Is repentance a "one time act" or is it, or should it be "a way of life" (here)...?

[ToBeLoved]

Maybe I should just copy paste all of the sites claiming Hebrews was written by Paul vs the ones claiming not.

OOOPs, that won't work, because it's basically a 95 to 5 ratio of those believing Paul wrote it!!

What is the issue even WHO wrote Hebrews?

Your not making any point.

A bunch of words with no point that I can see

 

[servantofiam]

Please don’t put words in my mouth.

Address my ‘actual’ words instead of misleading the conversation

The portion you copied/pasted, if you notice has a (?) at the end of it. I was asking if that was what you thought in a round about way, not putting words in your mouth!!

 

[servantofiam]

Your opinion and understanding of scripture is so solid you see no reason to pray about it?

I would think a bit about that statement

Well of course I pray!!

But as I stated in the other thread concerning baptisms and we ended up divulging into the "Tongues/Holy Spirit" debacle. I had the fortunes of being heir to my Grandfather and Father who taught Bible college, evangelized, preached/pastor notes, personal work, books, study guides, concordances w/personal notations which equaled to over 110 years of literal devotion to the Bible, it's meaning, interpretations, and gained knowledge of how the Holy Spirit gave them understanding.

 

[Christus Victor]

Is repentance a "one time act" or is it, or should it be "a way of life" (here) (while we are here)...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

I believe it was a one time act that should generate a way of life.

 

[servantofiam]

I don’t have a problem with what you choose to do, I think posting it as a resource in a theological post is odd.

I thought it would be interesting to see something I definitely had not, nor do I believe I know of anyone personal who had, and maybe even on this forum....... that considered the Book of Hebrews to have been an actual sermon preached by Paul, and then later wrote down in the format we now know by none other than Luke, who wrote the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts.

 

[servantofiam]

What is the issue even WHO wrote Hebrews?

Your not making any point.

A bunch of words with no point that I can see

One of the posters involved in this specific chat I understood to believe and feels the Book of Hebrews was not written by Paul. And also made the claim that the majority of Biblical Scholars agree it was not written by Paul. But every search engine I used from Bing - Google, and a few others all revealed that the majority of people overwhelmingly in general believe Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews.

 

[servantofiam]

I believe it was a one time act that should generate a way of life.

Just shouting out a welcome to the forums and site and hope you enjoy it!!

 

[ToBeLoved]

The portion you copied/pasted, if you notice has a (?) at the end of it. I was asking if that was what you thought in a round about way, not putting words in your mouth!!

What I have found after 5 years on this forum is their are two kinds of posts.

The first is where the person makes a totally unrelated and hypothetical statement about the other person to deflect from the topic or questions they don’t want to answer

OR

The second, which is what I personally do, which is to continue to ask questions and let the person themselves write further and clarify their position.


God tells us in the 10 Commandments not to bear false witness. To me it is sad that Christians do not approach each other, with respect as the second scenario and stop using the first.

Another sad part of the first scenario is also that it makes the replying poster address the false allegation further derailing the conversation

 

[ToBeLoved]

One of the posters involved in this specific chat I understood to believe and feels the Book of Hebrews was not written by Paul. And also made the claim that the majority of Biblical Scholars agree it was not written by Paul. But every search engine I used from Bing - Google, and a few others all revealed that the majority of people overwhelmingly in general believe Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews.

Well this is also a forum problem where people get off topic and derail threads rather than open a new thread to discuss these things.

It should be the threads OP that keeps posts on topic.

 

[Neogaia777]

I believe it was a one time act that should generate a way of life.

What kind of way of life...? One where you walk in pride...? or not...? And if not, how do you stay truly humble and humbled in that way of life...

And is always only a one time in act in every single and all cases, of all who are truly saved...? or not...?

God Bless!

 

[RDKirk]

Maybe I should just copy paste all of the sites claiming Hebrews was written by Paul vs the ones claiming not.

OOOPs, that won't work, because it's basically a 95 to 5 ratio of those believing Paul wrote it!!

First: That's not true.

Second: If it were true, the early church leaders--being a heck of a lot closer to it than we are--would have declared Paul the author.

 

[Timothy416]

Is repentance a "one time act" or is it, or should it be "a way of life" (here) (while we are here)...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Repentance unto salvation is a one time act. Repentance for imperfections carries on for the whole of our Christian lives

 

[servantofiam]

What I have found after 5 years on this forum is their are two kinds of posts.

The first is where the person makes a totally unrelated and hypothetical statement about the other person to deflect from the topic or questions they don’t want to answer

OR

The second, which is what I personally do, which is to continue to ask questions and let the person themselves write further and clarify their position.


God tells us in the 10 Commandments not to bear false witness. To me it is sad that Christians do not approach each other, with respect as the second scenario and stop using the first.

Another sad part of the first scenario is also that it makes the replying poster address the false allegation further derailing the conversation

I never try to ask people's age, especially women hahaha (and I have no idea if you are male/female it's none of my business), but I just turned the big 5-0 just 8 days ago. I am part of a generation where the neighbors could verbally give you advice, even instruct you if you were doing something out of line, go to your parents and your parents would trust their word and commence punishment, and in turn, you replied to your neighbors and elders with respect.

