Is not going to church a sin?

[Nadiine]

Both excellent comments! I remember that Jesus spoke to a Samaritan woman and said to her that the place where we worship is not important, only worshiping in spirit and truth is. I wonder why churches got so focused on a day and a building and a human organization. I just read George Barna's book Revolution. He reckons that in 20 years church will look a whole lot different.

hi,
Can I ask where Jesus sais the place where we worship isn't important? I haven't come across a verse like that?

Churches got focused on a building for 3 reasons:

1) We're commanded to assemble together, worship, pray, fellowship, give offerings, baptize and take communion. This takes a PLACE [of whatever size] that we gather in to do these things (if you gather in an empty field, bring your coats, sunscreen or umbrella's.

2) Small home churches GREW AND FLOURISHED (as God added to their numbers & increased them).
Houses cannot hold large groups when they keep growing.
Once they reach that limit, they move to a bigger building to gather. Thats how many churches start and get larger as God is multiplying them. (it's a blessing)

*Q: If the building doesn't matter, then why is there ANY criticism for LARGER buildings at all?
If that's how people feel, then if we meet in a HUGE building, that shouldn't matter to them either. It seems very one-sided to me. The buildings don't matter UNTIL God increases them so that they have to get larger to fit the capacity of worshipers?

3). GOD established large temples in the OT to gather in & bring offerings.
The NT churches practiced corporate worship & they grew in numbers & increased too.
We're just following the same format - then they grow & gain in size & we get a building to accomodate that increase.

 

[LittleladyinChrist]

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This is the verse I believe he was referring to. If you want to use this as an excuse to not worship with fellow believers as a congregation, then you are contracdicting 76 verses in the New Testament which refer to the Lord's Church.

Mat_16:18; Mat_18:17; Act_2:47; Act_5:11; Act_7:38; Act_8:1; Act_8:3; Act_11:22; Act_11:26; Act_12:1; Act_12:5; Act_13:1; Act_14:23; Act_14:27; Act_15:3; Act_15:4; Act_15:22; Act_18:22; Act_20:17; Act_20:28; Rom_16:1; Rom_16:5; Rom_16:23; 1Co_1:2; 1Co_4:17; 1Co_6:4; 1Co_10:32; 1Co_11:18; 1Co_11:22; 1Co_12:28; 1Co_14:4; 1Co_14:5; 1Co_14:12; 1Co_14:19; 1Co_14:23; 1Co_14:28; 1Co_14:35; 1Co_15:9; 1Co_16:19; 2Co_1:1; Gal_1:13; Eph_1:22; Eph_3:10; Eph_3:21; Eph_5:23; Eph_5:24; Eph_5:25; Eph_5:27; Eph_5:29; Eph_5:32; Phi_3:6; Phi_4:15; Col_1:18; Col_1:24; Col_4:15; Col_4:16; 1Th_1:1; 2Th_1:1; 1Ti_3:5; 1Ti_3:15; 1Ti_5:16; Phm_1:2; Heb_2:12; Heb_12:23; Jam_5:14; 1Pe_5:13; 3Jo_1:6; 3Jo_1:9; 3Jo_1:10; Rev_2:1; Rev_2:8; Rev_2:12; Rev_2:18; Rev_3:1; Rev_3:7; Rev_3:14;

 

[LittleladyinChrist]

Sorry here is that verse again

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem , worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Nadiine]

Sorry here is that verse again

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem , worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

K, thanks for offering the verse you were talking about.

But actually, that verse doesn't relay anything about not worshipping in a building or that it isn't important.

He's merely pointing out that our worship needs to be genuine; not just in words, but in SPIRIT.. not just in works, but in Spirit and in the truth.
False worship isn't true worship.

So I do agree w/ the verse, just that it doesn't relay anything about church assembly not being important. We can worship Him IN the church IN spirit and IN truth.

 

[Zeena]

I know the word says to stay in fellowship (not forsake), but what if you are in between churches. Do you feel it's a sin if you don't go to the building, but continue to fellowship with other believers say on the phone or by computer...or listen to sermons on the radio rather than in person?

I would love to hear from you all on this matter...thanks!

I would pose the question as to WHY you would be 'between churches'

Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

And to answer the question posed I say no.
Are you not a church?
Do you converse with God on a moment by moment basis through the Holy Spirit?

