Is Psychology Biblical?

[seeking.IAM]

I won't go there, although I do disagree somewhat with what is said. What I want to focus on is that the most modern version of psychology Self esteem and self love. Every psychology book out there, will tell you to love yourself. This is how it tackles depression. But the Bible is starkly against self love. No where in the Bible are we told to love ourselves. We are to love others, yes. Not ourselves. God knows that loving ourselves is not a critical issue. We have a self love by instinct. We sleep, eat, we put bandaids on our cuts, we cradle wounded arms, we coddle our head when we have a head ache. We love ourselves plenty, that is not even an issue. Depression is not fixed on having self esteem, the Bible says that if we love others and find our identity in serving others, we will have a healthy life and be blessed.

The Bible is not against self-love. instead it assumes self love as a given. The second greatest commandment is "Love your neighbor as yourself."

You oversimplify clinical treatment of depression to think elevating self-esteem is how we go about treatment of depression. Current evidence-based practices for treatment of depression are much more than that. The risk of denigrating modern clinical practice based upon an uninformed bias that it is somehow inherently evil is the potential for discouraging persons facing mental health challenges from seeking treatment. That's the tragedy of this whole thread and others like it.

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[createdtoworship]

Yes for sure Freud was a major influence, but there have been others. I think it differs in America, from Britain and Europe. In America, William James was a major influence - he is sometimes refered to a the father of American Psychology. Freud has never been universally accepted, nor without critics amongst psychologists.

The Origins of Psychology: History Through the Years

no one is saying psychology is entirely freudian. But I think his view still exist, and I would say much of his views still do. Just like darwins views are still in evolutionary principles even though his tree of life has been recently disproven. But I think whenever you have a founder of a concept, the principle still remains primarily in that line of thinking. If psychology was founded on humanism, it's still currently humanistic. And as I point out in this post, still unbiblical... Is Psychology Biblical?

 

[createdtoworship]

The Bible is not against self-love. instead it assumes self love as a given. The second greatest commandment is "Love your neighbor as yourself."

You oversimplify clinical treatment of depression to think elevating self-esteem is how we go about treatment of depression. Current evidence-based practices for treatment of depression are much more than that. The risk of denigrating modern clinical practice based upon an uninformed bias that it is somehow inherently evil is the potential for discouraging persons facing mental health challenges from seeking treatment. That's the tragedy of this whole thread and others like it.

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I think asking your followers to mortify their flesh, to crucify their old nature, to die to self, to love your neighbor even if you get nothing in return, to love your enemy. I mean I could go on indefinately about the lack of self love in the Bible. Self love is basically selfishness.

 

[Josheb]

May I quote you in full over to the Controversial Christian Theology forum and begin a discussion on this because where I am going with this will almost certainly be somewhat controversial.

I've been studying near death experience accounts since 1990 and my impression is that when there is a Life Review...... it is probably Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in his glorious immortal resurrected form who people are meeting.

I am of the opinion at this time that the time between the Rapture and the Second Coming to fulfill Zechariah 14 could be as little as the Marriage Supper of the Lamb or perhaps as long as three and a half years....

Yes, but I encourage you to go back and track down what I have posted to you about the efficacy of these near death experiences.

I mean no disrespect but you seem fixated, and fixated to the point of idolatry. I don't know for sure because I don't know you outside of the forum but in the forum there is more talk about the NDEs than about Jesus or scripture. Furthermore, the implication that scripture must be true because of the reports from the particular NDEs or a certain interpretation of scripture must therefore be true is a dubious one.

As far as Zech 14 goes I would encourage you to go through the passage and notice how much of the text is correlated to the coming of the Messiah - the first coming of the Messiah.

And fyi, the Mozilla Firefox browser sends up a warning and will not proceed to your blog because of security issues. MS Edge will show the site, though. You might want to check that out.


If the new op is on Dispensationalism and you msg me that it's up I'll weigh in on the issues I cited.

 

[Josheb]

Sorry sir I had tried to be polite.

The evidence says otherwise.

None of the op-relevant substance of the dissent (mine or others) was engaged.
None of the op-relevant questions asked were answered.
Personally negative attributions were assigned.
The log was ignored over the speck.
Requests for change were ignored.

That is not polite or respectful posting.


This is real simple: The op is incorrect. A number of posters have explained how and why. The posts of the dissent have been commended with Likes and Agrees and Winners indicating a positive consensus. And you were kindly and patiently asked to present a better case to support the op, one that would withstand critical examination, one that wasn't antiquated, one that demonstrated Christian therapists culpable of any of the accusations the Bobgans assert and we've received very little and none of it is convincing.

My pointing that out is not inherently hurtful. You may feel hurt by the information presented but that is not due to any inherent hurtfulness of the information nor any intent of others to cause injury. It should be understand there are two kinds of pain: 1) the pain of pathology and 2) the pain of growth. Iron sharpening iron is necessitated upon friction so be encouraged to grow and read something other than the Bobgans and Hoekstra and other incomplete arguments against Christianity and psychology.

The op is incorrect. The Bobgans are not serving the body of Christ well when they divide it unjustly and discernment should be used examining their arguments. Many Christians in the field of counseling - pastoral and clinical - have engaged and addressed the issue of Christianity and psychology. The Bobgans are not the only ones who have done so but they are among the few who do so with an open intent to divide the body and with biases, many of which were wrong from the beginning and others that grow increasingly obsolete because the profession grows more in line with scripture because all truth is God's truth and the influence of Christians in the field.

