He will never give Christians more work to do for Him than they can easily bear (Matthew 11:28-30). So if Christians ever get stressed out that Jesus is asking them to do too much, it's not Jesus asking them to do whatever is stressing them out (Luke 10:40-42). They need to take a step back and ask Jesus what particular spiritual work He's actually asking them as individuals to do (Mark 13:34, Romans 12:6-8).
     
  6. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    You clearly fail to grasp Pauls message. He relentlessly states:
    The Christian has no righteousness/ justification of observing the law.
    You are cursed if you rely on observing the law
    The power of sin is the law
    The Christian is released from the law

    This does NOT refer solely to the letter of the OC mosaic law, but not the NC law!
    The power of sin did not lie in Torah/ the Levitical law for that law could faultlessly be obeyed( phil3:6) The Pharisees of Jesus day faultlessly obeyed that law!
    The power of sin lies in the moral law.
    Read carefully:
    For I would not have known lust except the law had said: thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the Commandment wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.
    Thou shalt not covet/ lust is NC law, NOT solely OC law. You have made a grave error.
    When Paul states in rom7:6 the Christian is released from the law, for sinful passions are aroused in you by the law if you live under it. He continues on to give: thou shalt not covet, as the example of why he had to die to a law of righteousness!! And that commandment us incorporated in NC law!
    Do you even try to obey each and every literal command of Christ? I'm sure you do not. According to your quote does that mean you don't love Christ?

    Reeling off the letter is not enough, you have to understand the message. And don't reel off the letter to demand of others what you do not demand of yourself.
    Victory over sin, according to Paul is dying to a righteousness of observing the law. The Pharisees of Jesus day and Saul the pharisee had victory over sin where the legalistic law/ Torah was concerned for they faultlessly obeyed it.
    Paul is referring to the moral law, when he says sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace, and moral law is NC law.
    Therefore, the question I asked you initially remains.
    How do you align heb10:26 with rom3:20?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  7. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    As for repenting from sin. Think of the person you love the most in this world. When you upset them/ say something that offends them, how does it make you feel? You feel bad don't you, you have no rest, and no peace until you go and tell them you are sorry for offending them
    It's the same if you truly love God in your heart. You have no rest, no peace when you offend him/ commit wilfull sin. You have no rest of peace until you say sorry to him for what you have done. As surely as night follows day the truly born again Christian will repent of folly they commit for they love God and his law is in their hearts.

    If you were raised by loving parents, I will assume you were. When you broke their rules as a child, were you in danger of being thrown out of the family home until you told them you were sorry for breaking their rules?
    Does God love his children less than earthly parents do?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  8. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    A few years ago, my mother, who I dearly loved was diagnosed terminally ill with cancer. My wife and I went to live with her in her home during her illness. During that time I lived closer to the biblical ideal than I have ever lived in my life. I put aside my own wants and desires, for my mothers. I lived to see my mother happy in the days she had left. My happiness was taking her to see her friends, and bringing her friends to see her before her illness curtailed her movements. I was thrilled to take her places that gave her happiness to see. I waited on her, nothing was too much trouble for my mother.
    During this time I did not covet what was hers, I didn't want to murder her, bear false witness against her, steal from her, I honoured her.
    Did I act this way to my mother because I concentrated on the letter of Commandments and strove to obey them in order to please God/ be righteous before him? No! I never once considered any commandment where my mother was concerned, none of them even crossed my mind. I acted that way because I loved my mother dearly.
    Love fulfills the law
    Carry earth each others burdens( love them) and so FULFILL the law of Christ Gal6:2

    The Commandments, do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, AND WHATEVER OTHER COMMANDMENTS there might be are summed up in this one rule. Love your neighbour as yourself. Love does no harm to its neighbour. Therefore love is the fulfillment if the law
    Rom13:9&10

    Those who tell you to follow the letter of individual Commandments to be righteous before God are simply the religious devoid of understanding the heart of the Christian message. They do not practice what they preach, for the letter kills, and they cannot follow the heart of the message.
    Observing the law is NO MANS righteousness before God. Faith in Christ is the true believers righteousness and the law is fulfilled by love.

