Is Romans 7 inescapable?

[Gideons300]

It is a huge question, and with evil growing all around us, we need an answer desperately.

Are we meant to live out our lives trapped in Romans 7?

Is this the best God can do? Will our physical death have to accomplish in us what the death and resurrection of Jesus could not... deliver us from the power of darkness?

Has Jesus over-promised and under-delivered when He told us He would make us free indeed? And if our spirits rise up and say “No way!”, as they should, how do we escape Romans 7 forever and walk as overcomers in the blessedness of Romans 8?

Listen. There is a way. Those in the early church found it. The church in the last of the last days will to. To all who hunger for more..... more joy, more closeness with Jesus in prayer, more power over our enemy, there is one thing needed before our faith can come alive to claim it.

Hunger.

What was Paul’s mindset when the things he so wanted to avoid overtook him? He was found crying out for deliverance. He was not content to just be forgiven, but remaining imprisoned to a rebellious flesh as long as he drew breath. No, never. He saw himself as a wretched man, and hungered and thirsted for righteousness so he would bring glory and honor to God be living a life worthy to be called a child of God.

When we finally break before God and refuse to accept nothing less than victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are indeed yea and amen.

God’s will is that we pass through Romans 7, just as surely as the Israelites passed through the wilderness and entered the promised land. But like those 600,000 who ended up wandering for 40 years in a dry and weary land when the journey should have taken weeks, we too have ended up running laps in our own wilderness, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And why? Why is the bar set so low, where the best God can to is forgive us, but never set us free indeed? The exact same reason that those Israelites did.

Unbelief.

We have limited the Holy one of Israel, bound His hands to where He cannot free us from the sins that so easily beset us. He longs to, but we think that defeating the sins that have haunted us, bound us, is on OUR shoulders. We are wrong. And when we finally get that, and like the widow woman refusing to take no for an answer, beseech our God to do exactly as He has promised to do for us, set us free indeed, deliver us from the power of darkness, cause us to mount up with wings as eagles, and walk in real palpable victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are OURS. And why?

We serve the God who cannot lie.

Blessings, Gideon

 

[justbyfaith]

I would point the reader to the OP in the thread, Freedom from Sin: Overcoming the wet paint principle (the complete version) in the hamartiology section of General Theology on these boards. I have found that by having it printed out and by reading it every day, I am gaining the victory over the Romans 7 type of mentality through understanding what Romans 7 is really talking about. I believe that I have crossed over from easy-believism into a practical faith.

 

[Not me]

It is a huge question, and with evil growing all around us, we need an answer desperately.

Are we meant to live out our lives trapped in Romans 7?

Is this the best God can do? Will our physical death have to accomplish in us what the death and resurrection of Jesus could not... deliver us from the power of darkness?

Has Jesus over-promised and under-delivered when He told us He would make us free indeed? And if our spirits rise up and say “No way!”, as they should, how do we escape Romans 7 forever and walk as overcomers in the blessedness of Romans 8?

Listen. There is a way. Those in the early church found it. The church in the last of the last days will to. To all who hunger for more..... more joy, more closeness with Jesus in prayer, more power over our enemy, there is one thing needed before our faith can come alive to claim it.

Hunger.

What was Paul’s mindset when the things he so wanted to avoid overtook him? He was found crying out for deliverance. He was not content to just be forgiven, but remaining imprisoned to a rebellious flesh as long as he drew breath. No, never. He saw himself as a wretched man, and hungered and thirsted for righteousness so he would bring glory and honor to God be living a life worthy to be called a child of God.

When we finally break before God and refuse to accept nothing less than victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are indeed yea and amen.

God’s will is that we pass through Romans 7, just as surely as the Israelites passed through the wilderness and entered the promised land. But like those 600,000 who ended up wandering for 40 years in a dry and weary land when the journey should have taken weeks, we too have ended up running laps in our own wilderness, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And why? Why is the bar set so low, where the best God can to is forgive us, but never set us free indeed? The exact same reason that those Israelites did.

