Is Psychology Biblical?

[createdtoworship]

I firmly believe in psychiatry. I in fact had a nervous breakdown during the financial crisis at the loss of a job and needed medicine and prayer. Fully healed now. But God used psychiatry. That to me is more scientific than psychology. Science I mean (testubes and mathematics), not theory. Anyway I have a huge list of very informative christian books against the case of christian psychology. Now don't get me wrong, people should be counseled if depressed etc. And maybe take medicine. But don't use things like self esteem etc. Anyway, I want to open up this topic I think it's very important. here is some material:

I highly recommend these mp3 audio messages
LIVING IN CHRIST MINISTRIES | The Psychologizing of the Faith


also for those psychologists who wish to follow in the steps of this christian psychologist who realized the humanistic tendencies of main stream psychology and how it was anti christian, and decided to counsel God's way....he has a host of video lessons:

here is a podcast:
Is Psychological Counseling Biblical? with Martin and Deidre Bobgan (Part 1)

here are numerous free ebooks....
Free eBooks | PsychoHeresy Awareness Ministries

Bob Hoekstra teaches a class on this, (the above video's) here are the textbooks in the class:

https://www.amazon.com/How-Counsel-...seling+gods+way&qid=1579318902&s=books&sr=1-1

https://www.amazon.com/How-Big-Your...bulkley&qid=1579318718&sr=8-1#customerReviews

here is a separate book by the author of the one above...
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Christians-Cant-Trust-Psychology/dp/1565070267

 

[HTacianas]

I firmly believe in psychiatry. I in fact had a nervous breakdown during the financial crisis at the loss of a job and needed medicine and prayer. Fully healed now. But God used psychiatry. That to me is more scientific than psychology. Science I mean (testubes and mathmatics), not theory. Anyway I have a huge list of very informative christian books agains the case of christian psychology. Now don't get me wrong, people should be counseled if depressed etc. And maybe take medicine. But don't use things like self esteem etc. Anyway, I want to open up this topic I think it's very important. here is some reading material, I recommend downloading the books asap, this author has published and is selling some of these books, but they are still on his server for now anyways.


here is a podcast:
Is Psychological Counseling Biblical? with Martin and Deidre Bobgan (Part 1)

here are numerous free ebooks....
psychologizing of christian faith ebook downloads

Mat 9:12 - When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.

Jesus himself said those who are sick need a physician.

 

[Josheb]

I firmly believe in psychiatry. I in fact had a nervous breakdown during the financial crisis at the loss of a job and needed medicine and prayer. Fully healed now. But God used psychiatry. That to me is more scientific than psychology. Science I mean (testubes and mathmatics), not theory. Anyway I have a huge list of very informative christian books agains the case of christian psychology. Now don't get me wrong, people should be counseled if depressed etc. And maybe take medicine. But don't use things like self esteem etc. Anyway, I want to open up this topic I think it's very important. here is some reading material, I recommend downloading the books asap, this author has published and is selling some of these books, but they are still on his server for now anyways.


here is a podcast:
Is Psychological Counseling Biblical? with Martin and Deidre Bobgan (Part 1)

here are numerous free ebooks....
psychologizing of christian faith ebook downloads

The Bobgans are fools and they are arguing a straw man. Psychology is simply and solely the "word on" or "study of" the soul. Logos = word on or study of. Psyc = soul.

Wherever psychology has asserted truth it works because all truth is God's truth. Wherever psychology has asserted falsely it does not bear scrutiny and empirical testing or endure. It's that simple. Psychology is less than 150 years old as a science and it studies the single most dynamic, resilient, and deceptive subject known to all creation. When physics was 150 years old most "scientists" thought the earth was the center of the universe and when medicine was 150 years old they though your illness was due to bad frogs in your system or the imbalance of the four humors. The first physicians were witch doctors and shamans. Any comparison with other sciences must be equivalent comparisons.

