Is rejecting Christ a sin?

[Edward65]

It does apply to everyone. We are justified by faith. If you believe, you are saved. If you don't believe, you aren't.

Nothing in that passage talks of atonement. Your view is being propped up be eisegesis.

You said with reference to “Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son” that this referred to justification, but since only the elect are justified by faith it follows if you’re correct that the non-elect are damned because they don’t believe that the elect are justified, which doesn’t make any sense. For the passage to make any sense the testimony concerning Christ must apply to everyone so that by not believing it one damns oneself.

 

[Hammster]

You said with reference to “Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son” that this referred to justification, but since only the elect are justified by faith it follows if you’re correct that the non-elect are damned because they don’t believe that the elect are justified, which doesn’t make any sense. For the passage to make any sense the testimony concerning Christ must apply to everyone so that by not believing it one damns oneself.

Okay, but then we are back to the beginning. Is the unbelief a sin? Yes. Did Christ take the full penalty for that sin? Universal atonement would have to say yes. If that's the case, then either hell cannot be punishment for sin, or universalism is true.

 

[Edward65]

Okay, but then we are back to the beginning. Is the unbelief a sin? Yes. Did Christ take the full penalty for that sin? Universal atonement would have to say yes. If that's the case, then either hell cannot be punishment for sin, or universalism is true.

In my previous post I said:

You said with reference to “Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son” that this referred to justification, but since only the elect are justified by faith it follows if you’re correct that the non-elect are damned because they don’t believe that the elect are justified, which doesn’t make any sense. For the passage to make any sense the testimony concerning Christ must apply to everyone so that by not believing it one damns oneself.

You have replied to this by saying:

Okay, but then we are back to the beginning. Is the unbelief a sin? Yes. Did Christ take the full penalty for that sin? Universal atonement would have to say yes. If that's the case, then either hell cannot be punishment for sin, or universalism is true.

which seems to show that you accept that the testimony which the unbeliever rejects is that Christ has atoned for his sins. So I'm now replying by saying: persistent unbelief isn’t atoned for otherwise Christ wouldn’t have said that those who don’t believe are damned “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him”. John 3:36 KJV

The Bible teaches that Christ has atoned for everyone's sins except for the sin of permanent unbelief because belief is necessary in order to obtain forgiveness. Forgiveness has been won for all but it has first to be distributed by the Holy Spirit and believed in before a person is regarded by God as righteous and justified.

 

[Hammster]

In my previous post I said:

You said with reference to “Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son” that this referred to justification, but since only the elect are justified by faith it follows if you’re correct that the non-elect are damned because they don’t believe that the elect are justified, which doesn’t make any sense. For the passage to make any sense the testimony concerning Christ must apply to everyone so that by not believing it one damns oneself.

You have replied to this by saying:

Okay, but then we are back to the beginning. Is the unbelief a sin? Yes. Did Christ take the full penalty for that sin? Universal atonement would have to say yes. If that's the case, then either hell cannot be punishment for sin, or universalism is true.

which seems to show that you accept that the testimony which the unbeliever rejects is that Christ has atoned for his sins. So I'm now replying by saying: persistent unbelief isn’t atoned for otherwise Christ wouldn’t have said that those who don’t believe are damned “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him”. John 3:36 KJV

The Bible teaches that Christ has atoned for everyone's sins except for the sin of permanent unbelief because belief is necessary in order to obtain forgiveness. Forgiveness has been won for all but it has first to be distributed by the Holy Spirit and believed in before a person is regarded by God as righteous and justified.

How can you say that Christ has atoned for the sins of an unbeliever if He hasn't atoned for all of his sins?

 

[Edward65]

How can you say that Christ has atoned for the sins of an unbeliever if He hasn't atoned for all of his sins?

If a person rejects being pardoned for his sins he's saying he doesn't want to be forgiven, and therefore God's wrath still remains on him since he has rejected God.