    The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love
    Gal5:6
     
  9. def

    def Member Supporter

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    Good question. There are threads on this topic.
     
  10. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    If my salvation depend upon my confession of all of my sins to God, I would be lost forever. There are several gazillion sins which I have committed and not confessed, primarily because I am generally unaware of them. Ignorance of sin is no excuse in the sight of a holy God so that although I am ignorant of these sins I am still accountable.

    Even if you wish to think that sins committed in ignorance are automatically forgiven, there are the sins committed 24/7/365 in full knowledge. Have you loved God with all of your heart, soul, and mind 24/7/365? Have you loved your neighbor actually as your love yourself to the point that you have given him all that you possess? Do you love all of humanity thus?
     
  11. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you are ok teaching multiple salvations when that is not Biblical then you will have to deal with God someday for teaching that. Because no apostle taught it.
     
  12. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That would apply to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, not to the New Covenant/New Testament law of Jesus Christ, for:

    Matthew 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
    25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
    26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
    27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

    This shows both faith and obedience to God are required for Christians to enter ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24). But there's no assurance Christians will choose to obey (Matthew 25:26,30, Luke 12:45-46).

    Matthew 7:23a could be hyperbole, like Matthew 23:24b is hyperbole. For Matthew 7:22 could refer to Christians, believers in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31), who had repented from their sins (1 John 3:6) and performed many wonderful works for Jesus to the end (John 15:4-5). But at some point subsequent to their initial repentance they had fallen back into some unrepentant sin (Matthew 7:23b; 2 Peter 2:20-22), so they had to be rejected by Jesus in the end despite their continued faith and good works (1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Hebrews 10:26-29).

    Regarding the ability to cast out demons (Matthew 7:22), that's one of the signs people are Christians, believers in the Gospel (Mark 16:17). People must be careful not to fall into the unforgivable presumption of Mark 3:22-30.

    That would apply to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, not to the New Covenant/New Testament law of Jesus Christ, for:

    James 1:22 . . . be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
    23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
    24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
    25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

    That would apply to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, not to the New Covenant/New Testament law of Jesus Christ, for:

    John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
    35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
    36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

    Note it says: "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin", which includes people who reject all law. That is, most people sin because they don't want to be under any law. Indeed, the epitome of sinners, the future Antichrist, is called the "Lawless one", for in 2 Thessalonians 2:8 the original Greek word (anomos: G0459) translated as "Wicked" means "Lawless".
     
  13. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That would apply to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, not to the New Covenant/New Testament law of Jesus Christ, for:

    1 Corinthians 9:20 . . . unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
    21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

    The former relates to ultimate salvation while the latter relates to initial salvation. Also, Romans 3:20 relates to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, including its Ten Commandments. For that entire law was not of faith (Galatians 3:12). But the New Covenant/New Testament law of Jesus Christ is entirely of faith, for:

    John 14:12 ¶Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

    Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

    Also, the entire letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, including its Ten Commandments, was while "the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified" (John 7:39). But the New Covenant/New Testament law of Jesus Christ is entirely of the Spirit, for "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63). And Christians obey Jesus' law through the Spirit:

    Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

    So Christians should in no way try to live without Jesus' law, but instead keep it by faith and the Spirit.

    1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
     
  14. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note: "because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold (Matthew 24:12).

    Also:

    2 Peter 2:20 . . . if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    This refers to Christians who had truly escaped the pollutions of the world (2 Peter 2:20, cf. 2 Peter 1:4b). They had truly been washed (2 Peter 2:22b, cf. 1 Corinthians 6:11, Hebrews 10:22) through knowing Jesus Christ (2 Peter 2:20, cf. 2 Peter 1:3b, John 17:3,17). But they nonetheless at some subsequent point wrongly employed their free will to return back to sinning without repentance, so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20b-21, cf. Hebrews 10:26-29).
     