Unbelief.

We have limited the Holy one of Israel, bound His hands to where He cannot free us from the sins that so easily beset us. He longs to, but we think that defeating the sins that have haunted us, bound us, is on OUR shoulders. We are wrong. And when we finally get that, and like the widow woman refusing to take no for an answer, beseech our God to do exactly as He has promised to do for us, set us free indeed, deliver us from the power of darkness, cause us to mount up with wings as eagles, and walk in real palpable victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are OURS. And why?

We serve the God who cannot lie.

Blessings, Gideon

My brother in Christ;

One of the best post I have read, contains so much life. Blessing to you my friend.

The realization of our being “died in Christ” is certainly that truth that will do all for us that we need and want to have done. Will free the desiring soul from the bondage of a Romans 7 experience. That the body of Christ would come to see this truth by experience.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[bugkiller]

It is a huge question, and with evil growing all around us, we need an answer desperately.

Are we meant to live out our lives trapped in Romans 7?

Is this the best God can do? Will our physical death have to accomplish in us what the death and resurrection of Jesus could not... deliver us from the power of darkness?

Has Jesus over-promised and under-delivered when He told us He would make us free indeed? And if our spirits rise up and say “No way!”, as they should, how do we escape Romans 7 forever and walk as overcomers in the blessedness of Romans 8?

Listen. There is a way. Those in the early church found it. The church in the last of the last days will to. To all who hunger for more..... more joy, more closeness with Jesus in prayer, more power over our enemy, there is one thing needed before our faith can come alive to claim it.

Hunger.

What was Paul’s mindset when the things he so wanted to avoid overtook him? He was found crying out for deliverance. He was not content to just be forgiven, but remaining imprisoned to a rebellious flesh as long as he drew breath. No, never. He saw himself as a wretched man, and hungered and thirsted for righteousness so he would bring glory and honor to God be living a life worthy to be called a child of God.

When we finally break before God and refuse to accept nothing less than victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are indeed yea and amen.

God’s will is that we pass through Romans 7, just as surely as the Israelites passed through the wilderness and entered the promised land. But like those 600,000 who ended up wandering for 40 years in a dry and weary land when the journey should have taken weeks, we too have ended up running laps in our own wilderness, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And why? Why is the bar set so low, where the best God can to is forgive us, but never set us free indeed? The exact same reason that those Israelites did.

Unbelief.

We have limited the Holy one of Israel, bound His hands to where He cannot free us from the sins that so easily beset us. He longs to, but we think that defeating the sins that have haunted us, bound us, is on OUR shoulders. We are wrong. And when we finally get that, and like the widow woman refusing to take no for an answer, beseech our God to do exactly as He has promised to do for us, set us free indeed, deliver us from the power of darkness, cause us to mount up with wings as eagles, and walk in real palpable victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are OURS. And why?

We serve the God who cannot lie.

Blessings, Gideon

I really do not understand being trapped in Rom 7. I find much liberty in the chapter. There will be a never ending war between the body and the soul as long as the body lives. I promise a rose garden experience in the Christian life. Every beautiful rose garden requires manure. I do not think I can use the common word for manure here at CF. That 5 letter word implies much. It is used mainly to imply bad things. A most unfortunate thing about life - there is no escaping it. The colon is just as important as the mouth. So is the things that enter the mouth as the things excreted from the colon.

bugkiller

 

[justbyfaith]

dung is as important as food? By that logic, we should eat our own dung!

 

[justbyfaith]

My brother in Christ;

One of the best post I have read, contains so much life. Blessing to you my friend.

The realization of our being “died in Christ” is certainly that truth that will do all for us that we need and want to have done. Will free the desiring soul from the bondage of a Romans 7 experience. That the body of Christ would come to see this truth by experience.

Much love in Christ, Not me

I agree.

 

[fhansen]

It is a huge question, and with evil growing all around us, we need an answer desperately.

Are we meant to live out our lives trapped in Romans 7?

