Is music a 'thing of this world' or can it be proven to be 'Holy'?

[Imagican]

I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

Now, music. Go back and read WHO those were that created the first 'musical instruments'. What 'lineage'.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy. Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

Yes, we read that David 'danced' and 'sang' running around naked. We see Moses sister dancing and singing.

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Let us examine this as it EXISTS. Not how one 'feels' or what satisfies their 'lusts'. Let us examine it without any 'influence'.

How 'important' is music in today's 'churches'? What amount of effort and energy is expended towards 'music'? How much money is spent on it. What does the 'Music Director' get paid? What percentage of the gathering is devoted to 'music'?

Now, show me the information offered in the NT that we are to offer such devotion to MUSIC. Where is THAT 'instruction' in the Bible?

If it were SO important as to take up a major portion of the 'collection', a major portion of the TIME spent in the gathering, do you REALLY believe that God would have left this UP TO US to determine? Or would He have offered some INSTRUCTION as to it's PLACE in the gathering.

We are given quite a bit of information about 'the gathering'. Mostly what we SHOULDN'T be doing. But NOTHING offered concerning 'music' being offered such a "high place" in The Church.

So if God didn't inspire the 'concept', who DID? Where did the IDEA come from?

Is music 'a thing of this world'? That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered to find the beginning of the path to knowledge concerning 'music' and it's PLACE in the 'churches'.

If you SAY: "It is inspired by God", PROVE it. Show me the EVIDENCE that music is a product of the direct inspiration of God. Otherwise, it's OBVIOUS that music is a 'thing of this world'. Created by MEN. But the scary part is trying to answer this question: "Where does the inspiration come from"? For if not 'of God', then 'something else'.

I assure you, there are people that enjoy the music in the 'church' more than learning about God or His Son. People that would not attend a 'church' without the 'music'. Yet no evidence in the entire NT that supports it 'in the church'.

Bible Gateway offer these TWO uses of the word music in the ENTIRE NT:

Luke 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee

These are the 'two' references to 'singing' found in the NT:

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Notice that in the first we are to 'speak to OURSELVES' and that the 'melody' is to made 'in our hearts'.

The second offers NO evidence as to HOW we are discern what is indicated to be encouraged. How are we to determine a 'properly inspired' hymn? Just 'guess'? Or is anything written and devoted to 'a' god able to be 'Holy' by simply choosing ONE 'god' or another?

In other words, could I write a 'hymn' devoted to Satan who I call God? Could I sing a hymn devoted to the 'god' of this world? Could praise be offered to Satan in the guise of a hymn?

My point: Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

For you see, it is nothing other than 'influence'. And Satan is more than capable of 'mimicking' anything involving God.

Yes, he can be recognized by them that know HOW. But how many BELIEVE that they can recognize the Devil but are merely fooling themselves into a false sense of security?

Is 'music' a 'thing of this world'? Where did it 'come from'? It's 'inspiration'?

Just LOOK at how influential music is and what it appeals to. It appeals to the FLESH. We can be convinced to LOVE IT. Look how many people devote their entire LIVES to it. Yet what does it actually PRODUCE. Look at the IDOLS we make of those that 'make music' that we LOVE. And look at what a 'song' can DO TO US. Even those that are OBVIOUSLY 'evil' by their very nature.

Ever been to an AC/DC concert? Ever seen what happens to the audience when they perform "Highway to Hell"? I've never seen a group of people that are drunk or high join in something like the audience at one of their concerts when they perform this song. Yet it's like a Satanic Anthem. Where do you suppose THAT influence comes from? God? Or the 'god of this world'?

And just look at the 'appeal' of the performer through their MUSIC. They are like 'Pied Pipers'. People fall in LOVE with them that don't know ANYTHING about them other than the 'music'. Isn't that inherently DANGEROUS. To offer one's devotion to another that they DON'T EVEN KNOW. Only KNOW them through their MUSIC.

And just LOOK how corrupt most are when we DO get to 'know them'.

So, I ask: "Is music a 'thing of this world?" Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Blessings

MEC

 

[SeventyOne]

Why would a song have to be directly inspired by God to have value? Are we not capable to express ourselves, using our own words?

As for music, I suppose it comes down to that which isn't done in faith is sin. If you think it's sinful, then for you it is. On the other hand, if you are just trying to make the claim that music is overtly sinful on it's own, then demonstrate it with clear passages where is it condemned as sin by the Lord.

 

[Beorh]

I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

Now, music. Go back and read WHO those were that created the first 'musical instruments'. What 'lineage'.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy. Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

Yes, we read that David 'danced' and 'sang' running around naked. We see Moses sister dancing and singing.