When Christian theology was 150 years old they were still arguing over whether Jesus was a spirit, an ordinary man, or both fully God and fully man.

I change lives every single day for the better and for Christ. Scripture and psychology are no more inherently disparate than any other empirical study humans embark upon.


Try these sources instead:

"The Sorcerer's Apprentice" by Mary Stewart van Leeuwen
"Christianity and Psychology: Five Views" edited by Eric Johnson
"Psychology, Theology, and Spirituality in Christian Counseling" by Mark McMinn
"Modern Psychotherapies" by Stanton Jones and Richard Butman

The facts of history are that if the church had been successful wayward folks like Freud would have been unnecessary. Some Christian psychologists are leaders in the profession, making effective and enduring contributions ot the field because of their study of scripture and prayerful reliance on God.


As far as "self-esteem" goes, the Bible is quire clear and plain: the self is a creation of God. There are currently seven billion people on the planet and no two are alike. God made it that way. He knit us together in our mother's womb and appointed the time and place when and where each of us would live and He numbered our days. Despite the admonitions against self-love and selfishness the second greatest command is to love our neighbors as..... ourself. Hard to do if you don't have a self. One of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. Again: Hard to do if the self doesn't exist. Each of us have had our names written in the Lamb's book of life for all eternity. You will not lose your self even on the other side of the grave. Properly understood, self-esteem is a scriptural and effective means of addressing sin in the hands of professionals who study the soul.

Here is an excerpt from that interview:

"However, the point I’m trying to make here is that what can a psychiatrist, a psychologist, even a Christian psychologist, how can they deal with sin? They can’t! And therefore, if you believe that sin affects your life and you’re being referred out to somebody that can’t even talk about sin based on their licensing, that’s why we are - and hopefully, the Lord willing, in our next session we’re going to deal with how we go about ministering to one another."​

There's not a word of it that is factually true for Christian psychologists working with Christian clients in Christian practices (or those clients who are non-Christian and consent to the Christian paradigm). There are only a few possible explanations for this error: 1) He's incompetent, woefully misinformed and presenting false information in ignorance, 2) he's deliberately deceiving his audience, 3) he's cognitively impaired. And since we know he's an otherwise intelligent man and assume his intent is not to deceive, that leaves only the first.


The Bobgans will be held accountable for the unnecessary and unjust division in the body he has caused. Do you think they are aware of what the Bible calls those who unnecessarily and unjustly divide the body? Do you know what scripture calls such people? Does scripture paint that as a fruit of the Spirit, or a work of flesh?

Look it up.


Then adjust your own thinking, doctrine, and practice accordingly.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I firmly believe in psychiatry. I in fact had a nervous breakdown during the financial crisis at the loss of a job and needed medicine and prayer. Fully healed now. But God used psychiatry. That to me is more scientific than psychology. Science I mean (testubes and mathmatics), not theory. Anyway I have a huge list of very informative christian books agains the case of christian psychology. Now don't get me wrong, people should be counseled if depressed etc. And maybe take medicine. But don't use things like self esteem etc. Anyway, I want to open up this topic I think it's very important. here is some reading material, I recommend downloading the books asap, this author has published and is selling some of these books, but they are still on his server for now anyways.


here is a podcast:
Is Psychological Counseling Biblical? with Martin and Deidre Bobgan (Part 1)

here are numerous free ebooks....
psychologizing of christian faith ebook downloads

Otherwise stated, do we go for secular 'ego' analysis and cultivation? or in humility and gratitude should we keep 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12.2)?

 

[createdtoworship]

The Bobgans are fools and they are arguing a straw man. Psychology is simply and solely the "word on" or "study of" the soul. Logos = word on or study of. Psyc = soul.

