Is masturbating without fantasizing a sin?

Freedom63

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There is no place in the bible where sexual fantasy is declared to be sinful. Lust as used by Jesus regarding looking at a woman does not mean sexual thought or desire. Lust, when studied in the original language, is a coveteous and strong desire to posess something and it is sinful when it would violate the law of love to posess it.

Simple sexual thought or even fantasy is not sinful. Neither is masturbation. Therefor there is no sin in combining the two.
 
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Hentenza

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There is no place in the bible where sexual fantasy is declared to be sinful. Lust as used by Jesus regarding looking at a woman does not mean sexual thought or desire. Lust, when studied in the original language, is a coveteous and strong desire to posess something and it is sinful when it would violate the law of love to posess it.

Simple sexual thought or even fantasy is not sinful. Neither is masturbation. Therefor there is no sin in combining the two.

In Matt. 5:28 the Greek word used is epithymeo which comes from the root thymos. Here is a study of both the combined word and the root from the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. I hope you find it helpful.

thymós (→ orgḗ). thýō denotes violent movement (of air, water, the ground, or living creatures). From the sense “to boil up” comes “to smoke” and then “to sacrifice.” thymós means what is moved or moves, i.e., vital force, and it may then denote such varied things as desire, impulse, spirit, anger, sensibility, disposition, and thought. In the NT thymós occurs five times in Paul, once in Hebrews, twice in Luke, and ten times in Revelation (five with toú theoú). The meaning is always “wrath,” human in Paul, Hebrews, and Luke but not in Rom. 2:8, divine in Revelation except in 12:12 (the dragon’s wrath). Symbols are wine and cup (from the OT), as well as vials (cf. Rev. 14:10, 19; 15:7). In Rev. 14:8; 18:3 Babylon has brought the nations into ungodliness, so that they have fallen into sin and under God’s wrath (cf. Jer. 25:15ff.). thymós is the same as wrath, and the phrase the thymós of wrath (orgē) occurs in Rev. 16:19; 19:15.

epithymía, epithyméō (→ hēdonḗ ). From where the English word hedonism is derived.
1. This group denotes desire, especially for food or sex. This desire is morally neutral at first, but philosophy, holding aloof from the sensory world, regards it as reprehensible, and in Stoicism epithymía is one of the four chief passions. Epicurus distinguishes between natural and illicit desires, subdividing the former into the purely natural and those that are necessary to happiness.
2. The OT condemns the evil will as well as the evil act, e.g., coveting. Sexual self-discipline is demanded (cf. 2 Sam. 11:2). In Judaism fasting, regulation of meats, and strict keeping of the sabbath are important. Desire is sometimes viewed as the main sin, for epithymía conflicts with supreme devotion to God.
3. Stoicism and Judaism combine in the Hellenists. The LXX has epithymía for base desire in, e.g., Num. 11:4 (though epithymeín can denote pious striving in Is 58:2). Philo summons us to conflict with epithymía.4 Maccabees demands the rule of reason over impulse and numbers epithymía (arising out of sensuality) as one of the chief impulses alongside hēonḗ, phóbos, and lýpē.
4. Rabbinic equivalents are to much the same effect, e.g., in such phrases as “doing one’s desire.”

B. The Usage in the NT. The group is more common in the epistles than the Gospels. It may denote hunger (Lk. 15:16), longing (Lk. 22:15), or a desire for the divine mysteries (Mt. 13:17) or for anything good (Phil. 1:23; 1 Tim. 3:1). But it usually denotes evil desire as indicated by the object (a woman in Mt. 5:28, other things in Mk. 4:19), by the orientation (cf. Gal. 5:17), by the instrument (the heart in Rom. 1:24, the body in Rom. 6:12, the flesh in Eph. 2:3, the eyes in 1 Jn. 2:16), or by the manner (carnal in 1 Pet. 2:11, worldly in Tit. 2:12, defiling in 2 Pet. 2:10, etc.). A Jewish model for Paul’s use of the term for the tenth commandment is found in Rom. 7:7. Hence one need not postulate Stoic influence except perhaps in 1 Th. 4:5. In any case, disobedience, not irrationality, is the evil in epithymía. Desire is a manifestation of sin. Under the prohibition of the law, it discloses our carnality, our apostasy from God, and our subjection to wrath (Gal. 5:16; Rom. 1:18ff.). In James it is the root of individual sins (1:14–15), while in John it arises out of the world, constitutes its nature, and perishes with it (1 Jn. 2:15ff.). NT statements about epithymía belong to the message of repentance and self-denial. epithymía is impulse, lust, or anxious self-seeking. It shows us what we really are. Even after reception of the Spirit, it remains a danger.


Kittel, G., Friedrich, G., & Bromiley, G. W. (1995). Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (339–340). Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans.
 