Nevertheless..

1 Corinthians 4:8
Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.

Hebrews 11:40
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Romans 1:12
That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Colossians 2:2-3
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Hebrews 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[pdfiddler]

I think John 4:21 is explained further in Luke 17:20,21. "The kingdom of God in not coming with signs to be observed: nor will they say, 'look, here it is!' or,'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."(or within you)

 

[Zeena]

And so, seeing as He is within you, does He forsake the other members of His body, the church?

 

[Koey]

...Luke 17:20,21. "...the kingdom of God is in your midst."(or within you)

"The statement that the kingdom of God “is within/among you” has been the subject of extensive investigation. The view with the longest pedigree is [1] that the phrase should be translated “is within you” and that we are being told that the kingdom of God is an inner spiritual reality...However, it requires that “you” be taken impersonally, which is a little unnatural...Probably the most common modern view... [2] “among/in the midst of” and sees the kingdom of God as present in the person and ministry of Jesus. This fits well with other materials that identify a present coming of the kingdom of God in connection with the ministry of Jesus...[3] A third suggestion is to align the phrase here with...“within one’s reach/in one’s hands/under the control of”...The final view [4] to be considered is that of Bultmann (History, 121–22) and others that the reference is to a future sudden arrival of the kingdom of God...Perhaps best is to see the statement as insisting that when the kingdom of God is due to come it will just be there, right in our midst, with no advance warning and no localized beginning..."
Nolland, J. (2002). Vol. 35B: Word Biblical Commentary : Luke 9:21-18:34. Word Biblical Commentary (853). Dallas: Word, Incorporated.

 

[LittleladyinChrist]

K, thanks for offering the verse you were talking about.

But actually, that verse doesn't relay anything about not worshipping in a building or that it isn't important.

He's merely pointing out that our worship needs to be genuine; not just in words, but in SPIRIT.. not just in works, but in Spirit and in the truth.
False worship isn't true worship.

So I do agree w/ the verse, just that it doesn't relay anything about church assembly not being important. We can worship Him IN the church IN spirit and IN truth.

The verse wasnt originally quoted by me, I just figured the guy wouldnt post it, so I would for him. Who knows.

 

[pdfiddler]

KOEY- Yes it is quite unnatural(it is spiritual). If it isn't within us, it sure isn't among us. That is why we must trust the Lord to reveal his word with spiritual revelation, not human reasoning. All scripture is reasonable, but you can't use reasoning to arrive at his truth. If the kingdom of God is Christ (I am Zion) and ("I am the way, the truth and the life"), and Christ dwells in us, how can the kingdom of God not be within us?

 

[Nadiine]

The verse wasnt originally quoted by me, I just figured the guy wouldnt post it, so I would for him. Who knows.

Oh ok, thanks (sometimes I don't go back far enough to get the originals).

 

[Nadiine]

KOEY- Yes it is quite unnatural(it is spiritual). If it isn't within us, it sure isn't among us. That is why we must trust the Lord to reveal his word with spiritual revelation, not human reasoning. All scripture is reasonable, but you can't use reasoning to arrive at his truth. If the kingdom of God is Christ (I am Zion) and ("I am the way, the truth and the life"), and Christ dwells in us, how can the kingdom of God not be within us?

I think we can use reasoning to arrive at truth - just that we can't fully rely on human reasoning alone.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.​

 

[pdfiddler]

"Let no deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age,let him become foolish that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is the one who catches the wise in there craftiness";and again, "The Lord Knows The Reasoning Of The Wise,That They Are Useless".

 

[Nadiine]

"Let no deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age,let him become foolish that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is the one who catches the wise in there craftiness";and again, "The Lord Knows The Reasoning Of The Wise,That They Are Useless".

Well I guess our bible contradicts itself then, when God says let's reason together?
You're actually using reasoning right now to reply to this post. You're reasoning that it's best to use scripture to witness what is true, and my reasoning is being used in understanding how you're using the verses in reply and how to respond in return - and how your verse interacts with mine when they seem to say 2 opposite things.

You use it whether you realize it or not.
Our ability to use reason helps us understand God's truths. So I disagree that we cannot use it to come to accept truth or know truth from God.

 

[Zeena]

1 John 2:20

• King James Version (KJV)
  But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

 

[Koey]

...you can't use reasoning to arrive at his truth...

