Is Observing the 7th day Sabbath a Requirement for Salvation?

[overcomer]

following the bible is not putting anyone on a pedestal and if it was meant for anyday then the papacy would not have had to change it.

What i meant to say is the SDAs flaunt to the sunday-keepers that they keep the true sabbath while themselves transgress the first commandment and therefore don't keep sabbath holy.

 

[corinth77777]

If everyday was a sabbath you wouldn't be able to buy or sell or work.

Well...if He believes that Jesus who created the world ceased from His work. And His work is finished...then to abide in Jesus's finished works...means He is also our Sabbath rest.

 

[BobRyan]

Well...if He believes that Jesus who created the world ceased from His work. And His work is finished...then to abide in Jesus's finished works...means He is also our Sabbath rest.

Consider this -- not text says "Jesus is our Sabbath rest" in NT or OT.

The Gospel was preached to Abraham Gal 3:8 and if it is true that as soon as one decides to place faith in the Messiah - they start breaking the Sabbath commandment - the people of Israel would have remained in rebellion ... including Moses. Yet Moses and Elijah stand WITH Christ in Matthew 17 on the mount of transfiguration... because under the NEW Covenant is the "LAW of God is written on the heart" instead of abolished.

 

[BobRyan]

What i meant to say is the SDAs flaunt to the sunday-keepers that they keep the true sabbath

It is pro-sunday scholars themselves that admit publicly that all TEN of the TEN Commandments apply to Christians and are written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. It is they who claim that the commandment can be "edited" after the cross to point to week-day-1

while themselves transgress the first commandment .

False accusation alone is not "compelling argument"

 

[reddogs]

Deut 6:6 - it was already "fact" -- the LAW of God written in the heart. So also in Ps 119.
New birth - new creation - John 3 - long BEFORE the cross.
Gal 1:6-9 Gal 3:7 ONE Gospel in all of time -- and that Gospel "preached to Abraham"



Sadly conflicted statements in that list



Romans 7 "The LAW IS holy just and good" not merely "WAS".

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the Law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the Law of liberty.





Self conflicted statements - where the truth forces its way to the surface all the while the claim is made that God's LAW has been abolished.



Patching those self-conflicted statements together as you have does not answer the objection raised to your speculations - it affirms those objections.




More self-conflicted statements.




Totally false - the Apostles were all Jews and were all circumcised. And as Acts 21 points out they affirmed the OT text long after the cross including the LAW of God

Far better to "stick with the actual Bible" -

New Covenant Jer 31:31-33 "I will write MY LAW on their heart and on their mind" - Heb 8:6-10 the Law known to Jeremiah and his readers included God's TEN Commandments.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

3. Genesis 2:2-3; And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exodus 20:8-11; remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Ex 16 "tomorrow IS the Sabbath"

6. The decalogue was the 10 commandments of which was in the ark of the covenant. It was called the Law of God and the Law of Moses too. Exodus 20 was in connection and demanded under the Mosaic law. Creation's Sabbath was on Saturday and is for all mankind "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

"The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27


Rather "There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4 -- remains from the time of David - still existing today and also for all eternity in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

And of course Acts 13 Sabbath after Sabbath gospel worship services.
Acts 17 Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath gospel worship services.
Acts 18 Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath gospel worship services.

Not one single example of such a sequence in all of the NT for "week-day-one".

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" in that unit of law that is still binding on the saints.

Quetion: What unit of LAW has the 5th Commandment as the "FIRST commandment with a promise" in it?

The saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.

Question: What ARE quoted as examples of the Commandments of God in Matt 19 and Rom 7 and Romans 13 and James 2? Answer: always it includes the TEN commandments.

Gen 26:5
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

As both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" And the "Westminster Confession of Faith" admit - none of this means that law-keeping is its own gospel or is some alternate way of obtaining salvation - apart from Christ - apart from the Gospel.

God had to write them down but they were always there from the beginning..