Wherever psychology has asserted truth it works because all truth is God's truth. Wherever psychology has asserted falsely it does not bear scrutiny and empirical testing or endure. It's that simple. Psychology is less than 150 years old as a science and it studies the single most dynamic, resilient, and deceptive subject known to all creation. When physics was 150 years old most "scientists" thought the earth was the center of the universe and when medicine was 150 years old they though your illness was due to bad frogs in your system or the imbalance of the four humors. The first physicians were witch doctors and shamans. Any comparison with other sciences must be equivalent comparisons.

When Christian theology was 150 years old they were still arguing over whether Jesus was a spirit, an ordinary man, or both fully God and fully man.

I change lives every single day for the better and for Christ. Scripture and psychology are no more inherently disparate than any other empirical study humans embark upon.


Try these sources instead:

"The Sorcerer's Apprentice" by Mary Stewart van Leeuwen
"Christianity and Psychology: Five Views" edited by Eric Johnson
"Psychology, Theology, and Spirituality in Christian Counseling" by Mark McMinn
"Modern Psychotherapies" by Stanton Jones and Richard Butman

The facts of history are that if the church had been successful wayward folks like Freud would have been unnecessary. Some Christian psychologists are leaders in the profession, making effective and enduring contributions ot the field because of their study of scripture and prayerful reliance on God.


As far as "self-esteem" goes, the Bible is quire clear and plain: the self is a creation of God. There are currently seven billion people on the planet and no two are alike. God made it that way. He knit us together in our mother's womb and appointed the time and place when and where each of us would live and He numbered our days. Despite the admonitions against self-love and selfishness the second greatest command is to love our neighbors as..... ourself. Hard to do if you don't have a self. One of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. Again: Hard to do if the self doesn't exist. Each of us have had our names written in the Lamb's book of life for all eternity. You will not lose your self even on the other side of the grave. Properly understood, self-esteem is a scriptural and effective means of addressing sin in the hands of professionals who study the soul.

Here is an excerpt from that interview:

"However, the point I’m trying to make here is that what can a psychiatrist, a psychologist, even a Christian psychologist, how can they deal with sin? They can’t! And therefore, if you believe that sin affects your life and you’re being referred out to somebody that can’t even talk about sin based on their licensing, that’s why we are - and hopefully, the Lord willing, in our next session we’re going to deal with how we go about ministering to one another."​

There's not a word of it that is factually true for Christian psychologists working with Christian clients in Christian practices (or those clients who are non-Christian and consent to the Christian paradigm). There are only a few possible explanations for this error: 1) He's incompetent, woefully misinformed and presenting false information in ignorance, 2) he's deliberately deceiving his audience, 3) he's cognitively impaired. And since we know he's an otherwise intelligent man and assume his intent is not to deceive, that leaves only the first.


The Bobgans will be held accountable for the unnecessary and unjust division in the body he has caused. Do you think they are aware of what the Bible calls those who unnecessarily and unjustly divide the body? Do you know what scripture calls such people? Does scripture paint that as a fruit of the Spirit, or a work of flesh?

Look it up.


Then adjust your own thinking, doctrine, and practice accordingly.

so again a bible study on self esteem is needed. I believe we should realize our worth in Christ. But outside of Christ I simply don't see that. So you would have to do a bible study on that topic and debate is "self esteem a christian principle universally speaking." If it is not universally speaking a christian concept, then what parts of it are good and what parts are not. I realize this makes you uncomfortable, as your post seems very angry. I realize the power of psychology and how many people want to help others, but I simply think christian counseling and psychology are not really the same. Thank you by the way for the book reference, I will look into those works more. I posted these works simply to create a dialogue. I don't see this stuff being said. I was afraid, myself to look into this matter before, but I feel there are parts that the authors in the OP are saying that is correct, and parts that are wrong. To poison the well, sort to say....to mock them as "incompetent, or woefully misinformed." Is not the best thing to do on a christian forum. There is a full length book in the links above, I recommend downloading the large file, and reading it. Just to see. A small interview is just a sample of what is said, he has numerous books and numerous points. Some may be valid. So again, this is just to self check. We should not assume that because depression is at an all time high, that we need to tell people how good they are. That may fix their mental state, but in turn create a self righteous works attitude that seals them to hell. But at the same time if someone is genuinely good at something, they should realize they are good. And use it as a point of hope in their life. That they can celebrate the rewards of their labor as Ecclesiastes says. That is much different than saying, "you are a good person." It is just saying, you have talent and you are doing some good things, which if you keep doing them, will make you a better person.


