Is pre-trib rapture 'theory' anti-Semitic?

[yedida]

Yedida....imagine for a moment that you are seated on the throne of God....and an emergency comes up......would you prefer to inspire a young healthy man to exhibit supernatural physical strength or would you love to use an elderly woman instead???

There are amazing cases of older women lifting a car or other heavy object off a son or grandson who got themselves into trouble perhaps while working on their car!!!


Woman Lifts Car Off Dad Saving His Life - YouTube
Woman Lifts Car Off Dad Saving His Life

All this has NOTHING to do with what I was replying to!!

 

[DennisTate]

All this has NOTHING to do with what I was replying to!!

The connection is the word YOUNG Yedida!!!!

This world is obsessed with youth.....your statement seemed to indicate that you may not have the exact same idea on what God can do through you.....that God does!!!!


Isaiah 40:30 "Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint."

 

[Rawtheran]

What do others (particularly Messianics) think of the pre-trib rapture 'theory'? (I say 'theory', because there is no scriptural basis for it).

The tribulation period is going to be a difficult time for everyone, not least, the Jewish people and Israel. Isn't the notion that believers will be whisked away before this, somewhat repugnant? Isn't the notion that we will support Israel now (while things are relatively good), but when it starts to get really tough, bail out.
Is this thinly veiled anti-Semitism?

To me, the tribulation will be a time of great opportunity for helping others both physically and spiritually. Why are so many believers so cowardly and want to disappear when the doo-doo hits the fan?

If this is what God wanted for us, then so be it, but (in my studies) this is not what he wants for us. We are to go through the tribulation, trust in God and get to helping others and sharing the good news of Y'shua.
What do others think?

The Tribulation is going to be the worse time ever experienced in human history, much worse then World War II, the Jewish exiles, or any known event. In fact Jesus said that God has set short these days for a reason or else no one would survive. In Pretribulation God in his great love will in his great love rapture the Believers so they don't have to go through these events.

 

[Rawtheran]

Sorry didn't mean to double post

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

What do others (particularly Messianics) think of the pre-trib rapture 'theory'? (I say 'theory', because there is no scriptural basis for it).

The tribulation period is going to be a difficult time for everyone, not least, the Jewish people and Israel. Isn't the notion that believers will be whisked away before this, somewhat repugnant? Isn't the notion that we will support Israel now (while things are relatively good), but when it starts to get really tough, bail out.
Is this thinly veiled anti-Semitism?

To me, the tribulation will be a time of great opportunity for helping others both physically and spiritually. Why are so many believers so cowardly and want to disappear when the doo-doo hits the fan?

If this is what God wanted for us, then so be it, but (in my studies) this is not what he wants for us. We are to go through the tribulation, trust in God and get to helping others and sharing the good news of Y'shua.
What do others think?

(A great book on the history of the pre-trib 'theory', who's behind it and what the Scripture says, you can't go past "The Rapture Plot" by Dave MacPherson).
For a briefer article by Mr. MacPherson which sums it up beautifully see :
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/wp-content/uploads/Rapture-Pre-trib-vs.-Post-trib.pdf

As one who was born and raised in the Independant Fundamental Baptist church this is a perfect question for me to answer for you. I was raised believing this theory, and a few others as well. I have since disposed of them.

The average Baptist really is not anti semitic. In fact they feel they truly are for Israel, and pray for her everyday. They are hopeful that a great awakening will happen, and all will come to Jesus. Now that said the theory of the rapture, they believe that all who have received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour will be raptured. They do not believe in a church as a distinct group, the church is thought to be each individual person, and only that person and God knows the truth of their individual Salvation. So they believe that during the rapture some professing church members will be left behind, even some pastors. I hope this helps.

Those of us who have studied know that the Lord is returning one time, at the end of it all, that is when his people will be called to him. Till that day,

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

I tend toward a pre-wrath 'taking up' myself too.
Thanks for your opinion BTW

what is this pre-wrath taking up? does this have to do with Isreal fleeing to the mountains ?

