Is my Little Sister in Heaven?

[FireDragon76]

Augustine is the last person I would go to on such important issues. This is the man who taught that Jesus paid a "ransom" to the devil by His death, and that God "predestines" the "non-elect" to hell. Both what Paul calls, "doctrines of demons"!

So? Paul said it, it's in the Bible and you are not accounting for it. Why does Paul say sin dwells in him, if sin is only something we do?

Paul never said the ransom theory of atonement was a doctrine of demons. Jesus himself said he came to ransom his life, so the concept is not entirely unbiblical.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

So? We aren't debating ransom theory of atonement or election. Paul said it, it's in the Bible and you are not accounting for it. Why does Paul say sin dwells in him, if sin is only something we do?

Not the way you see it!

 

[FireDragon76]

Not the way you see it!

You're not explaining Romans 7:13-19. What is this "sin" Paul is talking about?

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

You're not explaining Romans 7:13-19. What is this "sin" Paul is talking about?

because people are born with "fallen human natures", does not make them guilty of committing any "actual" sin. sure they will do so later in life, and then they are "accountable" and "punishable" for their personal actions. Romans 7 is not dealing with this.

I have go to go out so if I don't respond it is not because I am being rude!

 

[FireDragon76]

because people are born with "fallen human natures", does not make them guilty of committing any "actual" sin. sure they will do so later in life, and then they are "accountable" and "punishable" for their personal actions. Romans 7 is not dealing with this

"Fallen human nature" is nowhere found in the actual Greek texts. I agree we have a fallen human nature, but this nature is such that we are born estranged from God and do not deserve salvation by right.

Paul said sin dwelled in him. Now you are saying Paul didn't literally mean what he said in plain language.

So much for taking the Bible literally.

 

[JoeP222w]

Which is speaking of David after he dies. Unless you believe that David is in hell, then the only logical conclusion is that David is in heaven, where his son also is! It is that simple!

You are not understanding my point. I was not denying that David is in Heaven. I don't know and no one else knows based on what scripture says. God does not reveal that to us. Is David in Heaven? Yes, it is highly likely. Is his child in Heaven? Yes, it is highly likely. But scripture does not specifically say.

Nor can it be proven or derived directly from the text that the child is in Heaven solely because he was a child. The child is in Heaven because of God's grace and God's election of that child, not because the child had no sin.

If you are claiming the child had no sin solely because he was a child or the child made it to Heaven based solely on his own merit, then you have not demonstrated that from scripture.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

You are not understanding my point. I was not denying that David is in Heaven. I don't know and no one else knows based on what scripture says. God does not reveal that to us. Is David in Heaven? Yes, it is highly likely. Is his child in Heaven? Yes, it is highly likely. But scripture does not specifically say.

Nor can it be proven or derived directly from the text that the child is in Heaven solely because he was a child. The child is in Heaven because of God's grace and God's election of that child, not because the child had no sin.

If you are claiming the child had no sin solely because he was a child or the child made it to Heaven based solely on his own merit, then you have not demonstrated that from scripture.

no one doubts that anyone who gets to heaven, does so because of the Great Marcy and Grace of our Wonderful God. The doctrine of "election" has nothing to do with why all children who die before a certain age, know only to God, go directly to heaven. That Jesus Christ also died for those who are "non-elect" and end up in hell, is also very clear from Scripture. Salvation, from A-Z, is ALL because of what God has done! To Who be ALL Praise, Glory, Thanks, and Love, for His Great Salvation!

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

"Fallen human nature" is nowhere found in the actual Greek texts. I agree we have a fallen human nature, but this nature is such that we are born estranged from God and do not deserve salvation by right.

Paul said sin dwelled in him. Now you are saying Paul didn't literally mean what he said in plain language.

So much for taking the Bible literally.

I am not here interested in Paul's personal sinfulness, but whether babies are born as one who has committed a sin, and therefore, a "sinner"?

 

[truefiction1]

Basically, this happened in 2011 but this question still bugs me.