Here are some more articles about it:
Is Psychotherapy Anti-Christian?

Can Psychology Be Christian? A Dave and Tom Classic

Psychology vs. the Bible - Part Two

(previous links in OP
Index of /e-books

Is Psychological Counseling Biblical? with Martin and Deidre Bobgan (Part 1)

 

[bèlla]

I’m a big fan of positive psychology and read my share of self-help titles each year. There is a fine line between self-awareness and accepting you neither know or understand the nuances of your person.

I’ve benefited immensely from the things I’ve consumed. While there are Christian titles of a similar strain, they’re usually weighed down with heavy subjects or spend too much time recounting the past and bad experiences.

It often feels like a therapy session and I’ve sought secular titles in their place. I’m not a fan of woeful commiseration. It rubs against my disposition in the wrong way.

I have a natural propensity for happiness and lightheartedness. Psychology has enabled me to find kindred spirits and implement gratitude practices and affirmations in my life.

The biggest draw for me is encouragement. Oftentimes you hear what’s wrong, bad, or questionable in Christian settings. A positive message devoid of innuendo is refreshing.

~Bella

 

[createdtoworship]

I’m a big fan of positive psychology and read my share of self-help titles each year. There is a fine line between self-awareness and accepting you neither know or understand the nuances of your person.

I’ve benefited immensely from the things I’ve consumed. While there are Christian titles of a similar strain, they’re usually weighed down with heavy subjects or spend too much time recounting the past and bad experiences.

It often feels like a therapy session and I’ve sought secular titles in their place. I’m not a fan of woeful commiseration. It rubs against my disposition in the wrong way.

I have a natural propensity for happiness and lightheartedness. Psychology has enabled me to find kindred spirits and implement gratitude practices and affirmations in my life.

The biggest draw for me is encouragement. Oftentimes you hear what’s wrong, bad, or questionable in Christian settings. A positive message devoid of innuendo is refreshing.

~Bella

I know this sounds cliche, but the Holy Spirit can encourage us just the same. I mean when I joined twitter a few years ago I was all about politics, but then I blocked all those political feeds and just read christian material. So, So, So many on fire christians in the world. I know the tendency to buy positive self help books, and I have...believe me. But I realized soon afterward that I didn't need them. God is all I need. Just take a few minutes are read some of my favorite twitter feeds to see how encouraging they are:

Yvonne (@lovey_doveyy) | Twitter
Ian Rinken (@Ian_Rinken) | Twitter
Michala (@Michalawhite_) | Twitter
Eugena Nicols (@Eugena_Nicols) | Twitter

Just those four, I have bookmarked and I read all the time, their are dozens others that pop up all the time. I would be no where without fellowship with other christians. Too often we can come to this forum and we think this is all christianity is about, debate, arguing, and skepticism. There is soooo much more.

I don't disagree with the need for encouragement, BTW, I simply think psychology uses self esteem to encourage instead of the Biblical sources.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Psychology is a healing art. Jesus healed.

 

[ColoRaydo]

Psychology is an inexact science, which doesn’t mean it’s usually wrong. Some psychologists, therapists and counselors are right on and some are radically misguided. Same as it is with pastors!

I went to therapy years ago for childhood trauma (which I was aware of) but I did not see how it affected other behaviors in my life. The therapist got to the bottom of it, showed me the connection, and completely changed my life. I believe God led me to that therapist, whether she was a Christian or not.

