Is obama the antichrist?

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One day soon, SOMEONE will indeed be revealed (apparent to the whole world or at least Bible-believers) as the anti-christ.

Why does it have to be soon? What makes your theories any more likely to be correct than the thousands of Christians whose bones are now dust, who also predicted the end within their own lifetimes?

You've set yourself up a very convenient situation here...You just kind of blend current events into your eschatology, and then just push the date back indefinitely little by little when things fail to come to any kind of fruition.

I remember hearing that surely Christ would return by the turn of the millenium, or surely when a biblical generation had passed since the foundation of the modern state of Israel. Then we started playing around with the length of a generation to give ourselves decades more time..
 
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HisdaughterJen

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Why does it have to be soon? What makes your theories any more likely to be correct than the thousands of Christians whose bones are now dust, who also predicted the end within their own lifetimes?

You've set yourself up a very convenient situation here...You just kind of blend current events into your eschatology, and then just push the date back indefinitely little by little when things fail to come to any kind of fruition.

I remember hearing that surely Christ would return by the turn of the millenium, or surely when a biblical generation had passed since the foundation of the modern state of Israel. Then we started playing around with the length of a generation to give ourselves decades more time..


We have been given signs. We have been told, NOT the day or hour, but certainly the general time frame of Christ's return. The good samaritan parable demonstrates it, Exodus 19:10-20 shows it, Jesus' own words point to it, and anyone who seeks will be shown great treasures.

I don't have to convince you or anyone. You can stand and mock or you can seek the Lord and He will show you Himself.

Jesus said not to throw pearls to swine. When God shows us something, and people mock and scoff, then that "pearl" is not FOR the mockers and scoffers, but for the person God gave the pearl to.

In other words, God is Sovereign and His Word is Truth. It doesn't have to be proven to those who mock but will come to pass, just as God said.
 
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I don't have to convince you or anyone. You can stand and mock or you can seek the Lord and He will show you Himself.

Yeah, if define 'seeking the Lord' as having arrived at a position that dovetails with conservative theology (aka Jen's theology), which is very convenient for you and very inconvenient for me.

I've seen no overarching pattern to the news that leads me to be particularly afraid, though I'm sure you'll chalk that up to spiritual blindness on my part because I disagree with you.

Jesus said not to throw pearls to swine. When God shows us something, and people mock and scoff, then that "pearl" is not FOR the mockers and scoffers, but for the person God gave the pearl to.

In other words, God is Sovereign and His Word is Truth. It doesn't have to be proven to those who mock but will come to pass, just as God said.

What I'm disputing is the 'soon' part.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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Yeah, if define 'seeking the Lord' as having arrived at a position that dovetails with conservative theology (aka Jen's theology), which is very convenient for you and very inconvenient for me.

I've seen no overarching pattern to the news that leads me to be particularly afraid, though I'm sure you'll chalk that up to spiritual blindness on my part because I disagree with you.



What I'm disputing is the 'soon' part.

ASK, SEEK, KNOCK. It goes back to that whole "born again" thing that you've said you don't believe in.

Soon...as in a few weeks to a few years. The point is that it will all happen exactly as God said it would at the time God said it would happen.

Most of what is being put into place now as far as population control through the bills and agreements doesn't go into effect until 2010-2014. They are preparing NOW for very tight control later.
 
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ASK, SEEK, KNOCK. It goes back to that whole "born again" thing that you've said you don't believe in.

Ah, see, so we're back to me not being as being as good of a christian as you are, and trying to use that as the focal point for our disagreement. That's pretty much I just said would happen.

I could equally say that if you followed MY theology, you wouldn't spend your life living in fear and disappointment.

Soon...as in a few weeks to a few years. The point is that it will all happen exactly as God said it would at the time God said it would happen.

And he wasn't terrible specific even to the *century* this stuff would happen in.

Most of what is being put into place now as far as population control through the bills and agreements doesn't go into effect until 2010-2014. They are preparing NOW for very tight control later.

