Is It A Sin to touch?

[Manso]

Personally, not being rude, but I find the logic about masturbation being different from sex bogus. You say there is no proof that it isnt a sin..and I say there isnt any proof that it is. So as Ive said before..this kind of argument gets old.

outside of saying "i think it's bogus", show me the flaw in my logic <no, this is not sarcasm, i enjoy debates>

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

outside of saying "i think it's bogus", show me the flaw in my logic <no, this is not sarcasm, i enjoy debates>

I am with Whiper_d. on this one and the point of this tread is to help answer someones questions the right way with the right answer not debating there is another forum for that I think we should be trying to find the answers.Saying out of Love my OP it just this person Manso if anyone has a comment I adk that you pm me unless it's Manso.

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

so said anything about lust? if i never met a woman/(another person for that matter) before and never knew about sex i would still get the urge to release. if i grew up on an island all alone, i would eventually start to touch, how can there be lust in such a situation, lust and touching yourself/sexual tension are completely seperate, but *usually* go hand in hand.

no, i was not offended, i just feel strongly about this discussion, and the only examples of touching yourself being bad are usually based on opinion and no logic/facts to back it up. i will gladly except any evidence other than, "i feel it in my heart" / "touching yourself is sex" / etc... i want "here is the scripture" / "this research shows" ..... i'm sorry if i come on strong, but i'm sure you've seen some of those replies earlier in the thread, "IT IS A SIN!" type stuff, makes me a bit touchy.. <time for a chill pill for me> breath... breath...

Actually I didn't see any it's a sin type things . I found this( 1Tim 5:6)Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
touching yourself is self-gratification at it's core. You can say that you don't have to lust to do it, but it is still self-gratification.
me touching yourself is a sin, All sexual activity should be done in legal, GOD recognized marriage, the bible never speaks of it being sanctioned by GOD otherwise.

To me all touching yourself is lustful, men and woman do it when we can't fulfill the sensual needs or desires they are having in their bodies and their minds.
There are several verses like this, and we already established that touching yourself with lust is sin because lust is a sin.


The Bible tells us to avoid even the appearance of sexual immorality (Ephesians 5:3).

good test for whether something is a sin or not is whether you would be proud to tell others what you had just done. If it is something you would be embarrassed or ashamed about if others found out, it is very likely that it is a sin.

Another good test is to determine whether we can honestly, in good conscience, ask God to bless and use the particular activity for His own good purposes. I do not think masturbation qualifies as something we can be "proud" of or can genuinely thank God for.

The Bible never specifically mentions masturbation or states whether masturbation is a sin or not. The fact that the Bible lacks mention of masturbation does not necessarily make it right. I found this from here http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_277840/mpage_4/tm.htm

 

[GraceAnneWinter]

In the book Not Even A Hint by Joshua Harris, he says this about masturbation:

"Because Scriptures doesn't specifically name the act of masturbation, a heated debate has erupted among Christians, and there is an endless array of opinions on the issue...God's Word does address the issue and gives us everything we need to deal with it...I think Christians make too big a deal of masturbation in that we obsess over the act and neglect the more important issues of the heart. No question, God is concerned with our actions, but He's even more interested in our motivations...When I say we shouldn't make a big deal of masturbation, I'm saying we shouldn't make it the primary barometer of our spiritual lives. Lust is a serious sin. Masturbation is one expression of a lustful heart...The reason this very private act matters to God is not because it involves our genitals, but because it involves our hearts. And God is passionately committed to our hearts belonging completely to Him (see Deuteronomy 6:5). Masturbation isn't a filthy habit that makes people dirty. It only reveals the dirt that's already in our hearts. It's an indicator that we're feeding the wrong desires...Now you might be thinking, What are you talking about my heart for? This is about my sex drive and is purely biological. Don't even little kids do this before they are old enough to lust? Hear me out. I'm not ignoring the biological realities involved with this issue...A guy's body produces sperm that at some point has to be released...So in a sense, masturbation is natural. But does natural mean good? As Christians we have to be careful about assuming that something that comes naturally to humans is morally insignificant. We live in a fallen world. Every part of this planet and our humanity has been marred by sin...Because of sin, even if masturbation starts out innocently in a child, it inevitably begins to involve lustful desires and fantasy. For most people the act is impossible to separate from lust in the heart--whether this involves inappropriate contentography or not...I know there are Christians who claim they can mastubate without lusting. They say they think nonsexual thoughts and do it merely for release. It's not my place to judge the hearts of these people. I can only speak from my own experience when I say that I highly doubt this is possible. What I've seen is that lust was always present in a significant way either leading up to or during the act...Even if it were possible to touch without lust, I think a lifestyle of masturbation is based on a wrong understanding of God's plan for sex. Masturbation is built on a self-centered view of sex.This wrong attitude says that sex is based solely on you and your pleasure...This is the natural tendency of sin. It isolates us from others and makes pleasure self-focused."