Be careful though! I know a woman who was “encouraged” to have an affair by her therapist.

If you’re a somewhat discerning Christian, you’ll know if your “therapy” is outside the lines of Christian advice.

 

[createdtoworship]

Psychology is a healing art. Jesus healed.

Psychology is an inexact science, which doesn’t mean it’s usually wrong. Some psychologists, therapists and counselors are right on and some are radically misguided. Same as it is with pastors!

I went to therapy years ago for childhood trauma (which I was aware of) but I did not see how it affected other behaviors in my life. The therapist got to the bottom of it, showed me the connection, and completely changed my life. I believe God led me to that therapist, whether she was a Christian or not.

Be careful though! I know a woman who was “encouraged” to have an affair by her therapist.

If you’re a somewhat discerning Christian, you’ll know if your “therapy” is outside the lines of Christian advice.

Good posts, but I am stretched thin to find a reason to go to a psychologist over a christian counselor. If we allow our medical insurance to pay for psychology over LMFT Christian counselors, then that is what they will do. Soon there will be no reason for other couselors, psychology will take their place. And as someone said psychology is not really a science, it's called a soft science because it's so theoretical. Psychiatry at least has some aspect of science to it remotely speaking.

 

[Bobber]

so again a bible study on self esteem is needed. I believe we should realize our worth in Christ. But outside of Christ I simply don't see that.

Even outside of Christ one needs to have a sober respect for themselves and others that nobody is just a nothing in this world. Nothing worse than trying to convince somebody they have talents and gifts that can be developed and used and they just hang on to a belief that no they're a nothing. So there's nothing wrong with embracing self esteem....all depends on what you mean.

We should not assume that because depression is at an all time high, that we need to tell people how good they are.

They may need to realize though that they have potential to achieve various things so nothing wrong with supporting their mental state for believing that's true.

That may fix their mental state, but in turn create a self righteous works attitude that seals them to hell.

But you're talking building a person's self-esteem to the extreme. I don't think you've really shown evidence that it's wrong to build a person's self-esteem in a balanced way.

 

[Josheb]

so again a bible study on self esteem is needed. I believe we should realize our worth in Christ. But outside of Christ I simply don't see that.

Your personal anecdotal "seeing" is not a rational argument for or against anything. Because the aapeal to personal anecdotal experience is logically fallacious it is also unscriptural.

And discerning Christians should pick up on that kind of argument because the Holy Spirit of God Almighty does not argue fallaciously.

So you would have to do a bible study on that topic and debate is "self esteem a christian principle universally speaking."

Which is what I did without citing the verses. I referenced at least a half dozen scriptures in that post (Lev. 19:18; Ps. 139:13; Mt. 22:34-40; Mk. 12:30-31; Acts 17:26; Gal. 5:19-23 and others). The fundamental premise of the Bobgans entire argument is that God's word is authoritative and should be applied to all in counseling. Christian psychologists agree. The problem is...


Whose interpretation of the Bible are we to consider appropriate to counseling?


Because David Powlison's view and the Bobgan's view and Neil Anderson's view and Walter Wink's view and Gregory Boyd's view and Jay Adam's view and...... are all going to be different. God's word isn't and won't be applied authoritatively; it will be applied subjectively and that is the very condition about which this op expresses concern.

The reality is psychologists use the exact same diagnostic manual psychiatrists use when it comes to diagnosing mental health concerns. It is completely fallacious to say otherwise and if the Bobgans neglect to inform their Christian readers then that is a lie of omission.

If it is not universally speaking a christian concept, then what parts of it are good and what parts are not. I realize this makes you uncomfortable...

No you don't. You have no idea what "this" makes me and I will think you to keep your posts about the posts and not the posters.

What's important is God's concepts, not "Christian" concepts.

Watch what is happening: every single sentence you've posted so far is flawed in some way. You've got to be just as critical of the Bobgans as you are of psychology or what I am posting because this post to which I now reply is not standing up to critical examination.