So in 2015 if nothing has happened we're out of the woods? I'll mark my calendar.
 
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student ad x

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MOD HAT ON


239644-albums1818-20524.jpg



Lets get on topic folks. I am leaving this thread open, so use this opportunity wisely.

MOD HAT OFF
 
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Tyndale

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Given the hour and the signs of the times, that person would have to be alive and currently in a role that will allow him to be declared "the mouth" of the beast, commonly known as the anti-christ.

and also mouthing off from God's Temple as if he were God himself, making religious laws which persecute the Saints and keep God's people in bondage.

Is there such a person living today, a religious person in the Church just like Judas, who sold instruments of salvation, just as Judas sold Christ and recieves confession for mans sin instead of Christ, just as Judas asked the high-Priest for forgiveness.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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and also mouthing off from God's Temple as if he were God himself, making religious laws which persecute the Saints and keep God's people in bondage.

Is there such a person living today, a religious person in the Church just like Judas, who sold instruments of salvation, just as Judas sold Christ and recieves confession for mans sin instead of Christ, just as Judas asked the high-Priest for forgiveness.

It won't have to be "religious laws" which persecute the saints and keep God's people in bondage. It could easily be UN mandated "hate speech" where if you speak about what the Bible says, you'll get your head cut off. It could be population control measures where, if they don't think you are a productive member of society, they deny you health care and a livelihood. It could be measures where, if you don't follow their party line, you could be put on an extremist list or thrown in jail for "crimes against humanity".

http://frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=34198

"
When Barack Obama nominated John P. Holdren as his Science Adviser last December 20, the president-elect stated "promoting science isn’t just about providing resources" but "ensuring that facts and evidence are never twisted or obscured by politics or ideology." In nominating John Holdren, his words could scarcely have taken a more Orwellian ring.

Some critics have noted Holdren's penchant for making apocalyptic predictions that never come to pass, and categorizing all criticism of his alarmist views as not only wrong but dangerous. What none has yet noted is that Holdren is a globalist who has endorsed "surrender of sovereignty" to "a comprehensive Planetary Regime" that would control all the world's resources, direct global redistribution of wealth, oversee the "de-development" of the West, control a World Army and taxation regime, and enforce world population limits. He has castigated the United States as "the meanest of wealthy countries," written a justification of compulsory abortion for American women, advocated drastically lowering the U.S. standard of living, and left the door open to trying global warming "deniers" for crimes against humanity. Such is Barack Obama's idea of a clear-headed adviser on matters of scientific policy.
"
...
""A Comprehensive Planetary Regime"

Holdren believed a world government might play a moderate role in the future: setting and enforcing appopriate population levels, taxing and redistributing the world's wealth, controlling the world's resources, and operating a standing World Army.

Such a comprehensive Plenetary Regime could control the development, administration, conservation, and distribution of all natural resources, renewable or nonrenewable...not only in the atmosphere and oceans, but in such freshwater bodies as rivers and lakes...The Regime might also be a logical central agency for regulating all international trade...The Planetary Regime might be given responsibility for determining the optimum population for the world and for each region and for arbitrating various countries' shares within their regional limits...the Regime would have some power to enforce the agreed limits. (p. 943.)
Part of the power wielded by this "Regime" would be in the form of a World Army. The trio wrote that the United States must destroy all its nuclear arsenal. But this would not render us defenseless against Communist aggression. "Security might be provided by an armed international organization, a global analogue of a police force...The first step necessarily involves partial surrender of sovereignty to an international organization" (p. 917, emphasis added).

Far from distancing himself from this wooly-headed notion as he matured, Holdren explicitly reaffirmed it in his 1995 Nobel Prize acceptance speech on behalf of Pugwash, declaiming, "The post-Cold-War world needs a more powerful United Nations, probably with a standing volunteer force -- owing loyalty directly to the UN rather than to contingents from individual nations." As recently as last January, he told the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) the world needs "a universal prohibition on nuclear weapons, coupled with means to ensure confidence in compliance." (Emphasis added.)