Is this the best God can do? Will our physical death have to accomplish in us what the death and resurrection of Jesus could not... deliver us from the power of darkness?

Has Jesus over-promised and under-delivered when He told us He would make us free indeed? And if our spirits rise up and say “No way!”, as they should, how do we escape Romans 7 forever and walk as overcomers in the blessedness of Romans 8?

Listen. There is a way. Those in the early church found it. The church in the last of the last days will to. To all who hunger for more..... more joy, more closeness with Jesus in prayer, more power over our enemy, there is one thing needed before our faith can come alive to claim it.

Hunger.

What was Paul’s mindset when the things he so wanted to avoid overtook him? He was found crying out for deliverance. He was not content to just be forgiven, but remaining imprisoned to a rebellious flesh as long as he drew breath. No, never. He saw himself as a wretched man, and hungered and thirsted for righteousness so he would bring glory and honor to God be living a life worthy to be called a child of God.

When we finally break before God and refuse to accept nothing less than victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are indeed yea and amen.

God’s will is that we pass through Romans 7, just as surely as the Israelites passed through the wilderness and entered the promised land. But like those 600,000 who ended up wandering for 40 years in a dry and weary land when the journey should have taken weeks, we too have ended up running laps in our own wilderness, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And why? Why is the bar set so low, where the best God can to is forgive us, but never set us free indeed? The exact same reason that those Israelites did.

Unbelief.

We have limited the Holy one of Israel, bound His hands to where He cannot free us from the sins that so easily beset us. He longs to, but we think that defeating the sins that have haunted us, bound us, is on OUR shoulders. We are wrong. And when we finally get that, and like the widow woman refusing to take no for an answer, beseech our God to do exactly as He has promised to do for us, set us free indeed, deliver us from the power of darkness, cause us to mount up with wings as eagles, and walk in real palpable victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are OURS. And why?

We serve the God who cannot lie.

Blessings, Gideon

I don't see why Rom 7 should be a problem, when Rom 7:24-25 give the key:
"What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

This is the basis of the New Covenant, that, "Apart from Me you can do nothing" John 15:5. But, "With God all things are possible" Matt 19:26. His whole intention, with justifying us, is to place His law in our minds and write it on our hearts, fulfilling the NC prophecy of Jer 31:33. God, alone, can make man righteous, the being He created us to be.

 

[Not me]

I don't see why Rom 7 should be a problem, when Rom 7:24-25 give the key:
"What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

This is the basis of the New Covenant, that, "Apart from Me you can do nothing" John 15:5. But, "With God all things are possible" Matt 19:26. His whole intention, with justifying us, is to place His law in our minds and write it on our hearts, fulfilling the NC prophecy of Jer 31:33. God, alone, can make man righteous, the being He created us to be.

Not all believers go through a Romans 7 experience, but many do. (a constant struggle to overcome those nagging and persistent sins). The knowledge of what our salvation in Christ consists of, not only keeps one out of a Romans 7 experience, but is itself also the cure for the Romans 7 experience.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[fhansen]

Not all believers go through a Romans 7 experience, but many do. (a constant struggle to overcome those nagging and persistent sins). The knowledge of what our salvation in Christ consists of, not only keeps one out of a Romans 7 experience, but is itself also the cure for the Romans 7 experience.

Much love in Christ, Not me

Thank you- I agree. Except to say that I think most if not all of us go through some kind of Rom 7 experience in that we'll struggle in one way or another with nagging and persistent sins, or in any case with being attracted to and distracted by things that are of no eternal value.

 

[bugkiller]

dung is as important as food? By that logic, we should eat our own dung!

Where do you think your food comes from? The grocery store where is is all nice and clean?

If you did not eliminate what would happen?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

dung is as important as food? By that logic, we should eat our own dung!

