Is Origin of Language proof for a Creator/God?

[trinity101]

In the Bible in Genesis 11:1–9 it says they spoke one language, but since men didn't listen to God, he went down to broke and confuse their language and this is why the world's peoples speak different languages today.

Question 1: If the bible is true, then wouldn't the oldest language be ancient Hebrew? If the oldest language is not ancient hebrew then wouldn't that be conflict with the bible?
Question 2: What is the oldest language officially and unofficially?
Question 3: If the bible is true, then out of Africa theory would be incorrect because Adam would be somewhere in the middle east, right? Or Can the first human be African and the bible still be true?
Question 4: What is the scientific research done to show the origin of humans like Out of Africa theory to be true?

 

[dzheremi]

In the Bible in Genesis 11:1–9 it says they spoke one language, but since men didn't listen to God, he went down to broke and confuse their language and this is why the world's peoples speak different languages today.

This is a warning against being prideful, not a literal or scientific description of how languages came to be or come to be.

Question 1: If the bible is true, then wouldn't the oldest language be ancient Hebrew? If the oldest language is not ancient hebrew then wouldn't that be conflict with the bible?

No and no.

Question 2: What is the oldest language officially and unofficially?

This question is not answerable as asked. We can only go back so far as the written record will take us, as everything before that is at best some very educated, scientifically-reconstructed guesswork. In terms of the written record, the earliest written language is Sumerian, which was written in a cuneiform (wedge-shaped) script on to clay with a stylus. The earliest examples of this writing date to sometime in the area of about 3,300 to 2,600 BC, i.e., from sometime between the 33rd to 26th century BC (much depends on what you mean by 'writing' at this stage: representing the distinct phonemes of a language, or concepts, or what). By comparison, the Paleo-Hebrew script which itself developed from Phoenician dates to around the 10th century BC -- some 16 centuries later. Biblical Hebrew is even younger.

Question 3: If the bible is true, then out of Africa theory would be incorrect because Adam would be somewhere in the middle east, right? Or Can the first human be African and the bible still be true?
Question 4: What is the scientific research done to show the origin of humans like Out of Africa theory to be true?

These are not really language questions.

 

[ewq1938]

In the Bible in Genesis 11:1–9 it says they spoke one language, but since men didn't listen to God, he went down to broke and confuse their language and this is why the world's peoples speak different languages today.

Question 1: If the bible is true, then wouldn't the oldest language be ancient Hebrew? If the oldest language is not ancient hebrew then wouldn't that be conflict with the bible?

We aren't told what the oldest language is. There is no reason to think Adam spoke the same language as the first Hebrews did.

Question 2: What is the oldest language officially and unofficially?

Sign language.

Question 3: If the bible is true, then out of Africa theory would be incorrect because Adam would be somewhere in the middle east, right? Or Can the first human be African and the bible still be true?

I am not sure we know where Adam lived. I also don't believe Adam was the first human but that is a minority view so...

 

[Radagast]

Question 1: If the bible is true, then wouldn't the oldest language be ancient Hebrew? If the oldest language is not ancient hebrew then wouldn't that be conflict with the bible?

No, it wouldn't.

And the oldest language is not ancient Hebrew. Abraham came from Ur, for example, and spoke the language of those people.

Question 2: What is the oldest language officially and unofficially?

No current language is. The languages of Europe and North India have an ancestor called Proto-Indo-European, and we can make some good guesses as to what Proto-Indo-European was like. However, people stopped speaking it a long time ago.

Proto-Indo-European probably had an ancestor that also led to the Semitic and South Indian languages too, but we can't make good guesses about that ancestor.

To put it another way:

• French, German, Latin, Greek, and Hindi are brothers to English.
• Hebrew and Tamil are cousins.
• Languages of Asia, sub-Saharan Africa, and the Americas are distant relations.

Question 3: If the bible is true, then out of Africa theory would be incorrect because Adam would be somewhere in the middle east, right? Or Can the first human be African and the bible still be true?

We don't know where Eden was.

Question 4: What is the scientific research done to show the origin of humans like Out of Africa theory to be true?

