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Featured Is Paul addressing the elect in these passages?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by K Watt, May 20, 2020.

  1. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    1 Cor 10:12
    So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

    Romans 11
    22Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

    Gal 6
    7Do not be deceived: God is not to be mocked. Whatever a man sows, he will reap in return. 8The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
     
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  2. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    yes
     
  3. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    Then perseverance of the Saints must be an incorrect doctrine.

    Do you agree?
     
  4. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    no

    We have warnings, so we don't go the wrong way.

    But I understand it is like how you can warn your three year old child not to get too close to the edge of a cliff or else your little child can fall and get bashed and torn and killed. But with your warning, you also make sure your child stays back a safe distance.
     
  5. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    Do you warn your child about non existent dangers?
     
  6. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't have children, but I do warn people about things God's word says are a danger. And our Apostle Paul says >

    "warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom" (in Colossians 1:28)

    But if Paul is warning people who are going to heed the warning . . . yes, the danger exists, but we know God's word will succeed in keeping those people from that danger.
     
  7. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    He would not warn us about something that wasn't a threat.

    He warns us because it is possible for us to fall away. He is quite explicit.
     
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  8. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, if a person supposes perseverance means you can live any old way and die and go to Heaven, no this would be the wrong way to understand this.

    But if perseverance means you will spend eternity with Jesus because of how God has corrected you and kept you His way > Hebrews 12:4-14 > this would be correct.

    So, it depends on what you mean by perseverance.
     
  9. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    So it is conditional based on our actions. That's what Paul is saying.

    We can't do it alone, but we have to cooperate with God's grace by turning away from sin and repenting when we fail.
     
  10. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, you can say that. But He does warn us about things which He knows He will keep us from . . . like I say, how you might tell your child not to do something like touch a hot stove, even though you know you will also train your child not to touch the stove. You warn, but also make sure.

    Likewise, He does warn us about various threats, and He also develops our character so we are kept us from giving in to evil things. And even if I am obeying Him, His warnings help to keep me with Him. I might start to give in to a wrong thing, I get a warning, thank You, please correct me, and on we go. He knew the warning would work, because He makes His word work > Isaiah 55:11.

    The warnings succeed in keeping me. His word is guaranteed to get His result > Isaiah 55:11.

    I can be in a boat with a storm around me. There is the danger, but the boat is keeping me safe. Of course, I could . . . in theory . . . go out and jump in the ocean and die, but I stay in the middle of the boat; and I might be told to stay there, but I am going to, anyway. So, the warnings remain, but I am where I need to be.

    I can be told not to go out a certain door, or else; but the likelihood of doing that is nothing, because of how I have become in my disposition to stay in the boat.

    God's correction succeeds in us > Hebrews 12:4-14. We become how He is > "in this world" > 1 John 4:17. But the warning signs are still there, and thank You, God, for changing us so we are safe from that stuff :)

    How can a person be saved . . . and not safe????
     
  11. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    deleted
     
  12. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    deleted double post
     
  13. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is a process, not an event.
     
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  14. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    Good Day, K Watt

    He is addressing churches that are made up of both elect and non-elect.

    In Him

    Bill
     
  15. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What about God's action needed to cause our right actions?

    "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

    We do not work ourselves to will whatsoever God really wants. Plus, in order to submit to Him we need how His work . . . of His grace . . . in us changes our character so we are submissive to Him.

    Then we are safe from danger, though there still is danger.

    For example, I still can give in to unforgivenes and criticizing people instead of having compassion for them. This is dangerous stuff . . . the stuff of hell. So, I stand warned not to give in to it. And I need to submit to God to correct me so I do not give in to Satanic stuff.

    But do I claim credit for bringing my own attention to see how I am starting to go the wrong way? Or is God the One working me to see my need and trust Him to correct me? Based on various scriptures, I understand the credit is to God, alone, at any moment, for if and however I obey Him in His peace, and stay.
     
  16. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    What is the purpose of his warnings?
     
  17. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    Good Day, K Watt

    Agreed :

    Justification is something that is said (declared) about you... You are just
    Sanctification is something that is done to you
    Glorification will change who/ what you are.

    Saved is past, present and future for sure!

    in Him,

    Bill
     
  18. K Watt

    K Watt Well-Known Member

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    We don't know who will be saved in the future.

    That's why Paul warns us to live as we should as Christians. Just because you think you are standing it doesn't follow that you won't fall.
     
  19. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    Good day, Kwatt

    Correct we do not but God does because he saves them to the uttermost ( completely, perfectly, utterly).

    In Him,

    Bill
     
  20. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Our Apostle Paul says >

    "we" "who first trusted in Christ" > in Ephesians 1:12. That was an event.

    Then comes process >

    "'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

    Actually, taking Christ's "yoke" can be included in "first" trusting in Him. This is a beginning event. Then comes the process of learning and finding "rest for your souls", I would say.
     
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