Is Repentance necessary for salvation ?

[cygnusx1]

There are those who will agree that Repentance being part of The gospel is also part of salvation ' that we must repent and that we aren't saved unless we do repent .

There are others who deny this .

What say you ?

 

[Ignatius21]

Repentance means to turn from sin, and turn toward God. From darkness to light.

How can anyone be saved from sin and darkness if they don't turn from it?

 

[Steeno7]

There are those who will agree that Repentance being part of The gospel is also part of salvation ' that we must repent and that we aren't saved unless we do repent .

There are others who deny this .

What say you ?

I say that the sin of the world is that they do not believe in the Son. To believe in the Son is to repent of your sin of unbelief.

And that as a response to the gospel not as a part of it.

 

[cygnusx1]

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10,

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (ESV)

So those who teach or believe salvation is simply by faith , and repentance isn't necessary are making a nonsense of this scripture ?

 

[sdowney717]

Jesus said this, to repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Jesus Begins His Galilean Ministry

12 Now when Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, He departed to Galilee. 13 And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:

15 “The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,
By the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan,
Galilee of the Gentiles:
16 The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light,
And upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death
Light has dawned.”[f]
17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

And

Matthew 9:13
New King James Version (NKJV)

13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

So yeah, repent ye therefore and be baptized and you shall receive the promise.

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

The elect have to repent, at least those of sound mind will.

 

[AndOne]

I believe repentance is a result of true faith and if faith is genuine it will occur. In that respect I believe it is necessary for salvation.

Keep in mind it's not the repentance that saves - it's the saving faith that results in repentance - every single time.

 

[hedrick]

Like many other questions, it depends. There's repentance and there's repentance. At the core to repent means to turn around. As such, turning to God can reasonably be seen as repentance. This is probably what Jesus meant in the passage quoted. That would seem to be necessary.

However I have two caveats.

The first is an exception: what about someone who grows up as Christian. It does happen. They need to be a disciple. But suppose they grew up in a Christian home and a Church, and were never conscious of *not* being a disciple. There comes a time when you want them to take responsibility for their faith themselves. But still, it might not truly be repentance in the sense of turning to Christ from having been outside Christ.

Then there's repentance for individual sins. We are also commanded to do that. But no one recognizes all of their sins, and no doubt even those that we do, we don't always properly repent of. It is easy to turn the demand to repent into something legalistic. This was one of Luther's problems before his conversion: he was always afraid he had forgotten a sin or that he hadn't repented properly. I'd say this is a kind of repentance that comes from living a Christian life. It's a result of salvation (or using my definition of salvation, a part of salvation), but it's not something you have to do first.

But the general turning from living on our own to following Christ, that is (aside from the exception I noted) part of becoming a disciple, and entering into salvation.

 

[Hillsage]

There are those who will agree that Repentance being part of The gospel is also part of salvation ' that we must repent and that we aren't saved unless we do repent .

There are others who deny this .

What say you ?

The Greek word for repent is metanoeo and is defined as;
'to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally feel compunction)'.

Based upon the definition, I believe salvation is impossible without "thinking differently" at some point prior to receiving initial salvation.

I personally don't believe, as Ignatius21, that it means to 'turn from sin and turn to God'. The reason I don't is because Jesus himself had to undergo John's baptism which was a "baptism of repentance". He even stated that it was something that needed to be done to "fulfill righteousness". I personally believe that Jesus 'repented/changed his thinking' from that of following the law (because he fulfilled it). He then graduated to the higher calling of being led of the Spirit (which he received after his baptism) . From then on he only did what 'saw/heard' from the Father.

 

[sdowney717]

The Greek word for repent is metanoeo and is defined as;
'to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally feel compunction)'.

Based upon the definition, I believe salvation is impossible without "thinking differently" at some point prior to receiving initial salvation.

I personally don't believe, as Ignatius21, that it means to 'turn from sin and turn to God'. The reason I don't is because Jesus himself had to undergo John's baptism which was a "baptism of repentance". He even stated that it was something that needed to be done to "fulfill righteousness". I personally believe that Jesus 'repented/changed his thinking' from that of following the law (because he fulfilled it). He then graduated to the higher calling of being led of the Spirit (which he received after his baptism) . From then on he only did what 'saw/heard' from the Father.

Jesus did not need to repent, He was perfect Lamb of God.
Jesus knew where he came from, what He was going to do and where He was going.

The need for repentance is because of sin.
No sin, no need to repent.
The change your mind, turn around is the idea of faith towards God versus no faith towards God, forsaking your wicked ways versus continuing in them..

 

[Hillsage]

Jesus did not need to repent, He was perfect Lamb of God.
Jesus knew where he came from, what He was going to do and where He was going.

I agree he did not need to repent for sin.

The need for repentance is because of sin.
No sin, no need to repent..

Your thoughts on a few verses?

Amos 7:6 The LORD repented for this: This also shall not be, saith the Lord GOD.

Jonah 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

I guess I'm still of the opinion that the Greek def of 'change your mind' still lines up with the Hebrew verses above.

ACT 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you "repent toward God" or 'repent from sin' according to your thinking/definition?


2 Timothy 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth,

So if it is up to God for you to repent of your sin, if you don't repent, then is it His fault?

I think my definition still makes more sense when applied to scriptures like these. You may still disagree...and that's OK.

 

[corinth77777]

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10,

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (ESV)

So those who teach or believe salvation is simply by faith , and repentance isn't necessary are making a nonsense of this scripture ?

lost me?