 

[Doer]

In the book Not Even A Hint by Joshua Harris, he says this about masturbation:

"Because Scriptures doesn't specifically name the act of masturbation, a heated debate has erupted among Christians, and there is an endless array of opinions on the issue...God's Word does address the issue and gives us everything we need to deal with it...I think Christians make too big a deal of masturbation in that we obsess over the act and neglect the more important issues of the heart. No question, God is concerned with our actions, but He's even more interested in our motivations...When I say we shouldn't make a big deal of masturbation, I'm saying we shouldn't make it the primary barometer of our spiritual lives. Lust is a serious sin. Masturbation is one expression of a lustful heart...The reason this very private act matters to God is not because it involves our genitals, but because it involves our hearts. And God is passionately committed to our hearts belonging completely to Him (see Deuteronomy 6:5). Masturbation isn't a filthy habit that makes people dirty. It only reveals the dirt that's already in our hearts. It's an indicator that we're feeding the wrong desires...Now you might be thinking, What are you talking about my heart for? This is about my sex drive and is purely biological. Don't even little kids do this before they are old enough to lust? Hear me out. I'm not ignoring the biological realities involved with this issue...A guy's body produces sperm that at some point has to be released...So in a sense, masturbation is natural. But does natural mean good? As Christians we have to be careful about assuming that something that comes naturally to humans is morally insignificant. We live in a fallen world. Every part of this planet and our humanity has been marred by sin...Because of sin, even if masturbation starts out innocently in a child, it inevitably begins to involve lustful desires and fantasy. For most people the act is impossible to separate from lust in the heart--whether this involves inappropriate contentography or not...I know there are Christians who claim they can mastubate without lusting. They say they think nonsexual thoughts and do it merely for release. It's not my place to judge the hearts of these people. I can only speak from my own experience when I say that I highly doubt this is possible. What I've seen is that lust was always present in a significant way either leading up to or during the act...Even if it were possible to touch without lust, I think a lifestyle of masturbation is based on a wrong understanding of God's plan for sex. Masturbation is built on a self-centered view of sex.This wrong attitude says that sex is based solely on you and your pleasure...This is the natural tendency of sin. It isolates us from others and makes pleasure self-focused."

Im glad you dont judge people, thats very important. As hard as it may seem, some people say they can do it without those sexual thoughts. I, however, cant see it possible. From this thread, it reminded me that lust is a sin, and I do lust when I do it. Therefore, I have not done it for 6, count it 6 days, which is very hard for me. I have caught myself lusting more after girls, sexual thoughts, etc... but I think it will get better the more I can hold off. I put it this way, although i'm sinnin gmore trying to stop, in the long run, I will be free (or pretty close) to free of lust. Trust me though, it gets easier and easier the longer you can hold off.

 

[Greyshade89]

outside of saying "i think it's bogus", show me the flaw in my logic <no, this is not sarcasm, i enjoy debates>

I think all of us trying to debate something we cant answer is bogus. You have no actual proof of God giving the ok for it. Just because its good for your health has nothing to do with sin. I cant verify my response about masturbation either, and the fact that you want to debate about masturbation with a 16 year old girl is a little silly. ..Ive already said my opinion. So I'll be leaving.

 

[2to3timesAweek]

To be honest, I haven't read all of this forum so if my thoughts have already been said, I appologize. As my screen name sort of indicates I am wondering about touching yourself. I have a couple of thoughts/questions I want cleared up and if you answer, please say whether if it's your opinion or not and if not back it up.

1. touching yourself in and of itself is not a sin but since it really can't be
separated from imagination there is a problem. I heard that imagining your
future spouse is ok or something of that sort but what does that mean? Not
to put a head on the body you're imagining? What would be the
proper thing to think about (given that touching yourself is not condemned in the
bible)? I'm at the point of thinking that touching yourself will happen no matter
how much you fight it. It's how we're wired.
2. Lust is obviously condemned but I would like to split hairs. Is there a
reference in the bible reguarding lust that can't be tied to a situation
reguarding marriage? My thoughts here are that since lusting after a woman
means you've already commited adultery with her, and since adultery can't
take place without one or more of the persons involved being married, is
desiring the body of a another single (female in my case being a guy) wrong?
Initialy one would think yes, but like I said, I'm splitting hairs.