 

[steve hartman]

Well...if He believes that Jesus who created the world ceased from His work. And His work is finished...then to abide in Jesus's finished works...means He is also our Sabbath rest.

what does your bible say in exodus 20? Mine says remember the Sabbath DAY not Sabbath Jesus. GOD does not change so when he says day that is what he meant.

 

[corinth77777]

what does your bible say in exodus 20? Mine says remember the Sabbath DAY not Sabbath Jesus. GOD does not change so when he says day that is what he meant.

Gentiles were not included under this Covenant.

It can be said Jesus Christ is that Day of rest.
"Today if you hear his voice do not harden your heart."
The Sabbaths were shadows of things to come.

HEB 3
"But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whosecarcases fell in the wilderness?"

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

 

[corinth77777]

Consider this -- not text says "Jesus is our Sabbath rest" in NT or OT.

The Gospel was preached to Abraham Gal 3:8 and if it is true that as soon as one decides to place faith in the Messiah - they start breaking the Sabbath commandment - the people of Israel would have remained in rebellion ... including Moses. Yet Moses and Elijah stand WITH Christ in Matthew 17 on the mount of transfiguration... because under the NEW Covenant is the "LAW of God is written on the heart" instead of abolished.

It's all in Hebrews 4


4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Jesus rested on the seventh day. When we have faith we become apart of His Body.
And there we find rest. For we cease from our works and count on His Finished work.
All the law is summed up in Him...
Anyone who walk in the Spirit is not under the Law.

Love is fullfillment of the Law
If we walk in the Spirit We will not fullfill the lust of the Flesh

 

[BobRyan]

Well...if He believes that Jesus who created the world ceased from His work. And His work is finished...then to abide in Jesus's finished works...means He is also our Sabbath rest.

Consider this -- no text says "Jesus is our Sabbath rest" in NT or OT.

The Gospel was preached to Abraham Gal 3:8


if it were true that as soon as one decides to place faith in the Messiah - they start breaking the Sabbath commandment - the people of Israel would have remained in rebellion ... including Moses. Yet Moses and Elijah stand WITH Christ in Matthew 17 on the mount of transfiguration... because under the NEW Covenant is the "LAW of God is written on the heart" instead of abolished.

It's all in Hebrews 4

Here is a good example of a place where we do not find the text "Jesus is our Sabbath rest"

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


Jesus rested on the seventh day.

And He also did not take God's name in vain.

When we have faith we become apart of His Body.
And there we find rest.

That is true --- but the 7th day rest is a memorial of creation and a command of God. Just as "do not take God's name in vain" is a command of God. Under the NEW Covenant the LAW of God is written on the heart - instead of abolished.

For we cease from our works and count on His Finished work.

AND STILL we do not take God's name in vain and STILL remember to keep HIS Sabbath day holy as HE commanded.

All the law is summed up in Him...

AND STILL we do not take God's name in vain and STILL remember to keep HIS Sabbath day holy as HE commanded.

Anyone who walk in the Spirit is not under the Law.

Not under the "condemnation of the Law" which is how Paul defines that term in Romans 3:19-20

So then as Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Love is fullfillment of the Law

AND STILL we do not take God's name in vain and STILL remember to keep HIS Sabbath day holy as HE commanded.

 

[corinth77777]

Consider this -- no text says "Jesus is our Sabbath rest" in NT or OT.

The Gospel was preached to Abraham Gal 3:8


if it were true that as soon as one decides to place faith in the Messiah - they start breaking the Sabbath commandment - the people of Israel would have remained in rebellion ... including Moses. Yet Moses and Elijah stand WITH Christ in Matthew 17 on the mount of transfiguration... because under the NEW Covenant is the "LAW of God is written on the heart" instead of abolished.



Here is a good example of a place where we do not find the text "Jesus is our Sabbath rest"

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


Jesus rested on the seventh day.

And He also did not take God's name in vain.

When we have faith we become apart of His Body.
And there we find rest.