No, it is the cycle. In that cycle we eat our own dung or that of another. You must be a city person.

bugkiller

 

[Gideons300]

I really do not understand being trapped in Rom 7. I find much liberty in the chapter. There will be a never ending war between the body and the soul as long as the body lives. I promise a rose garden experience in the Christian life. Every beautiful rose garden requires manure. I do not think I can use the common word for manure here at CF. That 5 letter word implies much. It is used mainly to imply bad things. A most unfortunate thing about life - there is no escaping it. The colon is just as important as the mouth. So is the things that enter the mouth as the things excreted from the colon.

bugkiller

Sddly, what you describe is the “new” definition of what liberty means to Christians. Jesus talked about setting us free indeed. Do we remember what His definition was? He said “He that commits sin is a servant to sin.” He then followed that up with “But whom the Son sets fre is free indeed.” Listen, when Jesus taught us to pray “Deliver us from evil”, He meant it.

If we are truly both the black dog and the white dog, constantly fighting inside us, there is no rest there. There is no peace. And because our consciences offend us, there is no power in prayer. And because sin continues in our lives, and sadly, more often than not, it is willful sin, we harden our hearts, slowly allowing our faith to be morphed into head knowledge.

God’s will is that we know how to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor. And if we do not know how, it would be far better to fall to our knees , and as wretched men, admit to God we do not know how, and cry out to our Father for deliverance from such a life that brings no honor to God.

Sadly, far too many have made Romans 7 a fine place to rest and live out our lives, and proclaim to the world that this is the best God can do, and that physical death is needed to accomplish what Christ living in us could not, defeat willful sin within us.

So with pardons in hand, and with hearts weighed down with the cares and pleasures of this world, we decorate our prison cells, even though the door is wide open and we are free to leave, and as we clang our chains in unison, we sing another rousing verse about how free Jesus can make us.

May I ask a question? Ok, several, lol.

Why would Jesus tell us that our shields of faith would quench ALL the fiery arrows Satan theos at us, if in fact, that is not the case?

Does Paul not tell us in Romans 8 that we are no longer in the flesh and owe it nothing?

Didn’t God promise to not let us be tempted above our ability to resist, and that He would make a way of escape so we could bear it and not fall?

What happened to God causing us to will AND to do of His good pleasure?

We have accepted lies that sound reasonable but simply end up calling God a liar. When we finally can admit that and bow before Him, beseeching Him to tell us how to walk in purity, how to become fruitful, we will find our answer, the second half of the gospel, the part where we really put on our new natures and walk victorious over the world, the flesh and the devil.

Forgive me, BK, if my answer may come across a bit short. That is far, far from my intent. I know you are just speaking out what millions of followers of Christ have been taught. We have all been sleeping, overdosing on unbelief, and with me at the head of the pack for 38 years. But God in His mercy is beginning to awaken all of us to “the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe”.

Amazing days are ahead. Even for the doubting Thomases like I was.

Blessings to you,

Gideon

 

[Greg J.]

Sin is a part of our nature life until we physically die, even for those who have stopped sinning entirely. No one can change that, and God never will. (Nothing can undo sin; it passes away or is destroyed.) Recognizing our identity—who we are—in Christ is a wonderful part of being born again. We are forgiven, loved, and accepted by God, but not because we no longer have the taint of sin. God has given us a sinless rebirth (who we really are), but we still have this tent of a body, which truly is a part of us, until God separates us from it.

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. (Psalms 116:15, 1984 NIV)

[EDIT: crossed out an incorrect statement]

 

[Gideons300]

Sin is a part of our nature until we physically die, even for those who have stopped sinning entirely. No one can change that, and God never will. (Nothing can undo sin; it passes away or is destroyed.) Recognizing our identity—who we are—in Christ is a wonderful part of being born again. We are forgiven, loved, and accepted by God, but not because we no longer have the taint of sin. God has given us a sinless rebirth (who we really are), but we still have this tent of a body, which truly is a part of us, until God separates us from it.

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. (Psalms 116:15, 1984 NIV)

Brother, I mean no disrespect, but that is not what the Word of God says. We have been given new natures. But how many there are who have never put off their old ones, making it impossible to put on their new ones.

