Is music a 'thing of this world' or can it be proven to be 'Holy'?

[Imagican]

Another 'neat' question: "When Satan was an angel dwelling in Heaven serving God, was he EVER exposed to 'music'?

If so, do you suppose that he UNDERSTANDS it's significance BETTER than you or I?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Strong in Him]

Wait a second, let's see a 'show of hands' before we go any further.

Can music BE EVIL? Can music have a NEGATIVE influence on those that hear it if it IS evil? I need to know where each person I respond to 'stands'.

No. I've told you that, twice.
Music is music - a series of sounds, or notes. Certain chords, or clashing notes, played repeatedly, loudly etc may irritate, disturb or affect people, but they have no moral values and cannot be evil - any more than birds singing can be evil.

Songs, written by non Christians, with non Christian, blasphemous or harmful words, are a different matter. But your question was not about songs, but music.

 

[Imagican]

Exactly 'how much' influence does music have upon 'mankind'? Could it inspire men to 'charity'? Love? Humility?

Could it also inspire Hate, Anger, Lust, Apathy?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Strong in Him]

Another 'neat' question: "When Satan was an angel dwelling in Heaven serving God, was he EVER exposed to 'music'?

How are any of us supposed to know that?

Satan was created by God as an angel of light, so it's possible that, before he rebelled and fell, he sang God's praises. But no one knows.

 

[Beorh]

Another 'neat' question: "When Satan was an angel dwelling in Heaven serving God, was he EVER exposed to 'music'?

If so, do you suppose that he UNDERSTANDS it's significance BETTER than you or I?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Hal A Peno]

sxftu

 

[Strong in Him]

Exactly 'how much' influence does music have upon 'mankind'?

It depends on whether, or how much, you like music.
You could ask the same questions about art, sport, watching DVDs etc etc. No sport in itself inspires me; what inspires me are people with disabilities who play sports and achieve much; people who may have been told their life was over and they'd never do anything again.

 

[SkyWriting]

Nice try.
Now, show me 'the song' or 'songs' mentioned. What is the name of the song, it's lyrics, the melody, etc.................
Not the mere mention of 'song', but WHICH song.
Blessings,
MEC

Lets not get off topic please:

Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

I covered that:

They were holding harps from God, 3
and they sang the song of
God’s servant Moses and of the Lamb:

The actual song is as follows:
“Great and wonderful are Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Your ways, O King of the nations! 4Who will not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before You, for Your righteous acts have been revealed.”

 

[Rick Otto]

Really? And how so?

Couldn't I say just the opposite? that the structure of music proves there is a Devil?

Blessings,

MEC

Well done. Turn about is fair play.
Referencing your signature, the highly organised complexities of music are distinguished from chaos by qualities like harmony, composition, resolution, etc. - which suggest a subtext of intention.
"Chaos" and "higher order of complexity" may simply be two ways of looking at the same thing, no?
I'm just spitballin' here, not consciously trying to lead this somewhere.
Besides, if proving God is the objective, it's ok if doing so proves the existence of the devil anyway, right?

 

[Rick Otto]

Why would I be joking about King Jesus singing a hymn?

You didn't give the "address of the scripture you quoted, so you left it open as to whether there actually is one Maybe he just had trouble finding it.
Tell him where it is, bro.

 

[Rick Otto]

Nice try.

Now, show me 'the song' or 'songs' mentioned. What is the name of the song, it's lyrics, the melody, etc.................

Not the mere mention of 'song', but WHICH song.

Blessings,

MEC

I thought you were taking the position ALL music is no good.
Refresh me on the nuance I'm missing, if you would be so kind. BTW, it's a pretty good thread, I think. I'm learning stuff, and there's no tears or bloody noses yet.

 

[Imagican]

And if music can inspire such emotions, isn't that where the inspiration to produce it comes from? If it can inspire hatred, wouldn't hatred need to be it's original 'inspiration' that created it?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

I thought you were taking the position ALL music is no good.
Refresh me on the nuance I'm missing, if you would be so kind. BTW, it's a pretty good thread, I think. I'm learning stuff, and there's no tears or bloody noses yet.

Nope. The Bible speaks of 'Holy music'. What I have tried to question is whether "WE" have the capacity or ability to discern the 'difference' between that which is 'Holy' and that which has the potential to be 'Un-Holy'.

As far as I have been able to determine, our music TODAY is nothing more or less than a 'thing of this world'. It is "WORLDLY" by it's very nature.

In the OT, when we read of the descendants of Cain, we find the first mention of 'musical instruments'. Question: were the descendants of Cain, ANY OF THEM, "Holy"? Do we have ANY information to indicate that Cain's descendants were NOT cursed in the same manner he was: Separated from God?

Could an 'unrighteous' person create that which is 'righteous'? Can 'good fruit' come from a 'bad tree'?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Rick Otto]

And if music can inspire such emotions, isn't that where the inspiration to produce it comes from? If it can inspire hatred, wouldn't hatred need to be it's original 'inspiration' that created it?