 

[flyingsum0]

Well I've tried in the past and still cant come up with a good defense for mastrbation...

A sin is a sin and sin is wrong no matter how great or small...but like any additction, the first step to recovery is acknowledging that there is a problem,,,

No one is alone in this fight all we can do is pray to the Lord for strength...

Bless you all

 

[LittlePinky82]

I agree. If it's something that is going to be a problem for the individual person than you can choose to not to. I just think it should be a personal choice.

The Bible does not mention masturbation anywhere. It's a gray area which means it is a matter of personal conscience. The verse about Onan is not referring to masturbation but to the withdrawal method of birth control.

 

[LittlePinky82]

With gay marriage that has to do with the law. Not your personal belief system. The government shouldn't be favorable to one group of people. The church doesn't have to have anything to do with it but the government should still allow it. Simply not having gay marriage because of a religious belief system is wrong. So what if the wiccans said stealing should be legal (I'm sure they wouldn't but this is just an example so bare with me). They have a crede that says: "Do as ye will be harm no one." So should stealing be made legal? Of course not. My beliefs are for my PERSONAL life just like someone else's of another faith. How would you like it if you were a minority? Would you like that? Don't like gay marriage? DOn't do it! But don't keep someone else from doing it. You're not God are you? So who made you judge? Same thing with touching yourself. Each person can only judge themselves.

although, a line has to be drawn somewhere, the "disagree with not marrying legally"
1. if the government "ok"s gay marriage, should you accept it because the Bible says to submit to the current authority

by not agreeing with that, you denouce that the government has the power to spirually marry two people. i guess what i getting at, is the laws of man can change, but God never changes, so the law of man is the current government, but i guess even the government doesn't have anything against my non-legal marriage, so what am i breaking? i just don't want to get legally married before i have a job with benefits. legal marriage is a peice of paper, spiritual marriage is forever. it's possible to be legally marriage and not spiritually marrried, same back the other way, which is more important?
****is is so off subject, sorry ppl, last post of this topic "the marriage thing">

 

[SH89]

With gay marriage that has to do with the law. Not your personal belief system. The government shouldn't be favorable to one group of people. The church doesn't have to have anything to do with it but the government should still allow it. Simply not having gay marriage because of a religious belief system is wrong. So what if the wiccans said stealing should be legal (I'm sure they wouldn't but this is just an example so bare with me). They have a crede that says: "Do as ye will be harm no one." So should stealing be made legal? Of course not. My beliefs are for my PERSONAL life just like someone else's of another faith. How would you like it if you were a minority? Would you like that? Don't like gay marriage? DOn't do it! But don't keep someone else from doing it. You're not God are you? So who made you judge? Same thing with touching yourself. Each person can only judge themselves.

I believe that the government should stick out of the personal life of its citizens, however, gay marriage is a big issue. A gay couple has ever right to stay together(under the law of the US), but marriage is something that should be uplifted. The church is symbolically married to Christ. Also, accepting gay marriage can result in a fall(morally) in the United States.
For example:
The government has no right to say that marrying an animal is wrong-it is the personal opinion of citizens that feel that marrying an animal is wrong. The government has no right to say that marrying a family member is wrong-why should it be wrong? It is your personal belief that marrying a family member is wrong.

We should set the standard somewhere(in marriage) between a men and a women. If e do not, then there shouldn't be anything legally wrong with marrying an animal or a family member.

 

[holo]

With gay marriage that has to do with the law. Not your personal belief system. The government shouldn't be favorable to one group of people. The church doesn't have to have anything to do with it but the government should still allow it. Simply not having gay marriage because of a religious belief system is wrong. So what if the wiccans said stealing should be legal (I'm sure they wouldn't but this is just an example so bare with me). They have a crede that says: "Do as ye will be harm no one." So should stealing be made legal? Of course not. My beliefs are for my PERSONAL life just like someone else's of another faith. How would you like it if you were a minority? Would you like that? Don't like gay marriage? DOn't do it! But don't keep someone else from doing it. You're not God are you? So who made you judge? Same thing with touching yourself. Each person can only judge themselves.

That was refreshing, esp. coming from an american christian (and I mean no offense to americans, I just often find them to be a little too morally-minded about other people's business).