Please understand, I am not in any way preaching sinless perfectionism. That is based upon an “achievement” that man does. Impossible. But God has said He can and will keep us from falling if we trust Him to do so. He has given us shields of faith that WORK. He has assured us that He will not allow us to be tempted more than we are able to bear. Is God a liar? Does He over-promise and under-deliver?

We are not dual-natured people. We are not part black dog and part white dog. The black dog is dead! We are told a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, then told to make our tree good. So how do we do that? By faith! We reckon ourselves dead to sin because God has clearly told us that He has delivered us from the power of darkness. We believe that we are truly men with new natures now.

Yes, we are still housed in fleshly bodies, but we no longer have fleshly natures. Paul makes that crystal clear in Romans 8 and tells us we now owe the old nature nothing.

As long as our testimony is that we will still sin, we will, for our shield of faith is laying on the ground. But praise God, when a man is desperate to get free from the sins that so easily beset him, and cries out to Jesus to set him free indeed just as Jesus promised, our savior delivers just as He said He would.

Can a man sin who has reckoned himself dead to sin? Of course! After all, he stands by faith, and our faith must grow! We are called to fight our good fight of faith and no matter what Satan throws at us, we are to stand believing we are new people. IF we slip (not when but if)? We repent, get up, dust ourselves off.....and believe again. And guess what? We begin to become established in the faith, and the wicked one touches us not.

We are called to live victorious over the role, the flesh and the devil. How do we get there if in truth, we believe it is impossible? No, we get there by combining the blood of the lamb with the words of OUR testimony, and to our amazement, when we do, God does exactly what He has promised to do. He causes us..... yes, you read that right....causes us to walk in full obedience.

Can our God be that good? Oh yes, dear brother, oh, yes! We are even now being awakened to this truth. Our unbelief has, up until now, prevented God from freeing us to walk in the glorious liberty of the children of God. Why? Because it is always, always, always according to our faith be it unto us.

The church, long languishing in Romans 7, with no real hope of ever escaping our fallen nature, is about to rise from the ashes of religion and become the bride prepared to meet her bridegroom. Amazing days are ahead. Thank you, Lord, for never giving up on us.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Soyeong]

It is a huge question, and with evil growing all around us, we need an answer desperately.

Are we meant to live out our lives trapped in Romans 7?

Is this the best God can do? Will our physical death have to accomplish in us what the death and resurrection of Jesus could not... deliver us from the power of darkness?

Has Jesus over-promised and under-delivered when He told us He would make us free indeed? And if our spirits rise up and say “No way!”, as they should, how do we escape Romans 7 forever and walk as overcomers in the blessedness of Romans 8?

Listen. There is a way. Those in the early church found it. The church in the last of the last days will to. To all who hunger for more..... more joy, more closeness with Jesus in prayer, more power over our enemy, there is one thing needed before our faith can come alive to claim it.

Hunger.

What was Paul’s mindset when the things he so wanted to avoid overtook him? He was found crying out for deliverance. He was not content to just be forgiven, but remaining imprisoned to a rebellious flesh as long as he drew breath. No, never. He saw himself as a wretched man, and hungered and thirsted for righteousness so he would bring glory and honor to God be living a life worthy to be called a child of God.

When we finally break before God and refuse to accept nothing less than victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are indeed yea and amen.

God’s will is that we pass through Romans 7, just as surely as the Israelites passed through the wilderness and entered the promised land. But like those 600,000 who ended up wandering for 40 years in a dry and weary land when the journey should have taken weeks, we too have ended up running laps in our own wilderness, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And why? Why is the bar set so low, where the best God can to is forgive us, but never set us free indeed? The exact same reason that those Israelites did.

Unbelief.

We have limited the Holy one of Israel, bound His hands to where He cannot free us from the sins that so easily beset us. He longs to, but we think that defeating the sins that have haunted us, bound us, is on OUR shoulders. We are wrong. And when we finally get that, and like the widow woman refusing to take no for an answer, beseech our God to do exactly as He has promised to do for us, set us free indeed, deliver us from the power of darkness, cause us to mount up with wings as eagles, and walk in real palpable victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to our amazement, we will discover that all the promises of God are OURS. And why?