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Freedom63

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In Matt. 5:28 the Greek word used is epithymeo which comes from the root thymos. Here is a study of both the combined word and the root from the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. I hope you find it helpful.

thymós (→ orgḗ). thýō denotes violent movement (of air, water, the ground, or living creatures). From the sense “to boil up” comes “to smoke” and then “to sacrifice.” thymós means what is moved or moves, i.e., vital force, and it may then denote such varied things as desire, impulse, spirit, anger, sensibility, disposition, and thought. In the NT thymós occurs five times in Paul, once in Hebrews, twice in Luke, and ten times in Revelation (five with toú theoú). The meaning is always “wrath,” human in Paul, Hebrews, and Luke but not in Rom. 2:8, divine in Revelation except in 12:12 (the dragon’s wrath). Symbols are wine and cup (from the OT), as well as vials (cf. Rev. 14:10, 19; 15:7). In Rev. 14:8; 18:3 Babylon has brought the nations into ungodliness, so that they have fallen into sin and under God’s wrath (cf. Jer. 25:15ff.). thymós is the same as wrath, and the phrase the thymós of wrath (orgē) occurs in Rev. 16:19; 19:15.

epithymía, epithyméō (→ hēdonḗ ). From where the English word hedonism is derived.
1. This group denotes desire, especially for food or sex. This desire is morally neutral at first, but philosophy, holding aloof from the sensory world, regards it as reprehensible, and in Stoicism epithymía is one of the four chief passions. Epicurus distinguishes between natural and illicit desires, subdividing the former into the purely natural and those that are necessary to happiness.
2. The OT condemns the evil will as well as the evil act, e.g., coveting. Sexual self-discipline is demanded (cf. 2 Sam. 11:2). In Judaism fasting, regulation of meats, and strict keeping of the sabbath are important. Desire is sometimes viewed as the main sin, for epithymía conflicts with supreme devotion to God.
3. Stoicism and Judaism combine in the Hellenists. The LXX has epithymía for base desire in, e.g., Num. 11:4 (though epithymeín can denote pious striving in Is 58:2). Philo summons us to conflict with epithymía.4 Maccabees demands the rule of reason over impulse and numbers epithymía (arising out of sensuality) as one of the chief impulses alongside hēonḗ, phóbos, and lýpē.
4. Rabbinic equivalents are to much the same effect, e.g., in such phrases as “doing one’s desire.”

B. The Usage in the NT. The group is more common in the epistles than the Gospels. It may denote hunger (Lk. 15:16), longing (Lk. 22:15), or a desire for the divine mysteries (Mt. 13:17) or for anything good (Phil. 1:23; 1 Tim. 3:1). But it usually denotes evil desire as indicated by the object (a woman in Mt. 5:28, other things in Mk. 4:19), by the orientation (cf. Gal. 5:17), by the instrument (the heart in Rom. 1:24, the body in Rom. 6:12, the flesh in Eph. 2:3, the eyes in 1 Jn. 2:16), or by the manner (carnal in 1 Pet. 2:11, worldly in Tit. 2:12, defiling in 2 Pet. 2:10, etc.). A Jewish model for Paul’s use of the term for the tenth commandment is found in Rom. 7:7. Hence one need not postulate Stoic influence except perhaps in 1 Th. 4:5. In any case, disobedience, not irrationality, is the evil in epithymía. Desire is a manifestation of sin. Under the prohibition of the law, it discloses our carnality, our apostasy from God, and our subjection to wrath (Gal. 5:16; Rom. 1:18ff.). In James it is the root of individual sins (1:14–15), while in John it arises out of the world, constitutes its nature, and perishes with it (1 Jn. 2:15ff.). NT statements about epithymía belong to the message of repentance and self-denial. epithymía is impulse, lust, or anxious self-seeking. It shows us what we really are. Even after reception of the Spirit, it remains a danger.


Kittel, G., Friedrich, G., & Bromiley, G. W. (1995). Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (339–340). Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans.


Thank you. This word study supports my statement very well. Sexual thought and desire is not lust (in the forbidden sense) without a willingness and/or desire for disobedience.

As for what constitutes disobedience...that has and will continue to be hotly debated. In my view, God designed us to be sexual and clearly understands that sexual thought and desire is healthy or He would not have inspired an entire book about it.
 
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Armistead14

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That up for you to decide, you will find those that think it's sin and those that don't. The bible doesn't mention it.

However, 95% of people do and the others probably lie. Even those that say it's sin still admit they do willingly sin and do it.

I am in the camp it's not sinful, but needed. I agree sexual thought and fantasy aren't sinful, but part of our genetic make up. You are asexual before puberty, sexual after puberty. It is puberty, the way God made the body that gives you automatic sexual desires. You're body is designed naturally that your privates and brain are attached, you arouse one, the other becomes aroused.,,,,you can't help it.