U.S. Blood and Treasure for the UN

The redistribution of blood and treasure were high priorities for Holdren, et. al. They advised the "de-development of overdeveloped countries...should be given top priority" (p. 926), and such nations -- e.g., the United States and the developed West -- should "divert their excess productivity into helping the poorer people of the world rather than exploiting them" (p. 931).

How much wealth redistribution would be sufficient? The authors favorably cited a proposal that "the rich nations devote 20 percent of their GNPs for ten or fifteen years to the task of population control and development of the poor countries." They comment, "We believe an effort of this magnitude is not only justified but essential." (p. 925). Reaffirming the goal in his 1995 Nobel speech, he stretched this to a program "sustained over several decades." (Emphasis added.)

He detailed the mechanism for global socialism just two years ago. In a February 2007 report of which he was a coordinating lead author, urges the United Nations to undertake "a global framework" that is "more comprehensive and ambitious" than the Kyoto Protocol. Holdren states the UN must mandate "A requirement for the early establishment of a substantial price on carbon emissions in all countries, whether by a carbon tax or a tradable permit approach." Although he prefers a global carbon tax presided over by a United Nations-strength IRS, he is open to a stringent global cap-and-trade program. However, that program must contain: "A means for transferring some of the revenue produced by carbon taxes upon, or permits purchased by, countries and consumers with high incomes and high per capita emissions to countries and consumers with low incomes and low per capita emissions" (pp. 70-72). (Emphases in original.)"
 
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It won't have to be "religious laws" which persecute the saints and keep God's people in bondage. It could easily be UN mandated "hate speech" where if you speak about what the Bible says, you'll get your head cut off.

That's not actually happening anywhere.

It could be population control measures where, if they don't think you are a productive member of society, they deny you health care and a livelihood.

40 million people are already being denied healthcare because they're not 'productive' enough.

It could be measures where, if you don't follow their party line, you could be put on an extremist list or thrown in jail for "crimes against humanity".

A lot of people on the extremist list deserve to be there (half of freerepublic). If you want to see abuse of extremist lists, look no farther than a year ago when the Bush administration had Quakers and college professors on the list.

Is it any wonder the government is keeping tabs on right-wing extremists when right-wing extremists are making death threats against the President at 4 times the rate it was under Bush?
 
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HisdaughterJen

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That's not actually happening anywhere.


Oh yeah? Check it out:

FrontPage Magazine - The United Nations: Islam?s Gestapo

"The United Nations: Islam’s Gestapo By: Stephen Brown
FrontPageMagazine.com | Friday, April 11, 2008



Nepotism, corruption, anti-Semitism and now censorship.

While the United Nations has disgraced itself over the years with sporadic eruptions of the first three negatives, it added another one last March 28 when its Human Rights Council passed a disturbing resolution that directs the body’s expert on free speech to report on “individuals and news media for negative comments on Islam.” In effect, the UN will now become the Islamic world’s censorship watchdog, snooping out undefined acts of Islamophobia around the globe. "

more at link




40 million people are already being denied healthcare because they're not 'productive' enough.



A lot of people on the extremist list deserve to be there (half of freerepublic). If you want to see abuse of extremist lists, look no farther than a year ago when the Bush administration had Quakers and college professors on the list.

And what if you are put there because you believe in Biblical end-time's prophecies. YOU are posting in an Eschatology (end times) section of a Christian forum. Are YOU a target?

DHS Report on Right Wing Extremism



Is it any wonder the government is keeping tabs on right-wing extremists when right-wing extremists are making death threats against the President at 4 times the rate it was under Bush?

Yeah, but that comes with the job.
 
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Oh yeah? Check it out:

FrontPage Magazine - The United Nations: Islam?s Gestapo

"The United Nations: Islam’s Gestapo By: Stephen Brown
FrontPageMagazine.com | Friday, April 11, 2008

Nepotism, corruption, anti-Semitism and now censorship.