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

I do not think there is a "pre-trib rapture". I think it is a fable to fool many and to give people a false hope that they will be taken out of the world and not have to endure hardsip in their lives.
But, let's just say it were real for some thought.
If "the rapture" were to occur, what would it matter? Could you stop it? Could you get ready for it since you don't know when it happens? But, if it happened, you would be brought to Adonai in your present state. I call this my walk. If I am faithful, then so what, I am with Adonai where I want to be.
If it did not occur, then I am still walking my walk. The whole rapture theory detracts from people concentrating on their walk and doing all they can to please Adonai.
The theory goes that only believers will go up in a rapture. That would leave only unbelieving Gentiles and Jews left on the Earth. This suppose that Adonai would leave only unbelievers for a period of years. I cannot see Adonai leaving mankind without a people to testify of himself and to help those that do come to believe. The sadness is that people would rather be whisked off the earth than to be on earth and suffer if need be for his righteous cause. Since the only ones left would be unbelieving, wicked Gentiles and the Jews, I guess that would leave the hard, dirty work for the Jews in that scenario. Hmmf. people want to be grafted in--and then run and hide when the real fight is going down. I think I will go with option "A" and stand with Adonai against the wickedness and evil and be known for that than being someone that wanted to escape the fight. Escapism would not give Adonai Glory. There is a fight coming, and the People of Adonai are going to be required to stand up for him.
Temptinfates

You are bumping against the real reason, but not quite got it.
Gentile false preachers make millions of dollars off of huge mega churches. In this age of the falling away, were a persons happiness is all important, how do you fill these churches. I had an ole kentucky hillbilly preacher explain it to me this way "fire insurance salvation" I understand many Jews do not believe in a literal hell, but it is a major part of christian doctrine. So what happens is you tell and convince everyone they are going to hell. Then tell them that the end times are here, and before they go to hell they will have to suffer the tribulation. Give them a crash course in Revelations with graphics, make a Kirk Cameron movie Left Behind, then tell them there is a way out. Repeat these words after me and you will be saved and raptured at the end time. Come to church each sunday, were once a month we have a sermon on tithing 10 percent and God will make you rich.

I know I simplified this, but this is the basic outline of today's American evangelical church, and it sorrows me.

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will sit [i.e., as bishop].


Who ever persecuted the catholics, where they not the ones usually doing the persecuting..........

 

[visionary]

In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will sit [i.e., as bishop].


Who ever persecuted the catholics, where they not the ones usually doing the persecuting..........

Did you hear about the transfer of the upper room to RCC and the then takeover over King David's tomb below so much so that the Jews were not any longer allowed to visit? I don't think that any troubles that the RCC have had or will have could be considered persecution.

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

Did you hear about the transfer of the upper room to RCC and the then takeover over King David's tomb below so much so that the Jews were not any longer allowed to visit? I don't think that any troubles that the RCC have had or will have could be considered persecution.

Yes I have, the Baptist and other protestant denominations, and those of the reformation also went thru horrific persecution by the hands of the rcc, that "church" has very bloody hands

 

[jamie2014]

The pre-trib rapture theory is based on the premise that God's people will be spared the wrath of the Lamb descibed in the Revelation. And this is true, but pre-tribbers believe the only way they could be spared from the plagues is to be taken to heaven.

I like to mention to them that Jacob's people in Egypt were spared the plagues on Egypt and they didn't have to go anywhere.

 

[Shulamite]

As one who was born and raised in the Independant Fundamental Baptist church this is a perfect question for me to answer for you. I was raised believing this theory, and a few others as well. I have since disposed of them.

The average Baptist really is not anti semitic. In fact they feel they truly are for Israel, and pray for her everyday. They are hopeful that a great awakening will happen, and all will come to Jesus. Now that said the theory of the rapture, they believe that all who have received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour will be raptured. They do not believe in a church as a distinct group, the church is thought to be each individual person, and only that person and God knows the truth of their individual Salvation. So they believe that during the rapture some professing church members will be left behind, even some pastors. I hope this helps.

