Is Orthodoxy an ideology?

[SingularityOne]

If there are many ideologies in the world, would Orthodoxy be classified as “the true ideology that matches up with how reality is?”

Many people say that ideologies are “evil”. However, it seems to me that ideologies are something that each human creates whether or not they know it.

Are all ideologies “evil”?

 

[archer75]

An ideology is worship of a notion or set of notions. Christianity can't be an ideology because we worship God, not a notion.

We can certainly ACT like it's an ideology, though...and our notion can be about a calendar or a liturgical practice or the supremacy of a local church or whatever...and then we are being ideologues / idolaters.

 

[Halbhh]

Let me describe the common way I use the word "ideology", since I've used it many hundreds of times in discussions.

People usually use the word ideology to refer to a set of ideas (notice here immediately the telling attribute: human ideas, our own notions, abstractions, principles).

Normally we see an ideology of the typical kind used to justify actions we'd otherwise agree are wrong actions. Wrongs. Justifying wrongs.

But by the ideology the person thinks those actions justified.

Also, normally we see a ideology used to filter reality.

To decide what is true or false, even what is right or wrong(!) (be God, replace God), and reject reality, facts, that don't fit.

The ideology becomes self confirming, at least for a time, often long or even life long. It blanks out real things, like a suffering neighbour.

 

[SingularityOne]

An ideology is worship of a notion or set of notions. Christianity can't be an ideology because we worship God, not a notion.

We can certainly ACT like it's an ideology, though...and our notion can be about a calendar or a liturgical practice or the supremacy of a local church or whatever...and then we are being ideologues / idolaters.

Ah, I see. So it’s not an ideology in that “ideologies are idols”. For instance... the Pharisees treated the Holy Tradition like an idol/ideology instead of worshiping the True God.

Orthodoxy is True Worship because it’s about transforming one’s life into becoming truly human, not about following a set of rules... even though the rules guide us towards our truly human state.

If I understand this to mean that “all ideologies are “ignorance/evil/pride”, is that a better understanding?

Edit: Also, could the “true ideology” be the consensus of the Saints?

 

[SingularityOne]

Let me describe the common way I use the word "ideology", since I've used it many hundreds of times in discussions.

People usually use the word ideology to refer to a set of ideas (notice here immediately the telling attribute: human ideas, our own notions, abstractions, principles).

Normally we see an ideology of the typical kind used to justify actions we'd otherwise agree are wrong actions. Wrongs. Justifying wrongs.

But by the ideology the person thinks those actions justified.

Also, normally we see a ideology used to filter reality.

To decide what is true or false, even what is right or wrong(!) (be God, replace God), and reject reality, facts, that don't fit.

The ideology becomes self confirming, at least for a time, often long or even life long. It blanks out real things, like a suffering neighbour.

So, if one worshiped an “idea they had about God”, then that would be “pride” and a false ideology even if they were trying to live by the “ideas” they held about The Commandments of Christ?

In that God is Truth, it seems that humility - The Truth of things - is impossible to truly reach. Could it be said that the “true ideology” is the consensus of the Saints?

 

[Sabertooth]

Are all ideologies “evil”?

In simpler terms, an ideology is one's take on the universe, right or wrong.
It is what we see, know and think that we understand.
It is our working-knowledge.

Even if correct, human ideologies will always be finite, and we must be willing to let the Holy Spirit expand on them.

Ideologies are not bad unless/until they are contrary to God, His Word or His Kingdom.

 

[Halbhh]

So, if one worshiped an “idea they had about God”, then that would be “pride” and a false ideology even if they were trying to live by the “ideas” they held about The Commandments of Christ?

In that God is Truth, it seems that humility - The Truth of things - is impossible to truly reach. Could it be said that the “true ideology” is the consensus of the Saints?

This entire post below is really about word usage.

Well....I am so accustomed to always think of the word 'ideology' is for man-made ideas that are clearly separate from and unconnected to Christianity. So, I'm already keeping in mind you are using it a different way, sort of.... (In contrast to how I use the word 'ideology', if there is in some group a wrong idea about Christ or following Him, that I tend to call 'mistaken doctrine' or such, a fundamentally different category to me, in that it isn't just a political ideology for instance, but a religious idea)

It is possible to blend an exterior ideology, such as a partisan political affiliation for instance (that is clearly unconnected to Christianity in essence), outside idea(s), into one's church/values/practices, and sometimes this interferes with Christianity itself for those that do that. That's a situation with an external worldly 'ideology' which I sometimes try to get others in other groups (not here) to distinguish as separate from Christianity. A clearly external philosophy or allegiance, from the world, imported.

It might (would) get confusing in discussions to use this same single word for such different classes of ideas as (external) ideologies and internal doctrines. But as you are getting at just above, some individual could hypothetically make other mistakes.