  15. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    You are all over the place here. You state rom3:20, and therefore Pauls other numerous references concerning having no righteousness of observing the law concerns the OT mosaic law, including the TC. The TC are incorporated in NT law! They have been written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer(2cor3:3)
    Are you suggesting not, murdering, committing adultery bearing false witness etc are part of OC law but not NC law?
    You have already been shown when Paul states the Christian is released from the law/ they die to the law he gave: thou shalt not covet as an example of why this is so. Are you seriously claiming, thou shalt not covet/ lust is only OC law, not NC Law?
    Are you Antinomian?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  16. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law( of righteousness) but under grace rom6:14

    It is impossible for the natural mind of man to understand a message that states:
    Believe sin cannot condemn you and sin shall not be your master/ believe you have righteousness before God apart from observing the law and sin shall not be your master.
    Only the Holy Spirit can turn on the light and enable anyone to see.
    For the religious who don't see, they quote the letter, they cannot live up to in their own lives. For:
    The letter kills.(2cor3:6)
    The letter Paul wrote of that kills is the letter of the law that exists today under the NC, as it did under the OC!
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  17. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That's right, in that the New Covenant/New Testament law repeats the ideas of the first and second of the 10 commandments of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Deuteronomy 5:7-10) in such verses as 1 Corinthians 8:4, Mark 12:29-30, and 1 John 5:21. The idea of the third of the 10 commandments (Deuteronomy 5:11) is amplified in the New Covenant to include our actions and not just our words (Titus 1:16). That is, we can profess the name of the LORD/YHWH, but we do so in vain if we don't obey Jesus Christ and God the Father (Matthew 7:21, Hebrews 5:9, Luke 6:46).

    The idea of the fourth of the 10 commandments of the Old Covenant (Deuteronomy 5:12-15) is amplified in the New Covenant to include every day of a Christian's life in Jesus Christ (Matthew 11:28-30, Hebrews 4:3,10, Luke 9:23). The idea of the fifth of the 10 commandments (Deuteronomy 5:16) is repeated in the New Covenant (Ephesians 6:1-3) and amplified to include honoring every person who's older than us (1 Timothy 5:1-2). The idea of the sixth of the 10 commandments (Deuteronomy 5:17) is repeated in the New Covenant (Revelation 21:8, Galatians 5:21) and amplified to include hatred by itself (1 John 3:15), or unjustified anger by itself, or name-calling by itself (Matthew 5:21-22).

    The idea of the seventh of the 10 commandments of the Old Covenant (Deuteronomy 5:18) is repeated in the New Covenant (Galatians 5:19-21) and amplified to include lust by itself (Matthew 5:28). The idea of the eighth of the 10 commandments (Deuteronomy 5:19) is repeated in the New Covenant (1 Corinthians 6:10). The idea of the ninth of the 10 commandments (Deuteronomy 5:20) is repeated in the New Covenant (Matthew 15:19, cf. Revelation 22:15c). The idea of the tenth of the 10 commandments (Deuteronomy 5:21) is repeated in the New Covenant (Luke 12:15, Ephesians 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:10).

    So there's no need to go back to the 10 commandments of the Old Covenant. The New Covenant has all of them covered. Indeed, the New Covenant forbids all manner of sins for those who want to be ultimately saved (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21).
     
  18. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
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    That's right, along with all the rest of the New Covenant/New Testament law, for:

    Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith YHWH:
    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith YHWH, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Because God/Jesus has put His entire New Covenant/New Testament law in the hearts of Christians (who have all been joined to Israel: Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), we must not say the following regarding God's/Jesus' New Covenant/New Testament law:

    For then we would be saying to Christians:

    "The Christian has no righteousness/justification of observing what God has put in the hearts of Christians.
    You are cursed if you rely on observing what God has put in your heart.
    The power of sin is what God has put in your heart.
    The Christian is released from what God has put in his heart."


