Is Messianic Judaism heresy?

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Andyman_1970

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arunma said:
What's wrong with that?

First and foremost they have become “holy” holidays and yet the Bible does not include these as such. Granted this is not a salvation issue, and I defer to Romans 14 if folks want to celebrate these holidays – which is great. But if I’m going to elevate a holiday, it’s going to be one that is commanded by God in His Holy infallible, inspired Word, rather than something made up by men.

Remember the Hebrew word for feast is the word mikrah, and means rehearsal, all the feasts point to either the former (spring) rains (feasts) or the latter (fall) rains (feasts) – reference Hosea 6 – which is the spring feasts point to the Messiah’s first coming and the fall feasts point to the Messiah’s second coming. So again, I can’t for the life of me see how celebrating these “rehearsal’s” is a “step backwards”.

arunma said:
I consider it one of Christianity's greatest strengths that former pagans were able to see types of Christ even in their own traditions. If a Muslim convert to Christianity wanted to pray five times daily to Christ, would you object?

And I consider it one of Christianities biggest mistakes. It’s denial of it’s Hebraic roots early on has lead to all sort of anti-Semitism through out the centuries – including some nauseating and un Biblical doctrines such as replacement theology.

arunma said:
To me, it's enough that those European pagans denied the existence of their gods and turned to Yahweh. Furthermore, I think these traditions are valuable. You don't need to be Catholic to appreciate the many fine traditions of the Christian church. In fact, as Baptists we have a unique opportunity to learn from all of the great Christian theologians, without delving into petty arguments over the schisms within the church.

As many of these traditions were man made, and came about after the year 320 AD with the Hellenization of the church and the minimization of it’s Hebrew roots I don’t see much value in these traditions knowing their past.

If we are called to be Holy and set apart, why would we want to do and celebrate what pagans celebrated (with a Christian twist mind you) but yet call what God Himself has commanded to be celebrated a “heresy”…………..I don’t get that at all.

arunma said:
To me, it seems that relying on Moses and the Old Testament feasts is a step in the wrong direction. All those things point to Christ, and it is in him we should trust. After all, why would we celebrate Passover, knowing full well that it points to something greater?

On this point I would strenuously object – as disciples we are to do what Jesus did, Jesus was a Torah observant Jew, if a Jewish Christian (or a Gentile for that matter) wants to observe Torah out of a God given desire to be obedient to His Holy infallible Word then more power to them. I can’t understand how doing what God commanded is a step in the wrong direction? When Jesus says “If you love Me you’ll keep all my commandments” you realize He’s referring to the 613 commands given by God on the Torah?

BTW – I’m a Gentile and I’m not Messianic, nor do I ever think I will be, just so you know where I’m coming from.
 
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novcncy

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Andyman_1970 said:
When Jesus says “If you love Me you’ll keep all my commandments” you realize He’s referring to the 613 commands given by God on the Torah?

Are you quite sure? I doubt it. I don't think Jesus expected Christians to continue burnt offerings. I'm quite sure that He didn't expect us to stay out of the Holy of Holies, else He would have left it intact. Or am I speaking in ignorance? Are those examples I've stated not part of the Torah?
 
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Andyman_1970

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novcncy said:
Are you quite sure? I doubt it. I don't think Jesus expected Christians to continue burnt offerings. I'm quite sure that He didn't expect us to stay out of the Holy of Holies, else He would have left it intact. Or am I speaking in ignorance? Are those examples I've stated not part of the Torah?

So Jesus wasn't a Torah observant Jew - if He had not been He would have been a false Messiah. To a Jewish audience (which Jesus was talking to), if Jesus is saying He is God, then what are His commandments? To a Jew that means the 613 Moses wrote down in the Torah.

Now as for Gentiles read Acts 15................
 
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novcncy

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Andyman_1970 said:
So Jesus wasn't a Torah observant Jew - if He had not been He would have been a false Messiah. To a Jewish audience (which Jesus was talking to), if Jesus is saying He is God, then what are His commandments? To a Jew that means the 613 Moses wrote down in the Torah.

Now as for Gentiles read Acts 15................

Stay focused, hero. I didn't say that Jesus didn't observe the Torah.

I'm questioning whether his statement to keep his commandments REALLY meant keep the Torah. I don't think so. When I consider the context, I think he was telling his disciples to ensure they followed the things he had taught them. He didn't teach them the Torah, they already knew that, long before He got here. You're stretching to equate Jesus command to keep his commandments with keeping the Torah.

What I DID ask, was whether those examples of laws I posted, which are impossible to keep, are part of the Torah. If they are, then surely it is obvious that Jesus couldn't have meant by his statement to keep "all" the rules of the Torah. If the examples are not part of the Torah, but rather some other part of the Mosaic law, then the logic falls through. Fine, but what's the answer to the question? I can see I will probably have to figure it out for myself. Oh well, at least that way I will be sure some preposterous stretch isn't being made to connect point A to B!
 
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9-iron

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I've even heard stories of people becoming so engrossed in Messianic Judaism that they simply convert to Orthodox Judaism and reject Jesus altogether.

Yep, it happened to a guy on this forum. I don't think you can blame the Messianics for that though.



Check out the Zola Levitt show.
 
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Andyman_1970

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9-iron said:


Yep, it happened to a guy on this forum. I don't think you can blame the Messianics for that though.

I know who you speak of, he is a good friend of mine, I hated to see him "leave" the faith...........

9-iron said:
Check out the Zola Levitt show.

I like Zola he's a pretty good representation of what a Messianic is.
 
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Cright

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You must spread more reputation around before giving it to PG again!

eek

I was very interested in Messianiac Judiasim at one point, never hearing of it until about a year ago or so. I went to the MJ congregational forum, asked a few questions (politely so they didn't think I was attacking them) and then got some very detailed answers and even some links to other similar threads for more answers. They are very open to answering questions about their faith. They are a well researched group of people, and I learned alot from them.

So to the OP, I definatly don't think that the MJ faith is heresy in the least.

God Bless,
Carina
 
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