Is Revelations actually PRE Christian?

[Phantasman]

I wouldn't doubt it, myself.

Can A Pre-Christian Version of the Book of Revelation Be Recovered? – Biblical Archaeology Society

 

[timewerx]

If I bring up my "trust no one" mindset, I would say Revelations is a Zionist propaganda.

Fits the Talmud more suitably. Pro Judaism, but remember Judaism is not Christianity!

 

[Ran77]

Interesting topic.

 

[daq]

If I bring up my "trust no one" mindset, I would say Revelations is a Zionist propaganda.

Fits the Talmud more suitably. Pro Judaism, but remember Judaism is not Christianity!

Revelation 1:1 Transliterated Unaccented Bible
1. Apokalupsis Iesou Christou hen edoken auto hoTheos deixai tois doulois autou ha dei genesthai entachei. Kai esemanen aposteilas dia tou angelou autouto doulo autou Ioanne,

Galatians 1:12 Transliterated Unaccented Bible
12. oude gar ego para anthropou parelabon auto outeedidachthen alla di apokalupseos Iesou Christou.

Galatians 1:11-12 KJV
11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Yep, more "Zionist propaganda" from 29AD to which even Paulos fell "victim" . . .

 

[Phantasman]

Revelation 1:1 Transliterated Unaccented Bible
1. Apokalupsis Iesou Christou hen edoken auto hoTheos deixai tois doulois autou ha dei genesthai entachei. Kai esemanen aposteilas dia tou angelou autouto doulo autou Ioanne,

Galatians 1:12 Transliterated Unaccented Bible
12. oude gar ego para anthropou parelabon auto outeedidachthen alla di apokalupseos Iesou Christou.

Galatians 1:11-12 KJV
11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Yep, more "Zionist propaganda" from 29AD to which even Paulos fell "victim" . . .

A revelation and Revelations are different, IMO. Though Paul did express strong Jewish backings intertwined in his revelations.

The Gospels are surrounded by half truths, IMO. Caused by the battle of Gods. I'm sure the disciples asked Jesus more than 1000 questions while he was here. And we only read some of the answers (in the Bible) and don't accept some in other places.

 

[daq]

A revelation and Revelations are different, IMO. Though Paul did express strong Jewish backings intertwined in his revelations.

The Gospels are surrounded by half truths, IMO. Caused by the battle of Gods. I'm sure the disciples asked Jesus more than 1000 questions while he was here. And we only read some of the answers (in the Bible) and don't accept some in other places.

Galatians 1:12 contains a singular form of "revelation" showing the KJV to be correct.
The occurrence in 2 Corinthians 12:1 contains a plural form:

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΗΣΟΥ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεὸς δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνει,

GSN#602 ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ - "Revelation" (1 of 1) N-NFS (Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular).
Revelation 1:1 Greek Text Analysis

ΠΡΟΣ ΓΑΛΑΤΑΣ 1:12 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτό, οὔτε ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.

GSN#602 ἀποκαλύψεως - "a revelation" (2 of 3) N-GFS (Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular).
Galatians 1:12 Greek Text Analysis

ΠΡΟΣ ΚΟΡΙΝΘΙΟΥΣ Β΄ 12:1 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
Καυχᾶσθαι δεῖ· οὐ συμφέρον μέν, ἐλεύσομαι δὲ εἰς ὀπτασίας καὶ ἀποκαλύψεις Κυρίου.

GSN#602 ἀποκαλύψεις - "revelations" (1 of 1) N-AFP (Noun - Accusative Feminine Plural).
2 Corinthians 12:1 Greek Text Analysis

In addition to this entry level surface-scratching of information should one truly be expected to believe that Yeshua sat down at the right hand of God and then received the Revelation of himself to give to Yochanan? How is it possible that Yeshua could receive anymore revelation whatsoever after already being in the presence of God and seated at his right hand? Wouldn't he already know all things by that point? Should I be expected to simply shut off my mind and believe such an impossible supposition? Would it not be more likely that Yeshua received the Revelation during the wilderness trial during the forty days immediately following his immersion under Yochanan? After all, we are clearly told that he was with the therion-"wild beasts" in the Gospel of Mark and that is the same word used for "the beast" in the Revelation of Yeshua Christou.