My sister was 8 years old (right after her first communion), when she got extremely ill. She began to have seizures and doctors found no conventional medications were working. She was rushed in an ambulance and went right from the Trauma unit to the ICU, after having worked on her for quite a while. She was intubated and was placed in a medically induced coma. She was seizing almost continuously for 3 weeks. Then they found a medication called "Lidocaine" which ended up working, but not before severe brain damage.

My sister was completely healthy and normal before, but afterward, she couldn't speak, couldn't read, couldn't write, amongst other things.

My main question here is: Is my old sister currently in heaven, is she trapped in the disabled body, or is she gone forever? :'(

Wisdom of Solomon 3:1-9
But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and no torment will ever touch them.
In the eyes of the foolish they seemed to have died, and their departure was thought to be affliction,
and their going from us to be their destruction; but they are at peace.
For though in the sight of men they were punished, their hope is full of immortality.
Having been disciplined a little, they will receive great good, because God tested them and found them worthy of himself;
like gold in the furnace he tried them, and like a sacrificial burnt offering he accepted them.
In the time of their visitation they will shine forth, and will run like sparks through the stubble.

 

[JoeP222w]

The doctrine of "election" has nothing to do with why all children who die before a certain age, know only to God, go directly to heaven.

You will not be able to prove that from scripture. Scripture describes the election of God, but never sets an age of the individual. That is something completely foreign to scripture.

That Jesus Christ also died for those who are "non-elect" and end up in hell, is also very clear from Scripture.

If Jesus died for the non-elect, then Jesus fails at His salvation, according to your logic. There will be no one in Hell who will be able to say, "I wanted to be saved, but I was of the non-elect, so God was not able to save me."

Nor will someone in Hell ever be able to say, "Jesus died to save me, but because I was non-elect, Jesus failed to save me."

This all comes down to, as it often does, is God's sovereignty or the sovereignty of man.

 

[FireDragon76]

I am not here interested in Paul's personal sinfulness, but whether babies are born as one who has committed a sin, and therefore, a "sinner"?

Yes.

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

Yes.

So, they are "sinners" even though they have not actually "committed" any sin? How is this possible?

 

[TheBibleIsTruth]

You will not be able to prove that from scripture. Scripture describes the election of God, but never sets an age of the individual. That is something completely foreign to scripture.



If Jesus died for the non-elect, then Jesus fails at His salvation, according to your logic. There will be no one in Hell who will be able to say, "I wanted to be saved, but I was of the non-elect, so God was not able to save me."

Nor will someone in Hell ever be able to say, "Jesus died to save me, but because I was non-elect, Jesus failed to save me."

This all comes down to, as it often does, is God's sovereignty or the sovereignty of man.

I invite you to read in the Gospel of Luke, chapter 22, where we read of the Lord's Supper being instituted by the Lord, where He says to ALL the Twelve present, "this is My blood, shed for you". You will note that Judas was still present at the table and took part in this Supper in sharing in the "body and blood" of Jesus Christ. John Calvin, John Gill, and Matthew Henry clearly state that Judas did indeed part-take of the Lord's Supper. This is very important, because Luke shows that Jesus made sure that Judas was still in the room, that He gave him also of the "bread and wine", that He told Judas as well as the other 11, that His "blood was shed for them ALL". If Jesus did not die for Judas, then surely He would have waited for Judas to have left the room, which was not much later, and then given the Supper! Jesus' actions are very clear to the fact, that He died for Judas, who we know did not make it to heaven!

 

[Ron1999]

It sounds to me like she is alive on earth and not dead. If she is really severely brain damaged, she is probably not suffering as long as she is being cared for.

Is she baptized, did she participate in a religious community at all? As a Lutheran I can give you no firm assurances without knowing those kinds of things. But I can say you can have confidence that God is merciful and loves her.

If she is not baptized I would seriously consider looking into a chaplain or minister on how to have this done. It may bring you a sense of peace, at the very least.



This could very well be the case, not understanding you so much as responding to you emotionally in some way, the same way animals can. Parts of her are damaged and likely will never come back in this life.