That is true --- but the 7th day rest is a memorial of creation and a command of God. Just as "do not take God's name in vain" is a command of God. Under the NEW Covenant the LAW of God is written on the heart - instead of abolished.

For we cease from our works and count on His Finished work.

AND STILL we do not take God's name in vain and STILL remember to keep HIS Sabbath day holy as HE commanded.

All the law is summed up in Him...

AND STILL we do not take God's name in vain and STILL remember to keep HIS Sabbath day holy as HE commanded.

Anyone who walk in the Spirit is not under the Law.

Not under the "condemnation of the Law" which is how Paul defines that term in Romans 3:19-20

So then as Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Love is fullfillment of the Law

AND STILL we do not take God's name in vain and STILL remember to keep HIS Sabbath day holy as HE commanded.

You cannot keep His commandments by trying to keep His commandments.
You become the type of person that will naturally keep it. This is done by the circumcision of the heart. Obey the Spirit..
Be ye transformed by the renewing of the mind....First make the inside clean and the outside will be clean as well.
One is not under the Law...
Nor under the Law for righteousness....when they abide by the Spirit. Would you think about taking His name in vain when you walk by the Spirit?...No
You are either walking in the path of righteousness....or in the flesh.
You cannot drive in 2 opposite directions at one time.....Live by the spirit=life and peace
Or by the flesh =perishing death and distruction

 

[BobRyan]

You cannot keep His commandments by trying to keep His commandments.

This is the response we often get to "Do not take God's name in vain" but that is ok - because Romans 8:4-9 tells us how it is that the saints "Keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" as we see in Rev 14:12.

So then as Romans 8 says - it is the lost who "do not and indeed can not" submit to the Law of God. but the saints who walk in the Spirit - are enabled via the Gospel to obey God's Word... even commandments such as "Do not take God's name in vain".

You become the type of person that will naturally keep it.

Well.. to be frank.. we still have "sinful natures" that are at war against such commandments of God - but via the new-nature, the new-creation and the Holy Spirit we are enabled to "obey anyway".

This is done by the circumcision of the heart. Obey the Spirit..

True. Then all the "do not take God's name in vain" commandments are "not burdensome" as 1 John 5:2-4 points out.


Be ye transformed by the renewing of the mind....First make the inside clean and the outside will be clean as well.
One is not under the Law... "Under the Condemnation of the LAW" Rom 3;19-20 - yet has the "Law written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant.

. Would you think about taking His name in vain when you walk by the Spirit?...No

Also true of not wanting to break the 4th commandment.

 

[BobRyan]

Gentiles were not included under this Covenant.

1. Gentiles were not supposed to take God's name in vain.. includes Noah and all his descendants. all.
2. Gentiles were specifically blessed for keeping the Sabbath in Isaiah 56:1-8.
3. God said - "from Sabbath to Sabbath ALL MANKIND" is supposed to "come before Me to worship not only in the OT - but also for all eternity after the cross in the NT - New Earth.
4. The Sabbath was "made for mankind" Mark 2:27

A bible detail so irrefutable and obvious that even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to it.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[corinth77777]

This is the response we often get to "Do not take God's name in vain" but that is ok - because Romans 8:4-9 tells us how it is that the saints "Keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" as we see in Rev 14:12.

So then as Romans 8 says - it is the lost who "do not and indeed can not" submit to the Law of God. but the saints who walk in the Spirit - are enabled via the Gospel to obey God's Word... even commandments such as "Do not take God's name in vain".




Well.. to be frank.. we still have "sinful natures" that are at war against such commandments of God - but via the new-nature, the new-creation and the Holy Spirit we are enabled to "obey anyway".



True. Then all the "do not take God's name in vain" commandments are "not burdensome" as 1 John 5:2-4 points out.


Be ye transformed by the renewing of the mind....First make the inside clean and the outside will be clean as well.
One is not under the Law... "Under the Condemnation of the LAW" Rom 3;19-20 - yet has the "Law written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant.




Also true of not wanting to break the 4th commandment.

