Is Mormonism Considered Christian by the Forums?

[jseek21]

Is Mormonism Considered Christian by Christian Forums? Is this a viable denomination according to Christian Forums??

I am not saying that it actually is, the beliefs are so far from Christianity that it is outright blasphemy. However does Christian Forums consider it a Denomination?

 

THREAD GROUND RULES:

This is a Christian and Mormon Discussion.

 

[GTX]

No, it is considered an unorthodox Christian sect AFAIK.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

They are generally placed in the unorthodox theological doctrines category.

 

[Havoc]

Until anyone can come up with substantive evidence of what God considers to be a Christian every sect that claims to follow Christ has an equal right to the title "Christian". That would include Mormons.

 

[Erwin]

Refer to Rule #6 of this site here:

http://www.christianforums.com/misc.php?action=faq&page=4#33

 

[jseek21]

Thus by the definition supported by the forum's doctrinal statement Mormonism is not considered Christianity.

"Until anyone can come up with substantive evidence of what God considers to be a Christian every sect that claims to follow Christ has an equal right to the title "Christian". That would include Mormons."

God has. It's called His Word.

It's like saying that every group that claims to be a American soildier is one, even though they may not belong to the military or even believe in the fundamental beliefs of the American people and constitution.
God says that in the latter times many will claim to be of Him yet abandon truth for a lie masking it as God's word.

 

[wblastyn]

Until anyone can come up with substantive evidence of what God considers to be a Christian every sect that claims to follow Christ has an equal right to the title "Christian". That would include Mormons.

You aren't a Christian so it has nothing to do with you.

 

[seebs]

I don't really form an opinion on things like this; whether or not other people are Christian is unimportant to me. I think they probably don't accept the entire Nicene Creed, so they probably technically don't qualify.

 

[Havoc]

Originally posted by jseek21
Thus by the definition supported by the forum's doctrinal statement Mormonism is not considered Christianity.

"Until anyone can come up with substantive evidence of what God considers to be a Christian every sect that claims to follow Christ has an equal right to the title "Christian". That would include Mormons."

God has. It's called His Word.

It's like saying that every group that claims to be a American soildier is one, even though they may not belong to the military or even believe in the fundamental beliefs of the American people and constitution.
God says that in the latter times many will claim to be of Him yet abandon truth for a lie masking it as God's word.

Your Bible is your criteria for what is a Christian, but you cannot show that your Bible is the word of God.

Mormons have their criteria for what is a Christian. Their Criteria is just as verifiable as yours. They fit that Criteria.

Jehovah's Witness have their criteria for what is a Christian. Their Criteria is just as verifiable as yours. They fit that Criteria.

Christadelphians have their criteria for what is a Christian. Their Criteria is just as verifiable as yours. They fit that Criteria.

Once you can actually show, using substantive evidence that your Bible is indeed the word of God then you have a leg to stand on. Until then, what is a Christian is based on a conflivting mass of different criteria, none of whom has any better standing than any other.

 

[Havoc]

Originally posted by wblastyn
You aren't a Christian so it has nothing to do with you.

This is a debate forum. I'm debating. If that bothers you perhaps you should consider whether you really want to be here.

 

[jseek21]

Havoc, this actually is not a debate forum and thus should not be used as one.

What other proof do you want?? I can show statistical, archealogical, scientific, and historical proof for the Bible, but the truth is this that the Bible is the Word of God. And by the way, every one of the groups you mentioned not only is denied as being Christian by the Bible, but also by their own religious teachings and writings.

 

[Havoc]

Originally posted by jseek21
Havoc, this actually is not a debate forum and thus should not be used as one.

What other proof do you want?? I can show statistical, archealogical, scientific, and historical proof for the Bible, but the truth is this that the Bible is the Word of God. And by the way, every one of the groups you mentioned not only is denied as being Christian by the Bible, but also by their own religious teachings and writings.

/me gently points to the "Open Discussion and Debate" heading.

That should take care of the issue of debating.