Blessings,

MEC

No.
It is a created thing, but it like all created things, are not created evil. The value of the tool isn't determined by the hand that uses it, but by the one who created it.

 

[Rick Otto]

Nope. The Bible speaks of 'Holy music'. What I have tried to question is whether "WE" have the capacity or ability to discern the 'difference' between that which is 'Holy' and that which has the potential to be 'Un-Holy'.

As far as I have been able to determine, our music TODAY is nothing more or less than a 'thing of this world'. It is "WORLDLY" by it's very nature.

In the OT, when we read of the descendants of Cain, we find the first mention of 'musical instruments'. Question: were the descendants of Cain, ANY OF THEM, "Holy"? Do we have ANY information to indicate that Cain's descendants were NOT cursed in the same manner he was: Separated from God?

Could an 'unrighteous' person create that which is 'righteous'? Can 'good fruit' come from a 'bad tree'?

Blessings,

MEC

OH! Thank you.
I would generally agree, but would allow for exception. A believer beset with holiness might still harbor one holy intention,... to be a good spouse, parent, neighbor...
C'mon... have mercy on me, I sin.
Lol,... and I play keyboards in a rock and roll band. We play mostly originals, though. We have one CD available, and play just enough covers to get bar gigs to pay for overhead. The message is basically but not strictly in line with the first two commandments or I couldn't be at peace with it, but we aren't a church band, and I totally get what you mean about Christian Rock, and what gets into churches.
Have to say on the other hand, some of the modern stuff is inspiring in I think, a good way.
Ya got a favorite bad example of song?

 

[JoeP222w]

Matthew 15:10-11 ESV And he called the people to him and said to them, "Hear and understand: (11) it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person."

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Nope. The Bible speaks of 'Holy music'. What I have tried to question is whether "WE" have the capacity or ability to discern the 'difference' between that which is 'Holy' and that which has the potential to be 'Un-Holy'.

As far as I have been able to determine, our music TODAY is nothing more or less than a 'thing of this world'. It is "WORLDLY" by it's very nature.

In the OT, when we read of the descendants of Cain, we find the first mention of 'musical instruments'. Question: were the descendants of Cain, ANY OF THEM, "Holy"? Do we have ANY information to indicate that Cain's descendants were NOT cursed in the same manner he was: Separated from God?

Could an 'unrighteous' person create that which is 'righteous'? Can 'good fruit' come from a 'bad tree'?

Blessings,

MEC

Words are just words, whether spoken or sung. What is important is not the thing, whether words, items used in the Temple, etc, but what it is used for. If an item is worshipped as a god in itself it is a graven image. If words are used to curse a person or God, or to harm someone that is a bad thing as in Matthew 15:11. If words are used to bless someone, worship God, etc that is a good thing.

And with things, if something is made with the intent of using it for evil it may have spiritual implications that can manifest - I have known people who owned witchcraft books and items, Buddha heads and other things that they said had a spiritual darkness so they had to get rid of them. Even so I dont believe the items themselves were unholy, but they certainly attracted unholy spiritual forces and presence and also had an unholy connection in those peoples minds.

As for the descendent of Cain, no one is holy but we can all be made holy by accepting Jesus as our personal savour and He clothes us in robes of righteousness, so that we are deemed as righteous. So it doesnt mater if we come from a "bad tree" once we have accepted Jesus. I am a living example of that. My dad was a horrible and violent man, beating up his wife and kids but too scared to fight with other men. I remember him once saying he hated God and even though I had seem a lot of anger and hate come out of him, when he said that it was the most venomous hatred I had ever seen from him.

Once I was born again I made God my Father and not that man. Man did not make me holy, God did.
John 3:1-21

 

[Phantasman]

Another 'neat' question: "When Satan was an angel dwelling in Heaven serving God, was he EVER exposed to 'music'?

If so, do you suppose that he UNDERSTANDS it's significance BETTER than you or I?

Blessings,

MEC

OT myth, IMO. Satan (imperfection/ignorance) has never been in heaven. Heaven is spiritual purity of the Father.

 

[RDKirk]

You ARE joking, right?

Blessings,

MEC

As they were eating, He took bread, blessed and broke it, gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.”

Then He took a cup, and after giving thanks, He gave it to them, and so they all drank from it. He said to them, “This is My blood that establishes the covenant; it is shed for many. I assure you: I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it in a new way in the kingdom of God.”

After singing psalms, they went out to the Mount of Olives. -- Mark 14

I think you're the one joking, Imagican. You're pulling a Poe on us, aren't you?

 

[RDKirk]

Nope. The Bible speaks of 'Holy music'. What I have tried to question is whether "WE" have the capacity or ability to discern the 'difference' between that which is 'Holy' and that which has the potential to be 'Un-Holy'.

Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God. -- Romans 12

The answer to your question is "yes."