In simpler terms, an ideology is one's take on the universe, right or wrong.
It is what we see, know and think that we understand.
It is our working-knowledge.

Even if correct, human ideologies will always be finite, and we must be willing to let the Holy Spirit expand on them.

Ideologies are not bad unless/until they are contrary to God, His Word or His Kingdom.

Here's a possible discussion obstacle: I do not think what I read in scripture is an 'ideology'. Of course, scripture is Truth.

But "ideology" is instead stuff men invent. (as I think of the word)

So, I don't even have a category of 'good ideology'. To me, "ideology" (when applied in the way described in post #3) is when man tries to assume the authority of God, by making himself Judge with a capital J, and deciding what is right and wrong, instead of relying only on God for that.

 

[ArmyMatt]

it's not an ideology, since it's not about concepts, but an encounter with, and experience of, the real Person of the Incarnate God.

 

[Not David]

I disagree with the ideology of "ideology being an idol"

 

[Sabertooth]

Here's a possible discussion obstacle: I do not think what I read in scripture is an 'ideology'. Of course, scripture is Truth.

But "ideology" is instead stuff men invent. (as I think of the word)

Scripture is always correct. Ideology is those parts that we have made to be part of our understanding (if we are doing it right). There are so many other parts that we are yet to receive, grasp, understand or, even, yet to learn. Those parts are true, too. They are just not (yet) part of our working-knowledge (a.k.a. our ideology) of the Kingdom.

"For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known." 1 Corinthians 13:12 NKJV

 

[SingularityOne]

it's not an ideology, since it's not about concepts, but an encounter with, and experience of, the real Person of the Incarnate God.

Thank you for clarifying this. Makes sense. So, where does dogma come into this understanding with this foundation?

 

[dzheremi]

Yes, it is, but only in the sense that is described in Titus 1:15 "To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled."

Some people see ideology in everything/everything as a tool for advancing some ideology, but that says more about them than about Christianity.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thank you for clarifying this. Makes sense. So, where does dogma come into this understanding with this foundation?

the dogmas clarify and help you understand the Person you encounter.

 

[Halbhh]

You 2 are saying correct things. In fact I agree with everything y'all both said.

But...I think it's far more trouble than it's worth to try to redefine/repurpose the widely used secular word "ideology" to replace some other words like 'beliefs' or 'doctrine'.

Here's why "ideology" is going to give you trouble (even if you don't notice it!) if you use it that way a lot:

Common definition: "Ideology" -- a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.

So, no matter if you add a modifier -- like you say 'right ideology' or whatever -- nevertheless many people, including many that never post, will see 'ideology' there and think you meant to suggest or just say that Christianity is only an ideology, basically a lot like like capitalism or socialism. A man-made set of ideas.

Even though that's not what you mean.

So, I'd suggest just use a different word that causes less miscommunication. Or else you might have to add more explanations, and get long and wordy.

Yes, it is, but only in the sense that is described in Titus 1:15 "To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled."

Some people see ideology in everything/everything as a tool for advancing some ideology, but that says more about them than about Christianity.

Scripture is always correct. Ideology is those parts that we have made to be part of our understanding (if we are doing it right). There are so many other parts that we are yet to receive, grasp, understand or, even, yet to learn. Those parts are true, too. They are just not (yet) part of our working-knowledge (a.k.a. our ideology) of the Kingdom.

"For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known." 1 Corinthians 13:12 NKJV

 

[JohnTh]

Orthodoxy is not an ideology. It is a medical science aimed to cure us from our distortions in order to attain the unity with God.

 

[SingularityOne]

Orthodoxy is not an ideology. It is a medical science aimed to cure us from our distortions in order to attain the unity with God.

Okay. Thank you. So, an ideology is man-made. But, Orthodoxy is God-made. Is this a good distinction in understanding?

 

[Not David]

Orthodoxy is not an ideology. It is a medical science aimed to cure us from our distortions in order to attain the unity with God.

If it is about spiritual health, why some claimed Orthodoxy didn't heal them but even make them worse?

 

[ArmyMatt]

If it is about spiritual health, why some claimed Orthodoxy didn't heal them but even make them worse?

because, just like with medicine and therapy, if you ignore how the doctor says to get better, it can make you worse. if a doc gives out pain meds, tells you to take two at a time, and you slam the whole bottle, it's not gonna end well for you.

 

[Not David]

because, just like with medicine and therapy, if you ignore how the doctor says to get better, it can make you worse. if a doc gives out pain meds, tells you to take two at a time, and you slam the whole bottle, it's not gonna end well for you.

Do you have an Orthodox example?
The only thing I can think is doing self-flagellation without the approval of your spiritual father.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Do you have an Orthodox example?
The only thing I can think is doing self-flagellation without the approval of your spiritual father.

taking communion without preparation. St Paul brings this up.