I'll leave you with this passage:

Romans 2:29

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[corinth77777]

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

 

[Bob S]

Well, a lot of water has past under the bridge since I started the OP. I have learned much since I became a member of the forums and I would like to address one thing I have learned and pray that all reading this post will further investigate what I have learned. It may be totally shocking to you as it was with me.

I was reading a passage in Ex 19:5-6 and I reread it several times. I couldn't believe what God said to Moses in those verses. Now I can see it vert plainly and hope you will too.
5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

Israelites were to become a Holy nation? Wait a minute I was under the impression that if they had kept the covenant they would be assured salvation. My next thought was about Moses' revealing how Abraham was saved. It certainly was not by keeping the covenant he was under. Moses revealed it was because of his faith in God. God didn't tell Moses the covenant He was making with Israel had anything to do with salvation. The covenant was to make a great and Holy nation out of those previous slaves. They were to be a beacon to all of God's creation. It was all in the plan of salvation that God instilled before the foundation of the World. All those laws, Torah, were helpless to save even one Israelite no matter how well he/she might have kept them. The New Testament reveals again what Moses wrote about Abraham, we are saved by the grace of God through or faith in Jesus not by the works of any law.

The old covenant was about how God wanted Israelites to live in the desert and in Canaan. The law could be compared to the laws we live under in the nations we live. They had nothing to do with salvation. Had Israel been observant God would have made them a great Holy nation. They failed at every point to become what God wanted them to be.

Jesus came to this failed people and offered Himself as the sacrifice that sacrificial animals could not do, offer salvation to them and all mankind. The old covenant was about laws, laws that were to govern Israel. The new covenant is about Jesus' grace and love. It is the final part of the plan of salvation.

The new covenant is not about keeping the ritual laws that governed Israel. It is not about observing days. It is about our obtaining eternal life with our precious God in Heaven.

Thank you Lord for sending each one of us the Holy Spirit who is willing and able to instill in us the real truth.

 

[corinth77777]

Well, a lot of water has past under the bridge since I started the OP. I have learned much since I became a member of the forums and I would like to address one thing I have learned and pray that all reading this post will further investigate what I have learned. It may be totally shocking to you as it was with me.

I was reading a passage in Ex 19:5-6 and I reread it several times. I couldn't believe what God said to Moses in those verses. Now I can see it vert plainly and hope you will too.
5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

Israelites were to become a Holy nation? Wait a minute I was under the impression that if they had kept the covenant they would be assured salvation. My next thought was about Moses' revealing how Abraham was saved. It certainly was not by keeping the covenant he was under. Moses revealed it was because of his faith in God. God didn't tell Moses the covenant He was making with Israel had anything to do with salvation. The covenant was to make a great and Holy nation out of those previous slaves. They were to be a beacon to all of God's creation. It was all in the plan of salvation that God instilled before the foundation of the World. All those laws, Torah, were helpless to save even one Israelite no matter how well he/she might have kept them. The New Testament reveals again what Moses wrote about Abraham, we are saved by the grace of God through or faith in Jesus not by the works of any law.

The old covenant was about how God wanted Israelites to live in the desert and in Canaan. The law could be compared to the laws we live under in the nations we live. They had nothing to do with salvation. Had Israel been observant God would have made them a great Holy nation. They failed at every point to become what God wanted them to be.

Jesus came to this failed people and offered Himself as the sacrifice that sacrificial animals could not do, offer salvation to them and all mankind. The old covenant was about laws, laws that were to govern Israel. The new covenant is about Jesus' grace and love. It is the final part of the plan of salvation.

The new covenant is not about keeping the ritual laws that governed Israel. It is not about observing days. It is about our obtaining eternal life with our precious God in Heaven.

Thank you Lord for sending each one of us the Holy Spirit who is willing and able to instill in us the real truth.