My partner was in a coma for weeks once around her age and she had an out of body experience. Perhaps these things can happen, we don't know for sure.

She was baptized and went to a Christian school.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

She was baptized and went to a Christian school.

These texts are used for a doctrine known as invincible ignorance.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me. Don’t stop them, because God’s kingdom belongs to people who are like these children.”

Romand 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Romans 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Deuteronomy 1:37-40Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
37 “The Lord was also angry with me because of you. He said to me, ‘Moses, you cannot enter the land, either. 38 But your helper, Joshua son of Nun, will go into the land. Encourage Joshua, because he will lead the Israelites to take the land for their own. 39 You thought your little children would be taken by your enemies. But those children, who are still too young to know right from wrong, will go into the land. I will give it to them. Your children will take the land for their own. 40 But you—you must turn around, take the road to the Red Sea and go back into the desert.’

"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father; neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Ezekiel 18:20

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." Deuteronomy 24:16

"But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the Lord commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin." II Chronicles 25:4

"When the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another." Romans 2:14-15

 

[Daniel Marsh]

What of Isaiah 7:16, "For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good"? And, Romans 9:11, "for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil"? Or of David's words when his son died, "But now he is dead, why should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." (2 Samuel 12:23). It is clear from these passages, that there is a time of "innocence" for young children, who have not as yet "committed any acts" of personal sin. David speaks with assurance that after he died, he would join his infant who had died in heaven.

The text below demonstrates that David went to the Paradise side of the grave.

Hebrews 11:32-33Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
32 Do I need to give you more examples? I don’t have enough time to tell you about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, and the prophets.33 All of them had great faith. And with that faith they defeated kingdoms. They did what was right, and God helped them in the ways he promised. With their faith some people closed the mouths of lions.

 

[FireDragon76]

She was baptized and went to a Christian school.

I'm glad to hear that. I have been praying for her.

 

[Ron1999]

Thank you all very much. I much appreciate it.

 

[buzuxi02]

Thank you. So she's in heaven? :'(

Your sister cannot be trapped in her body as human nature is a psychosomatic union. The one is not complete without the other. The soul apart from the body in of itself cannot act fully without its vessel. This is especially true for carnal people who can no longer act upon their passions upon death the soul feeling a suffocation and gnashing of teeth without its body. This is seen even amongst the bodiless demons who pleaded with Jesus to at least allow them to enter the swine. Not that your sister is carnal of course. Just to show you the flaw in thinking one can be trapped inside their body, its a real union of body and soul.
Scripture teaches us that those such as your sister are in a condition which the works of God are revealed within her, a special kind of introvert. The Kingdom of God is within her. Her family are too pray for her and allow her to live without torment.

 

[RadiantGrace]

Basically, this happened in 2011 but this question still bugs me.

My sister was 8 years old (right after her first communion), when she got extremely ill. She began to have seizures and doctors found no conventional medications were working. She was rushed in an ambulance and went right from the Trauma unit to the ICU, after having worked on her for quite a while. She was intubated and was placed in a medically induced coma. She was seizing almost continuously for 3 weeks. Then they found a medication called "Lidocaine" which ended up working, but not before severe brain damage.

My sister was completely healthy and normal before, but afterward, she couldn't speak, couldn't read, couldn't write, amongst other things.

My main question here is: Is my old sister currently in heaven, is she trapped in the disabled body, or is she gone forever? :'(

When I was a teenager, I had surgery performed on me. I remember falling asleep, but being awake only a few seconds later. I was certain that only a few seconds passed, but that was not the case. It was all done and I lost all sense of time.

To see your sister as she is must be very difficult. No one can assure you that her soul has passed on. We cannot weigh souls anymore than we can weigh angels or God Himself. Our souls, angels, and God are part of something we cannot measure. But your sister is not trapped. If her brain is damaged, then she is not aware like you and me. We can measure brain activity, being conscious and unconscious, awake and asleep.

If she is a living body and an eternal soul, then she is not aware or she is only barely aware. She is not trapped, she is not awake and aware like you and me.