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Let us examine this as it EXISTS. Not how one 'feels' or what satisfies their 'lusts'. Let us examine it without any 'influence'.

How 'important' is music in today's 'churches'? What amount of effort and energy is expended towards 'music'? How much money is spent on it. What does the 'Music Director' get paid? What percentage of the gathering is devoted to 'music'?

Now, show me the information offered in the NT that we are to offer such devotion to MUSIC. Where is THAT 'instruction' in the Bible?

If it were SO important as to take up a major portion of the 'collection', a major portion of the TIME spent in the gathering, do you REALLY believe that God would have left this UP TO US to determine? Or would He have offered some INSTRUCTION as to it's PLACE in the gathering.

We are given quite a bit of information about 'the gathering'. Mostly what we SHOULDN'T be doing. But NOTHING offered concerning 'music' being offered such a "high place" in The Church.

So if God didn't inspire the 'concept', who DID? Where did the IDEA come from?

Is music 'a thing of this world'? That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered to find the beginning of the path to knowledge concerning 'music' and it's PLACE in the 'churches'.

If you SAY: "It is inspired by God", PROVE it. Show me the EVIDENCE that music is a product of the direct inspiration of God. Otherwise, it's OBVIOUS that music is a 'thing of this world'. Created by MEN. But the scary part is trying to answer this question: "Where does the inspiration come from"? For if not 'of God', then 'something else'.

I assure you, there are people that enjoy the music in the 'church' more than learning about God or His Son. People that would not attend a 'church' without the 'music'. Yet no evidence in the entire NT that supports it 'in the church'.

Bible Gateway offer these TWO uses of the word music in the ENTIRE NT:

Luke 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee

These are the 'two' references to 'singing' found in the NT:

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Notice that in the first we are to 'speak to OURSELVES' and that the 'melody' is to made 'in our hearts'.

The second offers NO evidence as to HOW we are discern what is indicated to be encouraged. How are we to determine a 'properly inspired' hymn? Just 'guess'? Or is anything written and devoted to 'a' god able to be 'Holy' by simply choosing ONE 'god' or another?

In other words, could I write a 'hymn' devoted to Satan who I call God? Could I sing a hymn devoted to the 'god' of this world? Could praise be offered to Satan in the guise of a hymn?

My point: Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

For you see, it is nothing other than 'influence'. And Satan is more than capable of 'mimicking' anything involving God.

Yes, he can be recognized by them that know HOW. But how many BELIEVE that they can recognize the Devil but are merely fooling themselves into a false sense of security?

Is 'music' a 'thing of this world'? Where did it 'come from'? It's 'inspiration'?

Just LOOK at how influential music is and what it appeals to. It appeals to the FLESH. We can be convinced to LOVE IT. Look how many people devote their entire LIVES to it. Yet what does it actually PRODUCE. Look at the IDOLS we make of those that 'make music' that we LOVE. And look at what a 'song' can DO TO US. Even those that are OBVIOUSLY 'evil' by their very nature.

Ever been to an AC/DC concert? Ever seen what happens to the audience when they perform "Highway to Hell"? I've never seen a group of people that are drunk or high join in something like the audience at one of their concerts when they perform this song. Yet it's like a Satanic Anthem. Where do you suppose THAT influence comes from? God? Or the 'god of this world'?

And just look at the 'appeal' of the performer through their MUSIC. They are like 'Pied Pipers'. People fall in LOVE with them that don't know ANYTHING about them other than the 'music'. Isn't that inherently DANGEROUS. To offer one's devotion to another that they DON'T EVEN KNOW. Only KNOW them through their MUSIC.

And just LOOK how corrupt most are when we DO get to 'know them'.

So, I ask: "Is music a 'thing of this world?" Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Blessings

MEC

Concerning the Last Supper:

"And after they (Jesus and his disciples) sang a hymn..."

 

[Jamsie]

I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

Holy defined as "dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose" then Yes. Disagreements may arise as to particular hymns or songs but if the sincere intent is in praise to God then it would appear "holy" is quite acceptable. I think of the hardships and health issues that plagued Thomas Chisholm yet inspired to write "Great is Thy Faithfulness", I find it humbling and testament for faith.

I would only add that perhaps I would not necessarily argue "sacred' or "holy" to much of Classical music but certainly transcendent.

 

[Hal A Peno]

xfgujh

 

[CrystalDragon]

The structure of music proves there is a God.

I wouldn't say that it proves God, but proves human ingenuity. But I like your optimism.

 

[Hal A Peno]

wET

 

[CrystalDragon]

Do you know how it is structured?

It depends on the music. There are different audible frequencies and notes and humans have just found a way to turn it into what we call "music".