While the United Nations has disgraced itself over the years with sporadic eruptions of the first three negatives, it added another one last March 28 when its Human Rights Council passed a disturbing resolution that directs the body’s expert on free speech to report on “individuals and news media for negative comments on Islam.” In effect, the UN will now become the Islamic world’s censorship watchdog, snooping out undefined acts of Islamophobia around the globe. "

more at link


I do not believe your source is neutral, and I probably shouldn't even respond to it, but it doesn't have anything to do with people having their heads cut off for hate speech. That's not how hate-speech tribunals work in any place in which there are hate-speech tribunals.

And what if you are put there because you believe in Biblical end-time's prophecies. YOU are posting in an Eschatology (end times) section of a Christian forum. Are YOU a target?

DHS Report on Right Wing Extremism

Maybe I am (doubtful), but as long as they're not violating anyone's civil liberties, and they're keeping a closer eye on domestic terrorism than Bush did Islamic terrorism pre-9/11, I'm not too worried about it.

Prior to 9/11, the greatest act of terrorism committed on US soil was masterminded by two right-wing extremists.

Yeah, but that comes with the job.

No, that comes from being the first black President in a country with a lot of racists.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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I do not believe your source is neutral, and I probably shouldn't even respond to it, but it doesn't have anything to do with people having their heads cut off for hate speech. That's not how hate-speech tribunals work in any place in which there are hate-speech tribunals.

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Maybe I am (doubtful), but as long as they're not violating anyone's civil liberties, and they're keeping a closer eye on domestic terrorism than Bush did Islamic terrorism pre-9/11, I'm not too worried about it.

Prior to 9/11, the greatest act of terrorism committed on US soil was masterminded by two right-wing extremists.



No, that comes from being the first black President in a country with a lot of racists.

10% of the presidents of this nation have been assassinated. And more than that have been shot at or nearly shot at. It's a significant job risk on par with police in this country. Even Bush had a grenade thrown at him...among other things.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4535187.stm

It's got nothing to do with the man's skin color. He's just as much white as he is black.
Why did the crazies assassinate Garfield, McKinley, Lincoln or Kennedy?

Now, enough talk about "right wing extremists" and presidential deaths. I find it repulsive and morbid.
 
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10% of the presidents of this nation have been assassinated. And more than that have been shot at or nearly shot at. It's a significant job risk on par with police in this country. Even Bush had a grenade thrown at him...among other things.
It's got nothing to do with the man's skin color. He's just as much white as he is black.

Then why is he receiving 4x the death threats as one of the most unpopular Presidents in recent history (GWB)? You're practically egging these people on, in my opinion, by trying to paint him as the antichrist.

One need only take a look at freerepublic to note how many people hate Obama because of barely-concealed racism.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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Then why is he receiving 4x the death threats as one of the most unpopular Presidents in recent history (GWB)? You're practically egging these people on, in my opinion, by trying to paint him as the antichrist.

One need only take a look at freerepublic to note how many people hate Obama because of barely-concealed racism.

Just like Bush, Obama has given people plenty of reasons to dislike him regardless of his skin color. Bush was seen as the anti-christ, Blair was seen as the anti-christ....any powerful world leader on the stage this late in the game will be guessed as the anti-christ. We won't know until it becomes obvious.

Again, Bush received death threats and even had a granade thrown at him (as well as shoes, eggs, rocks, among other things). Death threats, it seems, are part of the job description if you are the president. Are you suggesting that people hated Bush because he was white?
 
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Just like Bush, Obama has given people plenty of reasons to dislike him regardless of his skin color. Bush was seen as the anti-christ, Blair was seen as the anti-christ....any powerful world leader on the stage this late in the game will be guessed as the anti-christ. We won't know until it becomes obvious.

Again, Bush received death threats and even had a granade thrown at him (as well as shoes, eggs, rocks, among other things). Death threats, it seems, are part of the job description if you are the president. Are you suggesting that people hated Bush because he was white?

You're really trying to dance around the meat of the matter here. The issue is not whether Presidents receive death threats, because no one is disputing that they do.