 

[sdowney717]

I agree he did not need to repent for sin.

Your thoughts on a few verses?

Amos 7:6 The LORD repented for this: This also shall not be, saith the Lord GOD.

Jonah 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

I guess I'm still of the opinion that the Greek def of 'change your mind' still lines up with the Hebrew verses above.

ACT 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you "repent toward God" or 'repent from sin' according to your thinking/definition?


2 Timothy 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth,

So if it is up to God for you to repent of your sin, if you don't repent, then is it His fault?

I think my definition still makes more sense when applied to scriptures like these. You may still disagree...and that's OK.

My reference point when I mentioned repentance is man, not from God's pov.

Consider the word 'relented' and these verses, where God relented,
example

Exodus 32:14

So the Lord relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Relented is the same action when you read God repented of something He was going to do for His own reasons. Judgement though is simply delayed many times, it's finality will be realized at a future time.

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: relented

 

[sdowney717]

So if it is up to God for you to repent of your sin, if you don't repent, then is it His fault?

Example, blindness here come from God on part of mankind.
Note v36

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[h]
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”[j]
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

And hardening, comes from the Lord onto men to fulfill His words that He has spoken and His purposes on the earth.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”[f] 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[sdowney717]

So if it is up to God for you to repent of your sin, if you don't repent, then is it His fault?

Fault, the word gives the sense of laying blame for a wrong committed.
But God is good, just, perfect in all His ways.

Consider this here, and note all these people all over the earth, God has put into their hearts His plans to fulfill His purposes.

I read God doing a lot of interventions, all according to His will, don't you agree? A God in control not just letting everything run amok.

15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which you saw on[d] the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

 

[sdowney717]

When God decides to do something, it happens.
God can not lie, He tells us in His word what He does with people, and God does overcome your will.

Luke 11:2

New King James Version (NKJV)
2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say:

Our Father in heaven,[a]
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.

His will not ours be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Jesus said that I think for our sakes to affirm God is in charge down here on lowly earth just as HE is in charge in heaven. It reads to me also as a command showing He is in charge, like 'let there be light' and it was so. This is not a request, It is our prayer to God acknowledging He is Lord over the earth, and it for our sakes, our understanding to pray this way. His ways not our ways.

19 “God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
20 Behold, I have received a command to bless;
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.

The earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof.

24 The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness,
The world and those who dwell therein.
2 For He has founded it upon the seas,
And established it upon the waters.

God will do all His good pleasure, God has ownership rights to the earth and the people on the earth.

 

[Hillsage]

I read God doing a lot of interventions, all according to His will, don't you agree? A God in control not just letting everything run amok.

Welllll, I do agree, but I also think I see a lot of running amok. God has 'all control', but I don't think He is 'all controlling'.

When God decides to do something, it happens.
God can not lie, He tells us in His word what He does with people, and God does overcome your will.

PHI 2:13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

His will not ours be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Jesus said that I think for our sakes to affirm God is in charge down here on lowly earth just as HE is in charge in heaven.

I'm not so sure. It is a prayer for the future I think. "thy kingdom come" isn't saying it's fully here IMO. I think it is a prayer asking for that fulfillment 'to be'. If His kingdom was 'fully here' then there wouldn't be any 'running amok' IMO.

It reads to me also as a command showing He is in charge, like 'let there be light' and it was so. This is not a request,

I don't think being 'in charge' necessitates complete manipulation. If it does then why did we need a savior to be sent?

It is our prayer to God acknowledging He is Lord over the earth, and it for our sakes, our understanding to pray this way. His ways not our ways.

I agree He IS Lord, but every time we say "NO" and do 'our ways'/will and not His, then He is not 'our Lord', even though He is Lord. Does that make sense? "No Lord", is an oxymoron.

 

[cygnusx1]

lost me?

If repenting , turning away from sin isn't part of the Gospel message then men would have licence to sin , sinning with impunity .

This scripture would be pointless ,

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10,

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (ESV)

So those who teach or believe salvation is simply by faith , and repentance isn't necessary are making a nonsense of this scripture ?

 

[Steeno7]

If repenting , turning away from sin isn't part of the Gospel message then men would have licence to sin , sinning with impunity .

This scripture would be pointless ,

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10,

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (ESV)

So those who teach or believe salvation is simply by faith , and repentance isn't necessary are making a nonsense of this scripture ?

You don't need a license to sin, you sin fine without one. The gospel message is all Jesus and what He has accomplished for sinners. Man is not a part of the gospel at all, nor is mans response to it a part of it. If you place man in it you have created "another gospel" which is really no gospel at all.

 

[cygnusx1]

You don't need a license to sin, you sin fine without one. The gospel message is all Jesus and what He has accomplished for sinners. Man is not a part of the gospel at all, nor is mans response to it a part of it. If you place man in it you have created "another gospel" which is really no gospel at all.

What are you on about ?

If man is not "part of the Gospel at all"

Then your statement

"The gospel message is all Jesus and what He has accomplished for sinners"

Is false .

Try making sense

 

[cygnusx1]

Do these verses not explicitly teach man must be changed in order to be saved ?
That believing isn't enough (James)

That if a person does not truly repent and turn from sin then he cannot be saved ?

1Cor 6:9,10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Ephesians 5:5,6 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person— such a man is an idolater— has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.

James 1:15,16 after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

James 1:26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

1John 3:7,8 Little children, let no one lead you astray. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.