 

[Hal A Peno]

sDRgh

 

[CrystalDragon]

God is the world's greatest mathematician. Nearly everthing that lives and moves has a mathematical formula and equasion behind it. God created music, man discovered it.

But we were able to see patterns and create mathematical formulas like E+mc^2 thanks to our intellect

 

[Hal A Peno]

zsdry

 

[RDKirk]

God is the world's greatest mathematician. Nearly everthing that lives and moves has a mathematical formula and equasion behind it. God created music, man discovered it.

This appears to be correct.

 

[Rick Otto]

I wouldn't say that it proves God, but proves human ingenuity. But I like your optimism.

Lol,... how about human ingenuity proves there is a God?
To me existence itself proves there is a God.
Psalm 19.

 

[RDKirk]

But we were able to see patterns and create mathematical formulas like E+mc^2 thanks to our intellect

What's your point with regard to the topic?

The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky proclaims the work of His hands.

If music exists in God's creation to be discovered by humans, the point with regard to this topic is that like everything else in God's creation, it can be dedicated to God--or not--by how humans use it.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Lol,... how about human ingenuity proves there is a God?
To me existence itself proves there is a God.
Psalm 19.

What's your point with regard to the topic?

The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky proclaims the work of His hands.

If music exists in God's creation to be discovered by humans, the point with regard to this topic is that like everything else in God's creation, it can be dedicated to God--or not--by how humans use it.

It may give evidence for a God, but it doesn't necessarily prove the Christian/Biblical God. Just saying.

 

[Rick Otto]

Yeah.
Lucifer was worship leader before this world was, and he didn't get music from this world or himself.
Just because God allowed some fallen angels to teach us it their way doesn't mean music itself is evil.
But the OP concern is not without merit and the subject deserves deep attention.
Just put "using music to cast spells" in a search engine.
Even our language has been manipulated and engineered.

 

[SkyWriting]

I question whether men can 'create' that which is 'Holy' without the direct instruction of God.

We see objects created, (Ark of the Covenant. Items to be placed in the Temple. A staff with snakes on it. Etc..........), by the direct instruction of God Himself.

But we have the commandment given to the Hebrews NOT to create 'graven images'.

So it's obvious the commandment doesn't include direct instruction from God. What it means is we are not to 'take it upon OURSELVES' to make 'graven images'.

Now, music. Go back and read WHO those were that created the first 'musical instruments'. What 'lineage'.

Now, a simple question: Is music a 'thing of this world'? If you say 'some' or 'no', then please explain to me how men are capable of creating that which is Holy. Prove to me that any song ever written was inspired by God.

Yes, we read that David 'danced' and 'sang' running around naked. We see Moses sister dancing and singing.

But show me where dancing and singing were practiced by Christ, or His apostles. Show me where people SANG in the gathering. Or 'danced' in the 'gathering'.

Let us examine this as it EXISTS. Not how one 'feels' or what satisfies their 'lusts'. Let us examine it without any 'influence'.

How 'important' is music in today's 'churches'? What amount of effort and energy is expended towards 'music'? How much money is spent on it. What does the 'Music Director' get paid? What percentage of the gathering is devoted to 'music'?

Now, show me the information offered in the NT that we are to offer such devotion to MUSIC. Where is THAT 'instruction' in the Bible?

If it were SO important as to take up a major portion of the 'collection', a major portion of the TIME spent in the gathering, do you REALLY believe that God would have left this UP TO US to determine? Or would He have offered some INSTRUCTION as to it's PLACE in the gathering.

We are given quite a bit of information about 'the gathering'. Mostly what we SHOULDN'T be doing. But NOTHING offered concerning 'music' being offered such a "high place" in The Church.

So if God didn't inspire the 'concept', who DID? Where did the IDEA come from?

Is music 'a thing of this world'? That is the ONLY question that needs to be answered to find the beginning of the path to knowledge concerning 'music' and it's PLACE in the 'churches'.

If you SAY: "It is inspired by God", PROVE it. Show me the EVIDENCE that music is a product of the direct inspiration of God. Otherwise, it's OBVIOUS that music is a 'thing of this world'. Created by MEN. But the scary part is trying to answer this question: "Where does the inspiration come from"? For if not 'of God', then 'something else'.

I assure you, there are people that enjoy the music in the 'church' more than learning about God or His Son. People that would not attend a 'church' without the 'music'. Yet no evidence in the entire NT that supports it 'in the church'.

Bible Gateway offer these TWO uses of the word music in the ENTIRE NT:

Luke 15:25
Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee

These are the 'two' references to 'singing' found in the NT:

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Notice that in the first we are to 'speak to OURSELVES' and that the 'melody' is to made 'in our hearts'.