Many suffer under extreme guilt because of biased religious teaching to impose much guilt on people for being sexual creatures.
 
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Freedom63

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Masturbation is a grave sin regardless of the reason for it or how it is done.

Please do not pay any attention to this advice. It is nonsense and it is most certainly not biblical.
 
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hedrick

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Please do not pay any attention to this advice. It is nonsense and it is most certainly not biblical.

Be aware that there's an issue hiding here that hasn't shown up until this posting: non-procreative sex. Christian tradition has fairly widely held that sex has to be for procreation. This led to a rejection of contraception, masturbation, and various other things. Catholics rejected non-procreative sex more strongly than Protestants, but it's there in both traditions. Many, possibly most, Protestants came to accept contraception. There's been a slight tendency for conservative Protestants to change back. But Protestants are still softer on non-procreative sex. Hence many Protestants, even evangelicals, accept masturbation as long as the circumstances aren't likely to produce lust. (Yes, such circumstances are possible.) But not all. And objections can be for several reasons: (1) a disbelief that masturbation can ever be separated from lust, (2) a more general concern over non-procreative sex, including things other than just masturbation, or the following: (3) This doesn't turn up in discussions about masturbation as often here, but in the context of homosexuality, it's common to see an argument that sex is intended only for use in marriage. Depending upon whether you think this includes masturbation it could say that masturbation is permitted within marriage, but not outside it. The fact that many evangelicals consider masturbation as acceptable for single people suggest that they don't see it as the sort of sex that is restricted to marriage.

For what it's worth, I don't think the prohibition of non-procreative sex is Biblical, I think masturbation isn't always associated with lust, and I think it can be OK even outside of marriage. But my general position on sexual ethics is that Jesus is more concerned about how sex affects our relationships with others than on prohibiting a specific list of actions.
 
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brightmorningstar

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In Matt. 5:28 the Greek word used is epithymeo which comes from the root thymos. Here is a study of both the combined word and the root from the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. I hope you find it helpful.

thymós (→ orgḗ). thýō denotes violent movement (of air, water, the ground, or living creatures). From the sense “to boil up” comes “to smoke” and then “to sacrifice.” thymós means what is moved or moves, i.e., vital force, and it may then denote such varied things as desire, impulse, spirit, anger, sensibility, disposition, and thought. In the NT thymós occurs five times in Paul, once in Hebrews, twice in Luke, and ten times in Revelation (five with toú theoú). The meaning is always “wrath,” human in Paul, Hebrews, and Luke but not in Rom. 2:8, divine in Revelation except in 12:12 (the dragon’s wrath). Symbols are wine and cup (from the OT), as well as vials (cf. Rev. 14:10, 19; 15:7). In Rev. 14:8; 18:3 Babylon has brought the nations into ungodliness, so that they have fallen into sin and under God’s wrath (cf. Jer. 25:15ff.). thymós is the same as wrath, and the phrase the thymós of wrath (orgē) occurs in Rev. 16:19; 19:15.

epithymía, epithyméō (→ hēdonḗ ). From where the English word hedonism is derived.
1. This group denotes desire, especially for food or sex. This desire is morally neutral at first, but philosophy, holding aloof from the sensory world, regards it as reprehensible, and in Stoicism epithymía is one of the four chief passions. Epicurus distinguishes between natural and illicit desires, subdividing the former into the purely natural and those that are necessary to happiness.
2. The OT condemns the evil will as well as the evil act, e.g., coveting. Sexual self-discipline is demanded (cf. 2 Sam. 11:2). In Judaism fasting, regulation of meats, and strict keeping of the sabbath are important. Desire is sometimes viewed as the main sin, for epithymía conflicts with supreme devotion to God.
3. Stoicism and Judaism combine in the Hellenists. The LXX has epithymía for base desire in, e.g., Num. 11:4 (though epithymeín can denote pious striving in Is 58:2). Philo summons us to conflict with epithymía.4 Maccabees demands the rule of reason over impulse and numbers epithymía (arising out of sensuality) as one of the chief impulses alongside hēonḗ, phóbos, and lýpē.
4. Rabbinic equivalents are to much the same effect, e.g., in such phrases as “doing one’s desire.”