Mark 1:9-15 KJV
9. And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11. And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
12. And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
13. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
14. Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

 

[granpa]

many people in the new and old testament saw the vision of revelation

 

[Phantasman]

Galatians 1:12 contains a singular form of "revelation" showing the KJV to be correct.
The occurrence in 2 Corinthians 12:1 contains a plural form:

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 1:1 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΗΣΟΥ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ, ἣν ἔδωκεν αὐτῷ ὁ θεὸς δεῖξαι τοῖς δούλοις αὐτοῦ, ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει, καὶ ἐσήμανεν ἀποστείλας διὰ τοῦ ἀγγέλου αὐτοῦ τῷ δούλῳ αὐτοῦ Ἰωάνει,

GSN#602 ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ - "Revelation" (1 of 1) N-NFS (Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular).
Revelation 1:1 Greek Text Analysis

ΠΡΟΣ ΓΑΛΑΤΑΣ 1:12 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτό, οὔτε ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.

GSN#602 ἀποκαλύψεως - "a revelation" (2 of 3) N-GFS (Noun - Genitive Feminine Singular).
Galatians 1:12 Greek Text Analysis

ΠΡΟΣ ΚΟΡΙΝΘΙΟΥΣ Β΄ 12:1 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
Καυχᾶσθαι δεῖ· οὐ συμφέρον μέν, ἐλεύσομαι δὲ εἰς ὀπτασίας καὶ ἀποκαλύψεις Κυρίου.

GSN#602 ἀποκαλύψεις - "revelations" (1 of 1) N-AFP (Noun - Accusative Feminine Plural).
2 Corinthians 12:1 Greek Text Analysis

In addition to this entry level surface-scratching of information should one truly be expected to believe that Yeshua sat down at the right hand of God and then received the Revelation of himself to give to Yochanan? How is it possible that Yeshua could receive anymore revelation whatsoever after already being in the presence of God and seated at his right hand? Wouldn't he already know all things by that point? Should I be expected to simply shut off my mind and believe such an impossible supposition? Would it not be more likely that Yeshua received the Revelation during the wilderness trial during the forty days immediately following his immersion under Yochanan? After all, we are clearly told that he was with the therion-"wild beasts" in the Gospel of Mark and that is the same word used for "the beast" in the Revelation of Yeshua Christou.

Mark 1:9-15 KJV
9. And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11. And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
12. And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
13. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
14. Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15. And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Yeah. Every time I attempt to study Revelations, I get a spiritual feeling to leave it be. Like it was not intended to be studied. I don't argue, just follow. And I find so many Gospel passages (Canon and non) to back up the act.

Not only was Mark correct in the fulfillment, but James said Christ said the head of prophesy was ended with John (the Baptist). Although, Christ did speak of the coming Jewish Revolt of 66AD, since his disciples were going to be there for it.

 

[daq]

Yeah. Every time I attempt to study Revelations, I get a spiritual feeling to leave it be. Like it was not intended to be studied. I don't argue, just follow. And I find so many Gospel passages (Canon and non) to back up the act.

Not only was Mark correct in the fulfillment, but James said Christ said the head of prophesy was ended with John (the Baptist). Although, Christ did speak of the coming Jewish Revolt of 66AD, since his disciples were going to be there for it.

If John was the greatest of all the prophets, as Yeshua said, then where are his great writings or at least a book? Perhaps when you read the Revelation of Yeshua you are indeed reading the "water" baptism of John, (for he plainly states that he is the one who baptizes with water and according to the Master everyone must be born of WATER and SPIRIT to see and enter the kingdom). Likewise, yes, Yeshua clearly says that all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied UNTIL John. If they prophesied UNTIL John then he is indeed the beginning of the fulfillment of those things prophesied. Thus he, being the forerunner of Messiah, is much more critical to the whole equation than what most are led to believe concerning his mission. By the Way, Yochanan remains the forerunner of Messiah because this is Eliyahu who was for to come. He has the mashiyach spirit-anointing of Eliyahu-Elijah as per the first chapter of Luke by the words of the messenger Gabriel. The same mashiyach is the one who was cut off, karath, beheaded, from the famous Daniel 9 passage and left with nothing, (or "was not"). Messiah is the Nagiyd-Prince-Commander of the Covenant from the same passage. When Messiah was crucified he was not "anathema-cut-off-excommunicated" and "left with nothing" because, as he says, that of those whom he was given he lost none. Neither did the Father turn or hide his face from the Son, (Psalm 22:24) but when he cried unto him; the Father heard him, (Revelation 19:10-21).