...as your post seems very angry.

Then go back and read it as if Philip Yancey was writing it instead of Fred Phelps. You are putting your mind-reading thoroughly false assumptions onto another brother in Christ and the attribution is entirely erroneous.

Stick to the facts in evidence.

Appeals to emotion are fallacious. Works of the flesh, not from the HS. You are undermining your own op.

Not a single sentence withstanding critical scriptural examination.

I realize the power of psychology and how many people want to help others, but I simply think christian counseling and psychology are not really the same.

They may not be but neither you nor the Bobgans have made a scriptural and logical argument for discarding psychology...... and so far the non-argument presented is woefully ill-informed and inadequate.

I posted these works simply to create a dialogue.

Telling posters they feel uncomfortable and their posts are angry is not a dialogue. It's rude and disrespectful. Try practicing Eph. 4:29 and keeping Lk. 6:45 in mind for yourself.

A small interview is just a sample of what is said, he has numerous books and numerous points....

Again: more clueless content. I read the Bobgans' books and articles back in the mid 80s when I first began my studies in psychology. They were wrong then and they are wrong now. I know the critics arguments. You clearly don't know the alternative arguments. Every appeal you make back to one of the Bobgan-influenced arguments is one that avoids the contents of these posts. You said you wanted a dialogue but you're avoiding the posted content. That's not a dialogue, createdtoworship. The evidence so far shows you don't want a dialogue.

What does the Bible say explains that behavior?




So you let me know when you are ready to dialogue about this.

 

[seeking.IAM]

[QUOTE="createdtoworship, post: 74562211]
If we allow our medical insurance to pay for psychology over LMFT Christian counselors, then that is what they will do. Soon there will be no reason for other couselors, psychology will take their place...[/QUOTE]

That LMFT Christian Counselor is well-educated in psychology and likely has more formal training in psychology than theology. LMFT Christian counselors are licensed therapists. They are paid by insurance as well as Medicaid.

Disclaimer: I am an LMFT. My graduate major was Clinical Psychology. And, no, not all psychologists are heathens.

 

[zippy2006]

That to me is more scientific than psychology.

Psychology is a fairly new science, so it's hard to say exactly how compatible it is with Christianity. The obvious danger is Pelagianism, as psychology does not have the inherent limitations of a field like medicine. On the other hand, insofar as it can help us achieve self-knowledge without imposing a problematic anthropology, it is a good thing, and it often does do that.

 

[bèlla]

I know this sounds cliche, but the Holy Spirit can encourage us just the same.

No, it doesn’t sound cliche.

I don't disagree with the need for encouragement, BTW, I simply think psychology uses self esteem to encourage instead of the Biblical sources.

But, I’m not you. We don’t share the same thoughts, experiences, or relationship with God. What feeds you may have little appeal to others.

And that should be okay. We should be able to appreciate our differences and glean from one another. But oftentimes we spend our energy trying to bring others to our way of being. This negates the uniqueness of our makeup...our God-given knitting.

I know your response was well meant and I appreciate it. But it’s also indicative of the group think I find unsettling. You weren’t talking to me. You didn’t ask questions or seek to understand my perspective. You were promoting your own.

Oftentimes, I’m the encourager. That’s a reflection of gifting, disposition, and God’s placement. My spiritual medicine won’t mirror yours. But it’s useful for my benefit and those I’m meant to serve.

~Bella

 

[Josheb]

Good posts, but I am stretched thin to find a reason to go to a psychologist over a christian counselor.

They need not be mutually exclusive conditions. You're arguing a false dichotomy. I am both a Christian counselor and a psychologist.

If we allow our medical insurance to pay for psychology over LMFT Christian counselors, then that is what they will do.