Jen, why do you propose Obama receives 4 times as many death threats as Bush with 3X the approval rating?
 
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HisdaughterJen

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You're really trying to dance around the meat of the matter here. The issue is not whether Presidents receive death threats, because no one is disputing that they do.

Jen, why do you propose Obama receives 4 times as many death threats as Bush with 3X the approval rating?

Obama's approval rating, at this stage of his presidency, is less than GWB's approval rating was at the same point.

I think Obama is under fire because of what he stands for and what he is forcing upon the American people through bills which he allows no one to read. He has either completely misread the American people or does not understand American principles and ideology...or doesn't care about either.

It is wrong to threaten any human with death by gun or by rationing their health care. (pain killer vs. surgery)
 
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I think Obama is under fire because of what he stands for and what he is forcing upon the American people through bills which he allows no one to read. He has either completely misread the American people or does not understand American principles and ideology...or doesn't care about either.

And you think that's responsible for him receiving 4X the amount of death threats as the last President?

It is wrong to threaten any human with death by gun or by rationing their health care. (pain killer vs. surgery)

Then you should be against the current system of rationing healthcare by insurance companies. Many people's 'ration' of healthcare under the present system is zero. My high school classmate is in the ground now for a lack of a doctor visit and $4.00 worth of antibiotics from walmart.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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I remember hearing that surely Christ would return by the turn of the millenium, or surely when a biblical generation had passed since the foundation of the modern state of Israel. Then we started playing around with the length of a generation to give ourselves decades more time..
This reminds me of these verses in 2 Peter 3:3,4,5,7,8 & 9 ~ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the Fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He is delaying His coming so that YOU and others can be born again first. That is how much He loves you and is patient. The problem that you and others have, He won't wait forever, and non of us are promised that we will be alive tomorrow.
You act like the Antichrist can't show up in your life time because things appear to you the same as they were like the verses I posted. That is not biblical at all. Jesus is coming like a thief in the night, but the AC has to be revealed first. He has to be revealed to the church because the lost world won't care and won't recognize who he is. Things are not the same as revealed by the Spirit. There is a "shifting in the atmosphere" in the Spirit realm." Those with the Spirit of God can sense it. Those without the Spirit it is business as usual.
In my 50 years as a Christian, I have never thought that anyone was the Antichrist, President or not. Obama I do!!
 
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HisdaughterJen

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This reminds me of these verses in 2 Peter 3:3,4,5,7,8 & 9 ~ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the Fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He is delaying His coming so that YOU and others can be born again first. That is how much He loves you and is patient. The problem that you and others have, He won't wait forever, and non of us are promised that we will be alive tomorrow.
You act like the Antichrist can't show up in your life time because things appear to you the same as they were like the verses I posted. That is not biblical at all. Jesus is coming like a thief in the night, but the AC has to be revealed first. He has to be revealed to the church because the lost world won't care and won't recognize who he is. Things are not the same as revealed by the Spirit. There is a "shifting in the atmosphere" in the Spirit realm." Those with the Spirit of God can sense it. Those without the Spirit it is business as usual.
In my 50 years as a Christian, I have never thought that anyone was the Antichrist, President or not. Obama I do!!

Amen, Nana!

What I can't figure out is...are we in the final weeks or the final few years before it all goes down.

The fact that they want a UN agreement in Copenhagen binding the nations of the world to a scheme to give the UN power by December as well as Obama pushing the cap/tax scheme/healthcare by this Fall makes me think they are taking a MAJOR step forward toward a global government/global financial system aka new world order.

But God can always intervene if the time is not right...

Did you hear Obama say that the stars have aligned for this bill...I thought that was a weird thing to say...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/22/health-care-reform-key/
PS: What did you think about the discovery of Barak meaning lightning in Hebrew and Bama meaning "heights"/heavens in Hebrew rendering Jesus' words, "I saw satan fall as lightning from heaven" into, "I saw satan fall as barak bama" if Jesus was speaking the actual Hebrew words for lightning/heavens. I thought that was really bizarre. What are the chances?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7390325/
 
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