We serve the God who cannot lie.

Blessings, Gideon

As a US citizen, I have the freedom to do many things which I do not employ. Someone can remain in a jail cell even though the door has been flung open. So the fact that we do not use freedoms that we have been given does not mean that we have not been freed. By grace we have been given the power of God to overcome sin in our lives, but we still need to use it.

 

[Greg J.]

Brother, I mean no disrespect, but that is not what the Word of God says. We have been given new natures. But how many there are who have never put off their old ones, making it impossible to put on their new ones.

Please understand, I am not in any way preaching sinless perfectionism. That is based upon an “achievement” that man does. Impossible. But God has said He can and will keep us from falling if we trust Him to do so. He has given us shields of faith that WORK. He has assured us that He will not allow us to be tempted more than we are able to bear. Is God a liar? Does He over-promise and under-deliver?

We are not dual-natured people. We are not part black dog and part white dog. The black dog is dead! We are told a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, then told to make our tree good. So how do we do that? By faith! We reckon ourselves dead to sin because God has clearly told us that He has delivered us from the power of darkness. We believe that we are truly men with new natures now.

Yes, we are still housed in fleshly bodies, but we no longer have fleshly natures. Paul makes that crystal clear in Romans 8 and tells us we now owe the old nature nothing.

As long as our testimony is that we will still sin, we will, for our shield of faith is laying on the ground. But praise God, when a man is desperate to get free from the sins that so easily beset him, and cries out to Jesus to set him free indeed just as Jesus promised, our savior delivers just as He said He would.

Can a man sin who has reckoned himself dead to sin? Of course! After all, he stands by faith, and our faith must grow! We are called to fight our good fight of faith and no matter what Satan throws at us, we are to stand believing we are new people. IF we slip (not when but if)? We repent, get up, dust ourselves off.....and believe again. And guess what? We begin to become established in the faith, and the wicked one touches us not.

We are called to live victorious over the role, the flesh and the devil. How do we get there if in truth, we believe it is impossible? No, we get there by combining the blood of the lamb with the words of OUR testimony, and to our amazement, when we do, God does exactly what He has promised to do. He causes us..... yes, you read that right....causes us to walk in full obedience.

Can our God be that good? Oh yes, dear brother, oh, yes! We are even now being awakened to this truth. Our unbelief has, up until now, prevented God from freeing us to walk in the glorious liberty of the children of God. Why? Because it is always, always, always according to our faith be it unto us.

The church, long languishing in Romans 7, with no real hope of ever escaping our fallen nature, is about to rise from the ashes of religion and become the bride prepared to meet her bridegroom. Amazing days are ahead. Thank you, Lord, for never giving up on us.

Blessings,

Gideon

Who we really are is reborn sinless in Christ, but that does not mean we no longer have a sinful nature. Paul says he had one in Romans 7:18 and Romans 7:25 in the present tense.

In the most of the rest of the passages in the NT (many in Romans 8 and Galatians 5) where Paul used the phrase "sinful nature" (1984 NIV), we can see that he speaks of choosing to live according to our new nature, not the sinful nature—but that is a choice, a process, and gifting from God.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8, 1984 NIV)

 

[justbyfaith]

I would think that 1 John 1:8 was never intended to cancel out 1 John 1:7, which says, "If we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have koinoneia one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin."

 

[Greg J.]

It is not an attempt to contradict the previous verse, of course. Walking in the light is a process. To be doing that is to be working out our salvation—an effect of being saved—our part being to continue to choose to be obedient.

To be without sin is a claim someone might make, which is terribly incorrect.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

Judges Chapter 7

Great Stuff !

You blow the Ram's horn rather well & I can see you have smashed the clay jar holding the candle
As simple as the illustration is - just how did you manage to smash the clay jar? What were the key steps for you?

 

[FIRESTORM314]