So grossly misinformed that the statement is idiotic. LMFTs are psychologists. They are trained in the same theories, therapies, ethics, and skills as any psychologist at the Masters level. They go through a very similar supervisory process, take very similar certification and licensing examinations, and must use the exact same diagnostic criteria the psychiatrist and the psychologist uses. That was really a very ignorant statement.

Soon there will be no reason for other couselors, psychology will take their place.

Pastoral counselors preceded clinical counselors. Clinical counselors, as I previously noted, have been around about 150 years and in that entire time clinicians have not replaced other counselors. Again, this content is grossly misinformed and incredibly ignorant.

And as someone said psychology is not really a science, it's called a soft science because it's so theoretical. Psychiatry at least has some aspect of science to it remotely speaking.

Baloney. Every PhD must add to the existing body of knowledge in the field based on empirical research within the scientific paradigm and that research is peer-reviewed just like it is in any other science. Again: grossly misinformed.....


I have advanced degrees from both secular and private Christian universities and my studies at the Christian universities required twice as much work and the training was rigorous. You can be crazy and be an accountant. They'll give you your diploma. You can be crazy and be an engineer. Your mental health is immaterial to those professions. You cannot be crazy and be a therapist. They will "invite" you to explore other options (wink, wink). I had to have twice as many books: every single class required a secular text and a Christian-authored text. Double the cost of books. Double the reading. Double the content to be examined upon. Counseling sessions in practicum and internships are filmed, verbatim records are typed up and the sessions and verbatim are submitted for review by the entire teaching staff (all PhDs) and the entire class of other students for all to examine, question, comment upon, make recommendations, etc. Every therapist has to go to therapy. There's no hiding. Bad theology and bad psychology are culled.

So get a clue.


There are bad psychologists. Lots of them. But psychology and Christianity are not antithetical. All truth is God's truth. No science properly discovers anything; we uncover that which God designed into creation.


So......... once again another post of factually erroneous and logically fallacious content. If folks are as critical of the Bobgans shtick as they are of my posts we won't be having these exchanges.

 

[dms1972]

"We must guard against the assumption that all the truth that is needed for the most effective counselling is contained in Scripture. Biblical truth is not a compendium of all necessary knowledge, but a touchstone for testing and verifying other kinds of truth and a structure for integrating them. It is not an encyclopedia, but a tool for making encyclopedias." Richard F. Lovelace

 

[dms1972]

Roots and Shoots by Roger F. Hurding is a good guide to the various types of christian and secular counselling.

 

[Josheb]

"We must guard against the assumption that all the truth that is needed for the most effective counselling is contained in Scripture. Biblical truth is not a compendium of all necessary knowledge, but a touchstone for testing and verifying other kinds of truth and a structure for integrating them. It is not an encyclopedia, but a tool for making encyclopedias." Richard F. Lovelace

And it is not a psychology textbook, a biology textbook, a physics textbook, or a math textbook. We should be wary and admonishing of any Christian leader even remotely insinuating such a condition.

 

[createdtoworship]

Even outside of Christ one needs to have a sober respect for themselves and others that nobody is just a nothing in this world. Nothing worse than trying to convince somebody they have talents and gifts that can be developed and used and they just hang on to a belief that no they're a nothing. So there's nothing wrong with embracing self esteem....all depends on what you mean.



They may need to realize though that they have potential to achieve various things so nothing wrong with supporting their mental state for believing that's true.




But you're talking building a person's self-esteem to the extreme. I don't think you've really shown evidence that it's wrong to build a person's self-esteem in a balanced way.

Self esteem= worldy wisdom (we are inherently good or have natural self worth simply by existing.)

Self worth in Christ= Biblical wisdom ( we have worth positional in Christ. We gain worth as we follow and obey Him.)

To say someone has worth outside of Christ is both wrong, and misleading.

I do believe that we should convince people of their talents. And dig deep to find things people enjoy and are naturally gifted in. But these things are God given. They do not come from "Self" or "self esteem."