"Don't use your mind. Check your brains at the door."

Please forgive me, but God gave us a mind to use. The Bible is full of instructions that God gives us wisdom, knowledge and understanding to be used.

I have heard so many charlatans and religious con men tell us not to use our minds, that it's scary. And well-meaning Christians like yourself, just swallow their line.

One well-known preacher tells people, don't pray when you come down front, just let the the Holy Spirit have his way. What a contradiction! The Holy Spirit would never tell us not to pray.

So many preachers today when confronted with the Scriptures, and their misuse and twisting of it, will simply say, don't use your mind, use your heart.

Well, my Bible says in Jeremiah 17:9 that the heart is deceitful above all things, and I reckon that too many people have been listening to their hearts, thinking it was the Holy Spirit, when it was not. They failed to check their Bibles.

 

[Zeena]

Your 'mind' is in your soul..

Spiritual things are discerned spiritually, not with the soul, but by the Spirit of God!

 

[Koey]

Excellent!

 

[pdfiddler]

Sorry guys, I guess I wasn't clear enough. Your interpretation of Isaiah 1:18 is in error. God is not speaking of human reasoning, but devine reasoning. Our human reasoning is what caused the fall and it's been down hill ever since. I thought we were on the same page, but it seems not so. I pray that God will give you eyes to see and ears to hear.Ask GOD if you are in error! When I was your age, I had that fire and zeal also,(that's good) but more levels of revelation came with maturity(physical & spiritual). I thought I knew so much in my 30's, I was going to let all the world know how they were loosing out(I would set them straight). Then as I matured and grew in knowledge, of myself first, then of the Lord. The more knowledge I received, the more I realized how much I didn't know. That's how it starts by the way. We start in our walk with God, with a 100% focus on us and ends with a 100% focus on him. As long as ourselves are in the picture, He is not(to whatever degree). You may not hear me now, but in 10 or so years(if you continue on to know the lord)you will recall what is being said to you now(it doesn't have to be that long). I hope it doesn't take that long. I am also amazed in reading all these posts in the forums, how much the words ME, MY, I ,are used, instead of HIM, HE, and HIS. It brings to mind the scripure that He must increase, we must decrease. That comes with the cross and maturity. In using scripture as a reply and devine reasoning as a way to discuss this topic it seems that we failed and you all were unable or willing to carry the lighter load but chose the heavier one.I'm in no way trying to tear down what the lord has built up in your life but you have a little ways to go. Before you reply back to this post, reach in to the Lord for spiritual wisdom and compassion and don't act, out of that old carnal nature, act out of that new nature(if you are truly born again). I know you will tell me how much you now the Lord and where do I think I am coming from). I am not saying you don't know thw Lord on a level, but in most every encounter of the Lord and a human, the human fell down as dead and had to be revived. Since we are quoting Isaiah." Woe is me, for I am ruined because I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the lord of hosts. These words came from the most holy man of the nation of Isreal at that time, when receiving,the revelation of our Lord.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord." For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts".

 

[Nadiine]

"Don't use your mind. Check your brains at the door."

Please forgive me, but God gave us a mind to use. The Bible is full of instructions that God gives us wisdom, knowledge and understanding to be used.

I have heard so many charlatans and religious con men tell us not to use our minds, that it's scary. And well-meaning Christians like yourself, just swallow their line.

One well-known preacher tells people, don't pray when you come down front, just the the Holy Spirit have his way. What a contradiction! The Holy Spirit would never tell us not to pray.

So many preachers today when confronted with the Scriptures, and their misuse and twisting of it, will simply say, don't use your mind, use your heart.

Well, my Bible says in Jeremiah 17:9 that the heart is deceitful above all things, and I reckon that too many people have been listening to their hearts, thinking it was the Holy Spirit, when it was not. They failed to check their Bibles.

I so agree, we don't check our minds at the door & then walk into FAITH as if it has NO logic or reasoning within it.

How is the CARNAL, natural man saved, except that he uses that mind to REASON truth of God IN ORDER TO ACCEPT THAT SALVATION?

Anyone telling me to 'check my brain at the door' to accept Christ isn't going to win any brownie points with me.
We use reason every single day - and God's word MAKES LOGICAL SENSE. It's not as if His word & truth are SO wild & fanatically nonsensical, that we have to dump all reason out the window to accept it as such.