B. The Usage in the NT. The group is more common in the epistles than the Gospels. It may denote hunger (Lk. 15:16), longing (Lk. 22:15), or a desire for the divine mysteries (Mt. 13:17) or for anything good (Phil. 1:23; 1 Tim. 3:1). But it usually denotes evil desire as indicated by the object (a woman in Mt. 5:28, other things in Mk. 4:19), by the orientation (cf. Gal. 5:17), by the instrument (the heart in Rom. 1:24, the body in Rom. 6:12, the flesh in Eph. 2:3, the eyes in 1 Jn. 2:16), or by the manner (carnal in 1 Pet. 2:11, worldly in Tit. 2:12, defiling in 2 Pet. 2:10, etc.). A Jewish model for Paul’s use of the term for the tenth commandment is found in Rom. 7:7. Hence one need not postulate Stoic influence except perhaps in 1 Th. 4:5. In any case, disobedience, not irrationality, is the evil in epithymía. Desire is a manifestation of sin. Under the prohibition of the law, it discloses our carnality, our apostasy from God, and our subjection to wrath (Gal. 5:16; Rom. 1:18ff.). In James it is the root of individual sins (1:14–15), while in John it arises out of the world, constitutes its nature, and perishes with it (1 Jn. 2:15ff.). NT statements about epithymía belong to the message of repentance and self-denial. epithymía is impulse, lust, or anxious self-seeking. It shows us what we really are. Even after reception of the Spirit, it remains a danger.
perfect .. 100%
 
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Freedom63

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Be aware that there's an issue hiding here that hasn't shown up until this posting: non-procreative sex. Christian tradition has fairly widely held that sex has to be for procreation. This led to a rejection of contraception, masturbation, and various other things. Catholics rejected non-procreative sex more strongly than Protestants, but it's there in both traditions. Many, possibly most, Protestants came to accept contraception. There's been a slight tendency for conservative Protestants to change back. But Protestants are still softer on non-procreative sex. Hence many Protestants, even evangelicals, accept masturbation as long as the circumstances aren't likely to produce lust. (Yes, such circumstances are possible.) But not all. And objections can be for several reasons: (1) a disbelief that masturbation can ever be separated from lust, (2) a more general concern over non-procreative sex, including things other than just masturbation, or the following: (3) This doesn't turn up in discussions about masturbation as often here, but in the context of homosexuality, it's common to see an argument that sex is intended only for use in marriage. Depending upon whether you think this includes masturbation it could say that masturbation is permitted within marriage, but not outside it. The fact that many evangelicals consider masturbation as acceptable for single people suggest that they don't see it as the sort of sex that is restricted to marriage.

For what it's worth, I don't think the prohibition of non-procreative sex is Biblical, I think masturbation isn't always associated with lust, and I think it can be OK even outside of marriage. But my general position on sexual ethics is that Jesus is more concerned about how sex affects our relationships with others than on prohibiting a specific list of actions.

This would indeed be consistent with the new covenant and the law of love. Specific actions are no longer the issue.
 
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dayhiker

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Kittel indeed does a great job.
When I studied this Greek word, it was interesting to see that its the word Paul used for "Thou shall not covet."
I also remember that its the word used to describe Jesus' desire to have the last supper with the disciples and the good angels have this desire to know about what God is doing with the human race. I can't remember exactly how its worded.

So the word is used of good desires and bad. Masturbation likewise can be to good desires or bad. That's what makes is sinful or not.
 
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Armistead14

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Kittel indeed does a great job.
When I studied this Greek word, it was interesting to see that its the word Paul used for "Thou shall not covet."
I also remember that its the word used to describe Jesus' desire to have the last supper with the disciples and the good angels have this desire to know about what God is doing with the human race. I can't remember exactly how its worded.

So the word is used of good desires and bad. Masturbation likewise can be to good desires or bad. That's what makes is sinful or not.

Funny, people say MB is sin, many have no problems with wet dreams, many claim God gives us those so we don't have to MB ourselves, but we know wet dreams are so sexually explicit one can [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] by thought along without touching.......

MB can and will never be sin, it's a formed natural habit starting at age two, puberty brings sexuality into it...it's the way our bodies and brain were made, some just don't like the way God made them, they would rather live in guilt...
 
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brightmorningstar

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it's the way our bodies and brain were made, some just don't like the way God made them, they would rather live in guilt...
Except that they dont live in guilt but some frequently claim they do.. out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.
This is the heart of faith in Christ for the believer, if a believer falls short and sins they repent and receive forgiveness through faith in the blood of Christ.

They are frequently assumed to be guilty and in bondage by those who do not see sin or see passages that clobber them.
 
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Freedom63

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Funny, people say MB is sin, many have no problems with wet dreams, many claim God gives us those so we don't have to MB ourselves, but we know wet dreams are so sexually explicit one can [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] by thought along without touching.......

MB can and will never be sin, it's a formed natural habit starting at age two, puberty brings sexuality into it...it's the way our bodies and brain were made, some just don't like the way God made them, they would rather live in guilt...

Yes it is the way our bodies are made...AND designed. This by the God who declared the way He created us to be good. I have never understood the desire of so many to help God out and fill in where they think He just messed up. LOL
 
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