We involved our neighbors and knew the entire families for the whole block. We had get together's, celebrated holidays, had cook-outs, and almost every weekend did something together (especially in the spring/summer months).

Everyone was held accountable and seemed to hold their end of the bargain for everything and anything.

And some how that idealism and being a part of the whole just vanished. Young people no longer respected their elders and those who held authority over them. They just began mistreating anyone who tried to instruct them. The system I knew just some how came crashing down like it never existed.

And to make matters worse, the younger generation became lazy and felt entitled. It was like their parents and elders owed them something because they were alive. Taking blame and being accountable became like sharks chasing the single drop of blood in the water. We went from a kind of brotherly love to hating everyone equally in just the matter of over night. It turned into a complete dog eat dog existence.

So yes, I agree with your assessment. Even brothers and sisters in Christ can hardly get along...and yet, some how still believe we will exist in harmony together in heaven.

And to make matters even worse, this new psychological format where science and therapists convinced educators and parents that EVERYONE has a form of psychological disorder. Now granted, people with Asperger, autism, narcissist, multiple personalities, co-dependency, personality disorder, etc are very real and some can present extreme problems for even those of us I classify as sane.

When you consider a Narcissist (a true chameleon that is hardwired wrong but can observe how people act to jokes, getting gifts, introducing oneself to another and will never understand these qualities from an emotional point of view...but can expertly mimmick the reactions to where it convinces the sane) are said to be great members of today's churches. Therapists claim a Narcissist finds comfort in the church because it typically is full of enablers and givers who open themselves to be abused and taken for by the Narcissist. And if you then put those (Narcissist) on a forum like this, there will hardly be any sign of mutual respect, let alone true godliness.

I grew up where preachers claimed Satan attended every church service to disrupt the flow of the Holy Spirit. This is very much true today with every other pew being occupied by a Narcissist!!

 

[servantofiam]

First: That's not true.

Second: If it were true, the early church leaders--being a heck of a lot closer to it than we are--would have declared Paul the author.

The reason I disagree with your assessment is we have the 4 Gospels, but they were written (dated by the papyrus method) well after the ministry of the Apostles. So, even though the Disciples had notes, Paul wrote letters, there is NO REASONING for us to believe they had access to each others personal works.

So, these Books we read in the New Testament were personal letters to specific churches well outside the range that the Council and Disciples preached. Paul would have never seen the written Gospels. And the majority of the Disciples and council would have never read Paul's personal letters to the Gentile churches.

So, somewhere in this matter, it appears you are not using any logic.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The reason I disagree with your assessment is we have the 4 Gospels, but they were written (dated by the papyrus method) well after the ministry of the Apostles. So, even though the Disciples had notes, Paul wrote letters, there is NO REASONING for us to believe they had access to each others personal works.

So, these Books we read in the New Testament were personal letters to specific churches well outside the range that the Council and Disciples preached. Paul would have never seen the written Gospels. And the majority of the Disciples and council would have never read Paul's personal letters to the Gentile churches.

So, somewhere in this matter, it appears you are not using any logic.

Why don’t you share some of your resources proving the dating of papyrus and the order of writings.

 

[servantofiam]

Why don’t you share some of your resources proving the dating of papyrus and the order of writings.

It's common knowledge by now. The original method began in Ancient Egypt, and we can see how the Greeks adopted it, the Romans, and all ancient cultures. How they date the method is by the glue that was used, and later closer to the time of Christ, they sewed it together. But long story short, ancient cultures took long river reeds (plants) (Papyrus) found in the embankment of the rivers, they would slice them in thin pieces and lay them out to dry, then they would lay the pieces side by side just overlapping the edges where they applied the glue, then they would sit heavy objects on it to keep it flat and from rolling up, then they would double the paper by adding one dried piece on top of another dried piece and glue them together, and within a few days or around a weeks time they would have parchment paper that appeared similar to ancient scrolls.

From the ancient Egyptians, to the time of the Gospels being written, there were 4 distinct differences (just slightly different) how the paper was made and glued/later sewn together. And this is how they can date ancient manuscripts based upon the papyrus method.

Papyrus Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
Papyrus Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

1. Papyrus Paper:

Most importantly, from it was made the tough and inexpensive paper which was used from very ancient times in Egypt and which became the common writing-material of the ancient world. The white cellular pith of the long triangular papyrus stalk was stripped of its bark or rind and sliced into thin strips. Two layers of these strips were laid at right angles to each other, pasted together (Pliny says with the aid of Nile water), dried and smoothed. The sheets thus formed were pasted one to another to form a roll of any length desired. The process and the product are described by Pliny the EIder (NH,.xiii.11-13).


I will provide some dates that experts, understanding these methods, have dated biblical material.

***Remember the letter P before the number (P4) stands for Papyrus***

The Matthew fragments redated by Thiede are at Magdalen College (Oxford). They are called The Magdalen Papyrus (listed as Greek 17 and p64) date the fragments to around A.D. 48 to 69.