Amen
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

 

[Bob S]

Amen
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Hi Cori, I have to tell you that I spent 40 years in Adventism. Some of my best friends are in that church. Only a couple of people have ever asked me why I left what they refer to as the truth. Trying to do all that was required was so discouraging and if I didn't, to be blunt, I was going to hell. Mrs White wrote in the 1800's that not one in twenty SDAs were ready for salvation. I wonder how many SDAs are also discouraged with trying to really keep even one thing like Sabbath by not thinking our own thoughts or doing their own pleasure. I would really like to post with those of my former faith to find out what their experience is like.

Jesus set me free from all the restrictions and is still teaching me what abiding in Jesus is all about.

Just think, the old covenant was never about salvation and Sabbath observance was part of the covenants requirements. To tell the World that we are going to hell because we do not observe days when keeping days was not for salvation in the first place is very wrong.

You referenced many great texts explaining why we are not under Torah, I believe bringing Ex 19:5-6 to light further reveals that Christians are not required to observe the ritual laws given only to Israel. Everyone is saved by grace not by any works of Torah.

 

[corinth77777]

Hi Cori, I have to tell you that I spent 40 years in Adventism. Some of my best friends are in that church. Only a couple of people have ever asked me why I left what they refer to as the truth. Trying to do all that was required was so discouraging and if I didn't, to be blunt, I was going to hell. Mrs White wrote in the 1800's that not one in twenty SDAs were ready for salvation. I wonder how many SDAs are also discouraged with trying to really keep even one thing like Sabbath by not thinking our own thoughts or doing their own pleasure. I would really like to post with those of my former faith to find out what their experience is like.

Jesus set me free from all the restrictions and is still teaching me what abiding in Jesus is all about.

Just think, the old covenant was never about salvation and Sabbath observance was part of the covenants requirements. To tell the World that we are going to hell because we do not observe days when keeping days was not for salvation in the first place is very wrong.

You referenced many great texts explaining why we are not under Torah, I believe bringing Ex 19:5-6 to light further reveals that Christians are not required to observe the ritual laws given only to Israel. Everyone is saved by grace not by any works of Torah.

Hi, I'm happy you have been set free [smile]
Even though I speak as this. I still want to make sure I'm not throwing away the baby with the bath water.

 

[Dave-W]

Israelites were to become a Holy nation? Wait a minute I was under the impression that if they had kept the covenant they would be assured salvation. My next thought was about Moses' revealing how Abraham was saved. It certainly was not by keeping the covenant he was under. Moses revealed it was because of his faith in God. God didn't tell Moses the covenant He was making with Israel had anything to do with salvation. The covenant was to make a great and Holy nation out of those previous slaves. They were to be a beacon to all of God's creation. It was all in the plan of salvation that God instilled before the foundation of the World. All those laws, Torah, were helpless to save even one Israelite no matter how well he/she might have kept them. The New Testament reveals again what Moses wrote about Abraham, we are saved by the grace of God through or faith in Jesus not by the works of any law.

The old covenant was about how God wanted Israelites to live in the desert and in Canaan. The law could be compared to the laws we live under in the nations we live. They had nothing to do with salvation. Had Israel been observant God would have made them a great Holy nation. They failed at every point to become what God wanted them to be.

Good observation. Salvation has NEVER been on the basis of obedience to a set of rules; rather it has ALWAYS been on the basis of Faith and His grace toward us.

So where does obedience come in?
It comes in because we know we are in a Family, we love our Father and want with all our hearts to please Him.

To the extent we DISobey, we show that we do not really love our Father and make excuses for disobeying Him.

 

[Bob S]

Good observation. Salvation has NEVER been on the basis of obedience to a set of rules; rather it has ALWAYS been on the basis of Faith and His grace toward us.

So where does obedience come in?
It comes in because we know we are in a Family, we love our Father and want with all our hearts to please Him.

To the extent we DISobey, we show that we do not really love our Father and make excuses for disobeying Him.

I totally agree Dave. Anything that has anything to do with morality towards God, our fellow man and ourselves is contained in the new commandment that Jesus gave us. All the ritual laws given to Israel were to make them a Holy nation. Why would Christians feel the need to observe those?