Several facts. A big one is that there is more genetic variability within humans in Africa than elsewhere in the world (this is surprising, because if you just look at faces, Africans look similar and the rest of the world looks like it has a lot of variety -- but in fact the opposite is true). See this chart from here:

 

[Radagast]

In terms of the written record, the earliest written language is Sumerian, which was written in a cuneiform (wedge-shaped) script on to clay with a stylus. The earliest examples of this writing date to sometime in the area of about 3,300 to 2,600 BC

Egyptian hieroglyphs go back just about as far, and were developed independently.

 

[juvenissun]

In the Bible in Genesis 11:1–9 it says they spoke one language, but since men didn't listen to God, he went down to broke and confuse their language and this is why the world's peoples speak different languages today.

Question 1: If the bible is true, then wouldn't the oldest language be ancient Hebrew? If the oldest language is not ancient hebrew then wouldn't that be conflict with the bible?
Question 2: What is the oldest language officially and unofficially?
Question 3: If the bible is true, then out of Africa theory would be incorrect because Adam would be somewhere in the middle east, right? Or Can the first human be African and the bible still be true?
Question 4: What is the scientific research done to show the origin of humans like Out of Africa theory to be true?

Theologically, we can say:

The original language was only one, which is what Adam spoke. Hebrew is nowhere to be found yet. Adam may not live in the area of Israel or Iraq. We do not know where was Adam made, but Adam lived in the Garden area (Gen 2), which included part of Africa (so the "out-of-Africa" may not be the right description). According to what's said in Gen 11, languages are not traceable. One language did not evolve from another language continuously like a branching tree. Various languages appeared all of a sudden, and all at once from one original language. They may or may not related to one another in origin. They may not even related to the original language.

The above are not answers, but are some restrictions to what the true story could be. Scientific discoveries on the origin of language SHOULD not be against that.

 

[Cement]

would Hebrew then naturally be the language spoken in Eden and Heaven?

 

[Radagast]

would Hebrew then naturally be the language spoken in Eden and Heaven?

No.

Why should it be? At some point, some of the descendants of Abraham started speaking Hebrew, that's all.

 

[juvenissun]

would Hebrew then naturally be the language spoken in Eden and Heaven?

When God changes the language at the Tower of Babel, did God "save" the original language which does not change? I don't think so. The original language is gone, and Hebrew should just be one of the changed language.

 

[dzheremi]

Egyptian hieroglyphs go back just about as far, and were developed independently.

Yep. Just for everyone's reference, Egyptian writing is generally seen as having emerged around the Old Kingdom period c. 2800 BC, which would make it a bit younger than the outermost band of the proposed range of dates of Sumerian Cuneiform, but within that range they overlap quite a bit -- read: I don't know of anyone who puts written Egyptian at older than 3000 BC ('writing' to mean some form of a symbolic system, sure, but identifiably Egyptian language, no; this is why I wrote earlier that it greatly depends on what you mean by 'writing' here), but both it and Sumerian Cuneiform were certainly developed to where they were both identifiably what we know them as now by 2600 BC, which is when Wikpedia dates the Old Kingdom itself to. So it's appropriate to say that they developed around the same time, and even more appropriate to say that they were developed independently. I guess in the old days a theory used to be that writing must've passed from one people to another, presumably because that's what happened with Cuneiform itself, but that's confusing the invention of writing itself (which occurred independently in a few different areas) with the invention and adaptation of a single writing system. This confusion probably isn't helped by the fact that the Mayan script used to be called "hieroglyphs" because that's what it reminded the Europeans who saw it of, despite being wholly unrelated to the Egyptian (and considerably younger, from c. 3rd century BC).

 

[Jimmy D]

When God changes the language at the Tower of Babel, did God "save" the original language which does not change? I don't think so. The original language is gone, and Hebrew should just be one of the changed language.

How did the stories of the flood, creation week etc get passed down if no one knew the original language they were told in?

 

[juvenissun]

How did the stories of the flood, creation week etc get passed down if no one knew the original language they were told in?