Because of the reference to the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE (Mark 13:2), most scholars believe that the Gospel of Mark based upon a fragment of papyrus from Qumran, was written some time during the war between Rome and the Jews (66-74). Most early dates fall around 65 CE.

Acts was written in 62/63 or before, then Luke was, of necessity, written before Acts (say 60–61 AD).

P46 is dated to around 65-100 A.D. and contains Paul’s epistles.

Based on a variety of evidences including papyrus, the Gospel of John is considered a later writing due to the differences of the other 3 Gospels, and the specific divinity content of Jesus as God. Collectively, it has been suggested to be a post-90 AD composition.


Anyway, that is some examples and ages dated by the papyrus method...

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well of course I pray!!

But as I stated in the other thread concerning baptisms and we ended up divulging into the "Tongues/Holy Spirit" debacle. I had the fortunes of being heir to my Grandfather and Father who taught Bible college, evangelized, preached/pastor notes, personal work, books, study guides, concordances w/personal notations which equaled to over 110 years of literal devotion to the Bible, it's meaning, interpretations, and gained knowledge of how the Holy Spirit gave them understanding.

I’m not talking about general prayer or prayer in general.

I was responding to that specific post I replied to where you seemed to be not draw a conclusion.

I asked if you specifically prayed about that question to God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It's common knowledge by now. The original method began in Ancient Egypt, and we can see how the Greeks adopted it, the Romans, and all ancient cultures. How they date the method is by the glue that was used, and later closer to the time of Christ, they sewed it together. But long story short, ancient cultures took long river reeds (plants) (Papyrus) found in the embankment of the rivers, they would slice them in thin pieces and lay them out to dry, then they would lay the pieces side by side just overlapping the edges where they applied the glue, then they would sit heavy objects on it to keep it flat and from rolling up, then they would double the paper by adding one dried piece on top of another dried piece and glue them together, and within a few days or around a weeks time they would have parchment paper that appeared similar to ancient scrolls.

From the ancient Egyptians, to the time of the Gospels being written, there were 4 distinct differences (just slightly different) how the paper was made and glued/later sewn together. And this is how they can date ancient manuscripts based upon the papyrus method.

Papyrus Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
Papyrus Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

1. Papyrus Paper:

Most importantly, from it was made the tough and inexpensive paper which was used from very ancient times in Egypt and which became the common writing-material of the ancient world. The white cellular pith of the long triangular papyrus stalk was stripped of its bark or rind and sliced into thin strips. Two layers of these strips were laid at right angles to each other, pasted together (Pliny says with the aid of Nile water), dried and smoothed. The sheets thus formed were pasted one to another to form a roll of any length desired. The process and the product are described by Pliny the EIder (NH,.xiii.11-13).


I will provide some dates that experts, understanding these methods, have dated biblical material.

***Remember the letter P before the number (P4) stands for Papyrus***

The Matthew fragments redated by Thiede are at Magdalen College (Oxford). They are called The Magdalen Papyrus (listed as Greek 17 and p64) date the fragments to around A.D. 48 to 69.

Because of the reference to the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE (Mark 13:2), most scholars believe that the Gospel of Mark based upon a fragment of papyrus from Qumran, was written some time during the war between Rome and the Jews (66-74). Most early dates fall around 65 CE.

Acts was written in 62/63 or before, then Luke was, of necessity, written before Acts (say 60–61 AD).

P46 is dated to around 65-100 A.D. and contains Paul’s epistles.

Based on a variety of evidences including papyrus, the Gospel of John is considered a later writing due to the differences of the other 3 Gospels, and the specific divinity content of Jesus as God. Collectively, it has been suggested to be a post-90 AD composition.


Anyway, that is some examples and ages dated by the papyrus method...

I haven’t done much research on this, but I did find this article by the university that has them.

Please note:

1. “Possibly” in the article title

2. Towards the bottom of the article it admits that most scholars disagree with Thiele and seem to follow and agree with the dating method of someone whose last name is Head.

3. It seems that there are scrolls dated earlier and that this ‘papyrus’ method refers to documents that are not considered scrolls.

The Magdalen Papyrus P64: possibly the earliest known fragments of the New Testament (or of a book!) | Magdalen College Oxford

It is interesting however and I hope to research it more later this week when I have Desktop computer resources, rather than mobile resources.

Interested in your thoughts

 

[RDKirk]

The reason I disagree with your assessment is we have the 4 Gospels, but they were written (dated by the papyrus method) well after the ministry of the Apostles. So, even though the Disciples had notes, Paul wrote letters, there is NO REASONING for us to believe they had access to each others personal works.

So, these Books we read in the New Testament were personal letters to specific churches well outside the range that the Council and Disciples preached. Paul would have never seen the written Gospels. And the majority of the Disciples and council would have never read Paul's personal letters to the Gentile churches.

So, somewhere in this matter, it appears you are not using any logic.

That doesn't have anything to do with what I've said.

 

[ToBeLoved]

First: That's not true.

Second: If it were true, the early church leaders--being a heck of a lot closer to it than we are--would have declared Paul the author.

Or Paul, who puts a greeting in the first 5 verses of every letter he writes, he would have stated that as is Paul’s practice