 

[LittlePinky82]

Oh give me a freakin break. How dare you compare two humans together to animals! Wrong and disgusting of you and quite flamable! Why should I be more important to my government because I'm white, straight and a Christian? Answer that one.

I believe that the government should stick out of the personal life of its citizens, however, gay marriage is a big issue. A gay couple has ever right to stay together(under the law of the US), but marriage is something that should be uplifted. The church is symbolically married to Christ. Also, accepting gay marriage can result in a fall(morally) in the United States.
For example:
The government has no right to say that marrying an animal is wrong-it is the personal opinion of citizens that feel that marrying an animal is wrong. The government has no right to say that marrying a family member is wrong-why should it be wrong? It is your personal belief that marrying a family member is wrong.

We should set the standard somewhere(in marriage) between a men and a women. If e do not, then there shouldn't be anything legally wrong with marrying an animal or a family member.

 

[LittlePinky82]

Well hey I am a very very very very left leaning liberal. The government is no place to promote a religion which is also against our laws in this country. The fundies of the country have no right in what they are doing. And if you think the country will "go down hill" good grief. That's simply ridiculous. And the same things that are being said about gay marriage was said about interracial marriage. What someone does in the privacy of their own home means nothing with how the country is run. If the law is going to interfer itself with marriage it should be equal or none at all. Gay people want the same rights that straight couples have which is to take care of their families and be treated equally. The Bible says slavery is okay, so should we bring that back?

That was refreshing, esp. coming from an american christian (and I mean no offense to americans, I just often find them to be a little too morally-minded about other people's business).

 

[winglovesall]

Well, speaking of gay marriage , there's been a growing tension in Hong Kong at the moment about whether gay marriage is acceptable or not -

As our leader is a Christian leader, he says No. However, because Hong Kong is a democratic and free society - some people say that it violates Human Rights conditions.

God created Adam. But God also created Eve as well - to be a partner - and so, God doesn't like gay marriages.

 

[LittlePinky82]

But that is your belief. Not everybody believes that. We here in the States have the first amendment which states freedom of religion and from religion. "Congress shall make no laws regarding an establishment of religion" and simply claiming you are against gay marriage because of a religious belief system in my opinion goes against the first amendment. Same thing that happened with blacks and whites marrying.

Well, speaking of gay marriage , there's been a growing tension in Hong Kong at the moment about whether gay marriage is acceptable or not -

As our leader is a Christian leader, he says No. However, because Hong Kong is a democratic and free society - some people say that it violates Human Rights conditions.

God created Adam. But God also created Eve as well - to be a partner - and so, God doesn't like gay marriages.

 

[winglovesall]

And yes - it has been the issue along with democratic protests in Hong Kong at the moment -

And I agree - people should have the will to believe because of God's free will in the beginning.

 

[LittlePinky82]

Oh and you totally did a flipflop. One minute you say that government should stick out of the personal life of it its citizen's except for gay marriage. Oh brother. Jesus never talked about gay people and He's Lord so if he thought it was so important he would've talked about it and the church people would've made sure that was in the Bible we know today but it's no where there. Instead Jesus did talk about divorce and adultery but of course I guess that isn't so important anymore is it?

I believe that the government should stick out of the personal life of its citizens, however, gay marriage is a big issue. A gay couple has ever right to stay together(under the law of the US), but marriage is something that should be uplifted. The church is symbolically married to Christ. Also, accepting gay marriage can result in a fall(morally) in the United States.
For example:
The government has no right to say that marrying an animal is wrong-it is the personal opinion of citizens that feel that marrying an animal is wrong. The government has no right to say that marrying a family member is wrong-why should it be wrong? It is your personal belief that marrying a family member is wrong.

We should set the standard somewhere(in marriage) between a men and a women. If e do not, then there shouldn't be anything legally wrong with marrying an animal or a family member.

 

[winglovesall]

SH89 - I agree with LittlePinky82 said -

 

[LittlePinky82]

Exactly! God blessed us all with freewill. The choices to make in what to believe whether in Him or something else. God loves us that much! So shouldn't we love other people and allow them to make their own choices and consequences where it concerns such issues like that on who to live with and love? Love isn't a choice in my lifes experience. Leave the judging to God. Jesus didn't come to earth to judge so why should we?

And yes - it has been the issue along with democratic protests in Hong Kong at the moment -

And I agree - people should have the will to believe because of God's free will in the beginning.