    Of course, this makes no sense. And so Christians should still keep the New Covenant/New Testament law of Jesus Christ, for:

    John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
     
  19. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
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    Note that unrepentant sin can condemn Christians, for:

    1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

    This means if a Christian sees a fellow Christian commit a sin, before that fellow Christian dies it's possible for the first Christian to exhort him to repent from that sin (Hebrews 3:13), and to pray with him that God would forgive him for it (1 John 1:9). But 1 John 5:16b means it's possible for a Christian to wrongly employ his free will to commit a sin without repentance until he dies, at which point there's no use praying for forgiveness for that sin, for there's no forgiveness for sin which isn't repented from while someone is still alive (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:19-21).

    Note that Christians must observe the New Covenant/New Testament law in order to have righteousness, for:

    1 John 3:4 ¶Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    This, like 1 John 5:18 and 3 John 1:11b, means the initial salvation of Christians will be accompanied by them repenting from their sins and not continuing in them, at least for a while. What these verses don't mean is Christians lose their free will and become robots, unable to ever choose, sometime subsequent to their initial salvation and repentance, to commit a sin without ever repenting from it. For other verses show it's possible for Christians to do that, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).
     
  20. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

    +1,581
    Christian
    Single
    Most definatly the Christian has no righteousness before God of observing the law written on their minds and placed on their hearts.
    Most definitely you are cursed if you rely on observing the law written in your mind and placed on your heart for righteousness before God.
    Most definitely the power of sin is a law of righteousness concerning the law written in your mind and placed in your heart
    The Christian is released from a law if righteousness concerning the law written in their mind and placed on their heart.
    It makes no sense if you don't understand the gospel message Paul so wonderfully preached.

    Firstly, to be righteous/ justified before God by observing the law, requires 100 percent perfect obedience of the law. There is no pass mark of obedience to the law to be righteous before God by observing it. It is perfect obedience or no justification.
    Hence:
    All who rely on observing the law are under a curse... Gal3:10
    They are under a curse for they cannot faultlessly obey the law placed in their heart and subsequently be righteous before God by observing it.

    Confirmation:

    For whoever keeps the whole law, yet stumbles at JUST ONE POINT is guilty of breaking all of it James 2:10

    For if those who live by law are heirs faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath
    Rom4:14

    If you rely on observing the law to be righteous before God, faith has no value, therefore you are cut off from grace, for grace comes through faith. The reason law brings wrath is because you cannot meet the standard the law sets( perfection) to be righteous by observing it.
    Most definitely the power of sin is a law of righteousness concerning the law placed on your heart.
    The penalty of sin brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin.
    If I said to you: if you think of a pink rabbit God will condemn you to hell, what is the first thought that would come into your head if you believed me?

    The Christian is definitely released from a law of righteousness concerning the law placed in their heart.
    What is in your heart you in your heart desire to follow, that is why the law has been placed there. The true Christian does not want to obey through fear of hell if they don't. They want to obey because they love God and their heartfelt desire is to obey what is in their heart.
    The power of sin is the law( of righteousness) 1cor15:56

    So God did an amazing thing. He transferred the law he desires you to keep from an external law written on tablets of stone to an Internal law written on tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3) at the same time he did this, he removed the law of righteousness from the believer.
    Therefore the Christians heartfelt desire to obey( the law in their heart) can now come to fruition, for what opposes obedience( sin) was dealt a crushing blow by its true power being removed from the believers life(the law of righteousness)
    The law of righteousness is removed from the believer, the law itself remains intact, written in their mind and placed on their heart. The only people released from a law of righteousness are those who have the law God desires them to Keep written in their minds and placed on their hearts

    That's it in a nutshell.
    You now have two choices. Either you refuse to accept it, insisting you must be right, or, you can have far greater peace and happiness than you ever imagined possible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
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