Something like your native language suddenly changed when you are, say, age 22. From then on, you use the new language as your native language. However, that does not erase your memory about the world you once lived in when you were younger than 22. You still can tell your children about your childhood, using your new native language.

Interesting, isn't it?

 

[Speedwell]

I thought it was because Jesus of Nazareth told them to Moses--in what was then Moses' native language--who wrote them down.

 

[Aman777]

We aren't told what the oldest language is. There is no reason to think Adam spoke the same language as the first Hebrews did.

Adam spoke the same language the Lord God/Jesus did since Adam named the creatures Jesus made from the ground at the beginning of the present 6th Day. Genesis 2:19

Sign language.

Of course not. Adam was made with an intelligence which can be compared to God's. Genesis 3:22 Creatures who descended from water are a separate creation. They descended with modifications, from water. Adam was made from the dust.

I am not sure we know where Adam lived. I also don't believe Adam was the first human but that is a minority view so...

Adam was the first man (Hebrew-Adam) formed BEFORE the plants, herbs and trees on the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4-9 It was not until the 5th Day that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from water. Adam's entire firmament, which God called Heaven, was totally destroyed (Greek-perished) in the flood. Genesis 6:13 Isaiah 24:19 2 Peter 3:6 The Scoffers of the last days will not believe this. Do you?

 

[Jonaitis]

I suppose I am in disagreement with members of this forum.

I believe Paelo-Hebrew is the oldest spoken language, and that Phoencian is closely related, but nonetheless younger. I am convinced of this by my interpretation of Scripture (which is older than me). Heber, who is known as the father of the Hebrew race, had a son he named Peleg (division) because it was in his days the world was divided, indicating the event at Babel. Chronogeneaology would place this in the right spot in biblical history. This means Heber spoke that form of Hebrew, an unbroken language since Noah, while the rest of the world spoke their own divided tongues. Abraham was a Hebrew, because he directly descends from Heber.

Other evidence of this is the fact that given names to persons and events preceding Abraham are in Hebrew or resembling it. How does this work with modern archaeology? I don't think they have the full picture, but we must believe the Scriptures.

The important thing to note about Peleg and the division has greater significance imo. Babel separated the OT church of that time from the rest of the world, isolating the gospel to the Hebrew speakers, and them further to Abraham's offspring, further building that wall of hostility between Israel and the world.

 

[Jonaitis]

Where is Eden?

According to Genesis 2:10-14, it was located where the Euphrates and Tigris meets into one river, along with the mysterious Pishon that flows around the whole land of Havilah (1 Samuel 15:7 indictes this might be somewhere east of Egypt, maybe near the eastern peninsula of Sinai) and the Gihon that flowed around Cush (Nubia in East Africa or Sheba near Media).

If we were to figure out the location, it was likely near Babylon or modern day Iraq, maybe near the Persian Gulf.

Scripture gives us data.

 

[Jonaitis]

Question 3: If the bible is true, then out of Africa theory would be incorrect because Adam would be somewhere in the middle east, right? Or Can the first human be African and the bible still be true?
Question 4: What is the scientific research done to show the origin of humans like Out of Africa theory to be true?

The Africa Theory (IMHO) is consistently heretical, not even borderline. Taking Genesis 1-9 metaphorically is consistently heretical.

We need to stay conservative to what the Scripture says regardless of what "scientific discoveries" or "archaeology may disprove." I don't believe modern research is unbiased toward Christians.

 

[juvenissun]

I thought it was because Jesus of Nazareth told them to Moses--in what was then Moses' native language--who wrote them down.

I don't care who wrote it down. It was wrote down.

 

[juvenissun]

Heber, who is known as the father of the Hebrew race,

Is Heber (Eber) the father of Hebrew language?
If so, what language did Salah (Heber's father) use?

I don't like this logic.

 

[Jonaitis]

Is Heber (Eber) the father of Hebrew language?
If so, what language did Salah (Heber's father) use?

I don't like this logic.

Heber is the father of the Hebrew language after Babel, because it was the language of his family after the event. Before the event, it wasn't called Hebrew.

Does the logic make sense now?