Nothing I have read in this op proves otherwise.

 

[dms1972]

I have to say reading this thread, there are at least one or two posters replying that are clearly triggered by the discussion, and need to calm down.

In defense of the OP I don't see him being impolite, he has read a book (a book that can divide people) and taken on board some of the anti-psychology arguments of the authors, and he is looking to discuss those. I think he could be more open to other views. However while the authors of the book he has read may be extreme in their opposition of psychology, if that is so, beginning by calling them fools is unlikely change the OP's view. They may have something to say to some christians who are too open to secular ideas and not critical, or discerning enough of secular theorists.

Personally I think it would be a big mistake for a christian to seek help from an Freudian Analyst, because Freud held that religious belief was an illusion, and neurosis. But that said it seems the case that some people do have very distorted views of God, and need help.


But its also has to be acknowledged I believe that when Freud came along the church had dropped the ball, in regard to understanding the soul in its depth.

 

[createdtoworship]

I have to say reading this thread, there are at least one or two posters replying that are clearly triggered by the discussion, and need to calm down.

In defense of the OP I don't see him being impolite, he has read a book (a book that can divide people) and taken on board some of the anti-psychology arguments of the authors, and he is looking to discuss those. I think he could be more open to other views. However while the authors of the book he has read may be extreme in their opposition of psychology, if that is so, beginning by calling them fools is unlikely change the OP's view. They may have something to say to some christians who are too open to secular ideas and not critical, or discerning enough of secular theorists.

Personally I think it would be a big mistake for a christian to seek help from an Freudian Analyst, because Freud held that religious belief was an illusion, and neurosis. But that said it seems the case that some people do have very distorted views of God, and need help.


But its also has to be acknowledged I believe that when Freud came along the church had dropped the ball, in regard to understanding the soul in its depth.

Thank you sir. I typically have to block people when they get triggered. Because of my own weakness to retaliate. So I just cut it off. And by the way I have not read the books in the OP, I attended a class at bible college with Bob hoekstra. I put his podcast a few posts ago as well as put his book out there for people to see our role's in counseling God's way.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a clean up of off topic posts. The topic is in the OP, it is not Dispensationalism or the Rapture, etc. Stay on topic.​

 

[createdtoworship]

I finally purchased the biblical counseling God's way, by Bob Hoeskstra...

here is a section of it:

Turning to Worldly Counsel

Turning to worldly counsel is the second of the two major threats to counseling God’s way in the church. This second threat is an inevitable consequence of yielding to the first threat, which is forsaking our Wonderful Counselor. Those who consider that the Lord Jesus Christ and His word are not sufficient for people’s counseling needs will end up searching for supplementary answers in the psychological systems of the world. This is like what Israel did when they forsook the Lord.

Broken Cisterns

When Israel forsook the Lord as her fountain of living waters, she looked for ways to collect some kind of “substitute water” by which to live.

“For My people have . . . hewn themselves cisterns, broken cisterns that can hold no water” (Jeremiah 2:13b).

In forsaking the Lord, Israel became vulnerable to the temptations of the worldly, idolatrous religious systems all around them. As the people of the true and living God began to turn to these false gods, they were virtually digging cisterns that would prove to be flawed. These religious cisterns could not actually contain the water that was needed for living life God’s way.

This is what the church of the Lord Jesus Christ is doing today by seeking out the human-istic input of the world’s psychological theories. We are hewing for ourselves man-made systems of sustenance, refreshment, and supply. Can we not see that if God is not the source, the systems of thought are going to be flawed and defective? They will be full of holes. The systems will not hold water. They will not provide counseling God’s way.

Strange Doctrines

Those in the church world who pass on these flawed psychological systems of man to the people of God are actually involved in teaching strange doctrines. God has given us strong warnings against such a practice.

“As I urged you upon my departure from Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus, in order that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith” (1 Timothy 1:3-4, NASB).

From the early days of the church, various people needed to be told not to teach “strange doctrines.” Such unacceptable doctrines would include all teaching that is foreign to the word of God. This issue was urgent to the Apostle Paul. He beseeched Timothy to stay in Ephesus to confront this danger. We must give this matter the same priority in our lives, ministries, and churches.

Strange doctrines are clearly evident today in the counseling perspectives of many churches. The leaders, teachers, and counselors of these churches earnestly need to be instructed not to teach their unbiblical counseling appr-oaches. If any tenet of counseling cannot be found in the word of God, it is a strange doctrine that is to be exposed and rejected.

Myths and Speculations

These words from 1 Timothy indicate that myth and speculation are related to the teaching of strange doctrines. Superstitions, fables, fantasies, opinions, conjectures, and wild presuppositions abound in the darkened minds of unredeemed humanity. Thus, it is not surprising that myth and speculation characterize the psychological counseling systems of man. Although the Lord has warned us not to pay attention to such worldly surmising, many Christians eagerly give and receive counsel based upon such unfounded human thinking.

The Myth of Psychoanalysis

Psychoanalysis is one myth that many in the church world view as a valid, evennecessary, counseling technique. This procedure is used in many varying approaches by trained professionals and self-taught practitioners alike. Basically, in this technique, the counselor encourages the counselee to undertake an introspective evaluation of thoughts, feelings, motivations, and attitudes. Then, as the inner responses to issues, individuals, and events are disclosed, the counselor seeks explanations and understandings by searching that person’s history of relationships and experiences.

 

[createdtoworship]

(sorry just trying to awaken a dead thread)