 

[Skala]

If a person rejects being pardoned for his sins he's saying he doesn't want to be forgiven, and therefore God's wrath still remains on him since he has rejected God.

But rejecting God is a sin that Christ paid for.

 

[Hammster]

If a person rejects being pardoned for his sins he's saying he doesn't want to be forgiven, and therefore God's wrath still remains on him since he has rejected God.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that all sin is atoned for except the sin of persistent unbelief. But you also say that people are condemned for not believing that Jesus atoned for all of their sins.

Is that correct?

 

[elman]

But rejecting God is a sin that Christ paid for.

No. The unrepentant perish.

 

[Hammster]

No. The unrepentant perish.

So you affirm limited atonement.

 

[Skala]

So you affirm limited atonement.

I think elman affirms that there's no such thing as atonement. See the other thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7759084-7/#post63665959

 

[elman]

So you affirm limited atonement.

Always have. No change in my position.

 

[mathetes123]

What kind of response is required for atonement to be effective?


Just so you know, this is in violation of the flaming rule. Please refrain from these types of comments in the future.

The required response is that one recognize they are a sinner, repent of those sins, recognize and believe that Jesus died on the cross for their salvation and was raised on the third day for their justification, and put their faith and trust in Jesus.

You are avoiding the second question. There are certain minimum doctrines one must acknowledge to sign up on the forum as a Christian.

 

[Hammster]

The required response is that one recognize they are a sinner, repent of those sins, recognize and believe that Jesus died on the cross for their salvation and was raised on the third day for their justification, and put their faith and trust in Jesus.

that's great. But where do you find that the atonement is only effective if you do these things?

You are avoiding the second question. There are certain minimum doctrines one must acknowledge to sign up on the forum as a Christian.

I'm pretty sure that as a site moderator, I qualify.

 

[shturt678]

Romans 1:18-21
God's Wrath on Unrighteousness
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Find me one passage that can be construed with IIThess.2:9, 10 where God casts one into hell even without bumping into the Truth? Don't bother, I tried. There are none! I'm however toothless. btw good job on Rom.1:18 as to be construed with IIThess.2:3-12 and a bunch of passages in Rev.8:7-9:21.

 

[mathetes123]

that's great. But where do you find that the atonement is only effective if you do these things?


I'm pretty sure that as a site moderator, I qualify.

In the Bible.

In your opinion, how is atonement made effective.

Does being moderator allow you to violate the rules.

 

[Hammster]

In the Bible.

Where?

In your opinion, how is atonement made effective.

The Atonement is made effective by the Father accepting the sacrifice presented by the High Priest. See Leviticus 16 and Hebrews 9 and 10.

Does being moderator allow you to violate the rules.

No. But it does allow me to enforce this rule:

● Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian.

 

[mathetes123]

Where?
The Atonement is made effective by the Father accepting the sacrifice presented by the High Priest. See Leviticus 16 and Hebrews 9 and 10.

No. But it does allow me to enforce this rule:

● Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian.

Romans 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

I am sure there is something in there also about teaching against Christian doctrine.

 

[mathetes123]

Where?
The Atonement is made effective by the Father accepting the sacrifice presented by the High Priest. See Leviticus 16 and Hebrews 9 and 10.

No. But it does allow me to enforce this rule:

● Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian.

Jesus is the sacrifice foreshadowed by the Jewish sacrificial system.

 

[mathetes123]

Okay, but then we are back to the beginning. Is the unbelief a sin? Yes. Did Christ take the full penalty for that sin? Universal atonement would have to say yes. If that's the case, then either hell cannot be punishment for sin, or universalism is true.

Jesus died for all sin, but that sin must be repented of. To repent from unbelief would be to believe.

 

[Hammster]

Romans 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

I am sure there is something in there also about teaching against Christian doctrine.

In Romans 5:11, taking into consideration the context, who is the "we" Paul is talking about?