As far as proof goes I assume you havn't been following any of the discussions in this section? There is no substantive statistical, archeological, scientific, or historical proof that the Bible is the "Word of God". Christians have never been able to give anything except conjecture and speculation to that regard in the entire 1640 years of apologetics. If you have some new substantive evidence that has escaped all those scholars for all those years please feel free to present it here. I would caution you to look through the posts here so you don't just regurgitate the same old arguements that have been effectively refuted a hundred times here. In short may I note.

The Bible is not an eyewitness account. It was written well after the fact and the original manuscripts are lost. It is highly unlikely that the persons named on the gospels actually penned them.

We have no eyewitness accounts of Christs death and resurrection, only claims in the Bible that there were eyewitnesses. Since the veracity of the Bible is what is in question you cannot use Biblical claims as proof.

The complete lack of independant eyewitness accounts by Jewish scholars of some of the most spectacular miracles ever performed by God (earthquakes, darkness, dead walking the streets of Jerusalem, and the rending of the Temple veil) is a point agains the Bibles veracity. If these things had happened as the Bible claims they would have been dutifully recorded by Jewish historians who believed that all such happenings were acts of God and dutifully recorded them. The lack of any mention of the Rending of the Temple veil is the most telling point of all. 

So please present your new substantive evidence for the veracity of the Bible.

BTW whether the groups mentioned is denied by the Bible is not relevant until you can prove the Bible. The Idea that their own teachings contradict their claims of being Christian by their own criteria is ludicrous.

 

[Quath]

Mormons follow the Old testament and the New Testament. In addition, they have more material that came from Jesus after the New Testament. So to me, they should be more "Christian" than most since they have newer material from Jesus.

Whatever reason you give that Mormon's beliefs or extra books are false, that reason has probably been used to prove the New or Old Testament are false as well.

Scott (Quath)

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by seebs
I don't really form an opinion on things like this; whether or not other people are Christian is unimportant to me. I think they probably don't accept the entire Nicene Creed, so they probably technically don't qualify.

I know you are honest and sincere Seebs and that is why I like to debate you in these forums.  However I think you are not thinking of one side of the equation.  See I see you not wanting to judge others and that is good.  However if a group claiming ot be a Christian denomination actually takes people away from Christ because of their doctrines and theology then the theology and that church must be spoken against. See I believe that it is more loving to speak out against false teachers such as Joseph Smith that persuade ones to accept another gospel.  I know you love people and are generally a good guy.  But can you see what I am sayign here and why it is important in some circumstances to speak out agianst some churches who would take men away from God?

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Quath
Mormons follow the Old testament and the New Testament. In addition, they have more material that came from Jesus after the New Testament. So to me, they should be more "Christian" than most since they have newer material from Jesus.

Whatever reason you give that Mormon's beliefs or extra books are false, that reason has probably been used to prove the New or Old Testament are false as well.

Scott (Quath)

That is a good fairy tale but simply not true. For example the book of mormon was first found (supposedly) in a language that has never been used before.  I think it was given the name new egyptian heirglyphics or something like that.  Now the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek and Armaic.  all known languages spoken in the day of the writing.  And that is just one of many examples of how the book of mormon falls way short.  Another one would be that it contradicts the Bible. 

 

[Havoc]

But in reality Blackhawk, how are we to know? It's just as likely the Mormons are the true Christians and you are leading people away from God. We can't use the Bibl;e as the only Criteria because we have no way of knowing if your Scriptures or theirs are the correct ones. Both sects claim to be the true Christians, both claim to have the infallibel word of God on their side.

How are we to know?

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Havoc
Your Bible is your criteria for what is a Christian, but you cannot show that your Bible is the word of God.

Mormons have their criteria for what is a Christian. Their Criteria is just as verifiable as yours. They fit that Criteria.

Jehovah's Witness have their criteria for what is a Christian. Their Criteria is just as verifiable as yours. They fit that Criteria.

Christadelphians have their criteria for what is a Christian. Their Criteria is just as verifiable as yours. They fit that Criteria.