The second offers NO evidence as to HOW we are discern what is indicated to be encouraged. How are we to determine a 'properly inspired' hymn? Just 'guess'? Or is anything written and devoted to 'a' god able to be 'Holy' by simply choosing ONE 'god' or another?

In other words, could I write a 'hymn' devoted to Satan who I call God? Could I sing a hymn devoted to the 'god' of this world? Could praise be offered to Satan in the guise of a hymn?

My point: Show me ONE song that can be proven to be "Holy". Simply offer 'evidence' that it is "Holy".

For you see, it is nothing other than 'influence'. And Satan is more than capable of 'mimicking' anything involving God.

Yes, he can be recognized by them that know HOW. But how many BELIEVE that they can recognize the Devil but are merely fooling themselves into a false sense of security?

Is 'music' a 'thing of this world'? Where did it 'come from'? It's 'inspiration'?

Just LOOK at how influential music is and what it appeals to. It appeals to the FLESH. We can be convinced to LOVE IT. Look how many people devote their entire LIVES to it. Yet what does it actually PRODUCE. Look at the IDOLS we make of those that 'make music' that we LOVE. And look at what a 'song' can DO TO US. Even those that are OBVIOUSLY 'evil' by their very nature.

Ever been to an AC/DC concert? Ever seen what happens to the audience when they perform "Highway to Hell"? I've never seen a group of people that are drunk or high join in something like the audience at one of their concerts when they perform this song. Yet it's like a Satanic Anthem. Where do you suppose THAT influence comes from? God? Or the 'god of this world'?

And just look at the 'appeal' of the performer through their MUSIC. They are like 'Pied Pipers'. People fall in LOVE with them that don't know ANYTHING about them other than the 'music'. Isn't that inherently DANGEROUS. To offer one's devotion to another that they DON'T EVEN KNOW. Only KNOW them through their MUSIC.

And just LOOK how corrupt most are when we DO get to 'know them'.

So, I ask: "Is music a 'thing of this world?" Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Blessings

MEC

You need further research:

Luke 15:25 "Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he ...
Ephesians 5:19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and ...
Revelation 18:22 The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and ...
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of ...
Matthew 11:17 "'We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance ...
Luke 7:32 They are like children sitting in the marketplace and ...
Revelation 15:2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass glowing in their places by the sea of glass, with God's instruments of music
Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures having every one an instrument of music, and gold
1 Corinthians 14:7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make ...
Even things without life, having a voice, such as a music-pipe or other instrument
Revelation 15:3 and sang the song of God's servant Moses and of ...
Revelation 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and ...
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy ...
1 Corinthians 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? ...
and sisters? When you come together, each one has a song, has a lesson,
has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation.
Matthew 11:17 "'We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance ...
Luke 7:32 They are like children sitting in the marketplace and ...
James 5:13 Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is ...
.. let him say prayers. Is anyone glad? let him make a song of praise. .... ...
Hebrews 2:12 He says, "I will declare your name to my brothers and ...
Saying, I will give the knowledge of your name to my brothers, I
will make a song of praise to you before the church. ...
Romans 15:9 and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for ...
I will give praise to you among the Gentiles, and I will make a song to your ...
1 Corinthians 14:15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit ...
What then? let my prayer be from the spirit, and equally from the mind;
let my song be from the spirit, and equally from mind.
Mark 14:26 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount ...
.. And after a song of praise to God they went out to the Mountain of Olives. ...
Matthew 26:30 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the ...

 

[CrystalDragon]

Yeah.
Lucifer was worship leader before this world was, and he didn't get music from this world or himself.
Just because God allowed some fallen angels to teach us it their way doesn't mean music itself is evil.
But the OP concern is not without merit and the subject deserves deep attention.
Just put "using music to cast spells" in a search engine.
Even our language has been manipulated and engineered.

Lucifer is not the devil and never was. Just a term meaning Morning Star referring to a Babylonin king. The only reason people think otherwise is because they ignore context and just cherrypick verses that they project their preconceived ideas even though they're completely incorrect.

 

[Rick Otto]

Lucifer is not the devil and never was. Just a term meaning Morning Star referring to a Babylonin king. The only reason people think otherwise is because they ignore context and just cherrypick verses that they project their preconceived ideas even though they're completely incorrect.

Off topic here, but thanks anyway bro.

 

[SkyWriting]

Or can you PROVE to me that there is ONE song that was directly inspired by God?

Revelation 15:3 and sang the song of God's servant Moses and of the Lamb: "Great and
marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true

Revelation 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures
and the elders.

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open
its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God .