Those of us who have studied know that the Lord is returning one time, at the end of it all, that is when his people will be called to him. Till that day,

Amen. I agree. The Lord revealed to me 4 years ago that there is no pretrib gathering to the Lord. We will be gathered to Yeshua AFTER the tribulation of those days, not before. Amen. He will give us what we need to stand and serve Him during that time. I was raised "pre-trib" and I asked the Lord if this was true or false and His Spirit held nothing back from me in revealing that pre trib is false. But, let each person be persuaded in his/her own heart by the Lord, however, He most definitely confirmed to me that our gathering to Him is AFTER the man of sin is revealed and AFTER the Tribulation of those days.
(Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians)

 

[Lulav]

Where did the teaching of the pre trib rapture come from anyway?

 

[visionary]

Where did the teaching of the pre trib rapture come from anyway?

One theory I heard was Margaret McDonald wrote about it in the 1800's and some Jesuit picked it up and saw that was just the answer to get the RCC out of the prophetic bad harlot limelight and with Pope's blessing has been spreading it around ever since. J.N. Darby's bible promoted it. If the believers think there is an escape clause, then they are not going to worry about who the end game players are. Thus the non-importance of who are the bad guys leads to complacency in resisting their advances.

The Catholic have presented that it has always been.. The Pretribulation Rapture Has Been Taught Throughout Christian History

 

[Lulav]

But they didn't make it up out of thin air, I think that article you posted had the answer


"...the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's 'appearing in the air'

This whole appearing in the 'air' thing is what started it, but where did Paul get that idea? Was this really something that had biblical basis or his own interpretation of what would happen?

 

[AbbaLove]

But they didn't make it up out of thin air, I think that article you posted had the answer

"...the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's 'appearing in the air'

This whole appearing in the 'air' thing is what started it, but where did Paul get that idea? Was this really something that had biblical basis or his own interpretation of what would happen?

Any assumption that Paul meant “before the tribulation of those days” at the end of the words you quoted has been inferred by some, but such doctrine is not supported explicitly by scripture.

To believe that Paul’s ‘ideas' are based on his own understanding and not by the Spirit of Truth presents a problem (anti-Pauline) that is contrary to every CF faith forum including this forums SOP. And yes, some so-called Christians that believe certain portions of the OT contains “stories” and not the Truth presents a similar problem (anti-Torah). Two wrongs (anti-Pauline & anti-Torah) don’t make a right.

 

[The Lone Ranger]

The pre-trib rapture theory is based on the premise that God's people will be spared the wrath of the Lamb descibed in the Revelation. And this is true, but pre-tribbers believe the only way they could be spared from the plagues is to be taken to heaven.

I like to mention to them that Jacob's people in Egypt were spared the plagues on Egypt and they didn't have to go anywhere.

Yes, like Daniel was spared from the Lions, and Meshak, Shadrak, and Abednigo were spared from the furnace. It is a narrow path.

 

[visionary]

Amen. I agree. The Lord revealed to me 4 years ago that there is no pretrib gathering to the Lord. We will be gathered to Yeshua AFTER the tribulation of those days, not before. Amen. He will give us what we need to stand and serve Him during that time. I was raised "pre-trib" and I asked the Lord if this was true or false and His Spirit held nothing back from me in revealing that pre trib is false. But, let each person be persuaded in his/her own heart by the Lord, however, He most definitely confirmed to me that our gathering to Him is AFTER the man of sin is revealed and AFTER the Tribulation of those days.
(Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians)

Amen... Baptism by fire...

 

[visionary]

But they didn't make it up out of thin air, I think that article you posted had the answer


"...the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's 'appearing in the air'

This whole appearing in the 'air' thing is what started it, but where did Paul get that idea? Was this really something that had biblical basis or his own interpretation of what would happen?

It might be from the angel's comment "in the same manner you see Him go"..

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.