Once you can actually show, using substantive evidence that your Bible is indeed the word of God then you have a leg to stand on. Until then, what is a Christian is based on a conflivting mass of different criteria, none of whom has any better standing than any other.

No.  Why?  Well firstit really does not matter if Christianity is right or wrong.  That is another point.  But if Christianity claims that the Bible is the Word of God and that anything that contradicts that Bible is not Christian, like orthodox Christianity has, then a church that goes against the Bible can't be Christian.  From Catholics to Baptists all orthodox denominations use the word of God as a standard for truth and if something goes against the word of God then it is wrong.  The Catholics use tradition also but tradition does not go agaisnt the word of God.  Jw's and Mormons and all other unorthodox churches have doctrines that go against the word of God.  The creeds were produced to give a list of what the church beleives that the word of God teaches and what one has to believe the word of God teaches in order for one to be a Christian.  For example one major point is that Jesus is God.  The Jws say Jesus is not God.  Well whatever they are they are not Christians.  Even if they are right Althoguh I do not believe that they are they are still not Christians.  Why?  Because the Christian religion has been defined and Jws do not conform to the definition.  So Jws and Mormons are not Christians and they never were. 

 

[wblastyn]

This is a debate forum. I'm debating. If that bothers you perhaps you should consider whether you really want to be here.

Yes, but you are not a Christian and therefore have no right on who and who should not be considered Christian. How would you like it if I went around claiming who is and isn't Wiccan (or whatever you are) when I'm not one myself.

Mormon beliefs contradict scripture, and the Nicene Creed (which is basically a summary of what Christians believe) and therefore should not be considered Christian. Their beliefs are heretical.

 

[Havoc]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
No.  Why?  Well firstit really does not matter if Christianity is right or wrong.  That is another point.  But if Christianity claims that the Bible is the Word of God and that anything that contradicts that Bible is not Christian, like orthodox Christianity has, then a church that goes against the Bible can't be Christian.  From Catholics to Baptists all orthodox denominations use the word of God as a standard for truth and if something goes against the word of God then it is wrong.  The Catholics use tradition also but tradition does not go agaisnt the word of God.  Jw's and Mormons and all other unorthodox churches have doctrines that go against the word of God.  The creeds were produced to give a list of what the church beleives that the word of God teaches and what one has to believe the word of God teaches in order for one to be a Christian.  For example one major point is that Jesus is God.  The Jws say Jesus is not God.  Well whatever they are they are not Christians.  Even if they are right Althoguh I do not believe that they are they are still not Christians.  Why?  Because the Christian religion has been defined and Jws do not conform to the definition.  So Jws and Mormons are not Christians and they never were. 

The only common definition is that a Christian is one who follows Christ. Anything beyond that is in dispute.

The concept that the your Bible is the criteria for Christianity is your criteria. You have not shown that it is the only valid criteria, or even more valid than the Mormon or JW criteria.

That's really what it comes down to. Who's criteria is correct? You cannot show that your Bible is the infallible Word of God so your criteria cannot superceed theirs. Both of you claim to have the God given Criteria, none of you can show it.

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Havoc
The only common definition is that a Christian is one who folloxs Christ. Anything beyond that is in dispute.

The concept that the your Bible is the criteria for Christianity is your criteria. You have not shown that it is the only valid criteria, or even more valid than the Mormon or JW criteria.

That's really what it comes down to. Who's criteria is correct? You cannot show that your Bible is the infallible Word of God so your criteria cannot superceed theirs. Both of you claim to have the God given Criteria, none of you can show it.

no the Bible being used as a guide for the truths of Christianity is not my critera.  It is a historical theological critera that orthodox Christians have used for millenium. 

And again it for this argument it reallyt does not matter if the Bible is the word of God or if it infallible.  The point is that Christianity has historically taught that the Bible is the word of God and if a teaching goes against the Bible then it is not Christian.  A group sets up its beliefs.  I can't say I am an american because I have lived all my life and was born in France.  Just like I can't say I am an atheist and believe in God.  It does not work.