Is Mary the Mother of the Church or of all Christians?

[GingerBeer]

I get my theology from scripture itself, not my mind or my desires..

Great, so do I, so you must be in agreement with me, right?

 

[Not David]

So what are the spiritual consequences for Christians who choose to not venerate Mary or recognize her perpetual virginity?

Probably none, however it is ahistorical and denigrates an excellent woman.

 

[Not David]

No and I do not profess the Nicene Creed

Blade

What do you mean you don't "profess the Nicene Creed"

 

[GingerBeer]

Actually what you are saying is that Mary is the Mother of the Body of Christ. Interesting but not scriptural. This leads to the divinity of Mary.
Blessings

Mary gave birth to something and surely it was - among other things - the body of Jesus Christ. So it is scriptural. But you carry on with your theology.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'm not making stuff up, that's what early Christians believed in.

No, it's not... it was in 431 that she was declared mother of God and not until 1962 that she was declared mother of tthe church..

Do you consider 1962 the "early Christians age"? And 400 years after the death of Christ is hardly the belief of the first Christians..

 

[Not David]

Wow...

You just made a human being more powerful than God in that one paragraph. ..

Congratulations ...

Can we get back to a sovereign God now who can chose who HE pleases for His Will?

God didn't forced Mary to have Jesus, Mary did it out of free will.

 

[Not David]

Christianity would not exist without the Messiah. It could have existed just fine without Mary. God could have used a different woman, a heathen, even. He could have used no one, or birthed Christ from a rock, if necessary.

Wow, what a way to disrespect the Mother of God.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Wow, what a way to disrespect the Mother of God.

God has no mother. He is Creator, not created.

 

[GingerBeer]

I hope that was intended as a joke. It follows the same logic as this:

1. Mary is the mother of Christ.
2. The church is the bride of Christ.
3. The church is the body of Christ.
4. Therefore Christ married himself.
5. Therefore Mary is our mother-in-law (yuck).
6. God is love.
7. Love is blind.
8. Therefore God is blind.
9. We might conclude that Christ's accidental marriage to himself had something to do with his blindness.

Mary was the literal mother of Christ. Christ is the figurative head of the church (which is his figurative body, naturally). This statement doesn't make her the figurative or literal mother of anyone but Christ (lest we be guilty of abusing an analogy). Otherwise, we should be venerating Heli, the Grandfather of all Christianity, which no one has suggested.

Friends don't let friends abuse logic.

It isn't the same reasoning, but you've hit pay dirt I think. The truth is that the church is both the body of Christ and the bride of Christ so no matter what logic is used the idea in scripture is that Christ's marries his own body. Does that shock you?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I don’t think you’ve proved your case.

I never let my theology corrupt scripture. My theology is built upon scripture.

Also show me there were 190 of them or whatever your exact number was.

Acts 1;15;
15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty)

I don't really mean to be unkind to you in my challenges; it just surprises me that the two verse I found for you were so difficult for you to find for yourself.

 

[Not David]

No, it's not... it was in 431 that she was declared mother of God and not until 1962 that she was declared mother of tthe church..

Do you consider 1962 the "early Christians age"? And 400 years after the death of Christ is hardly the belief of the first Christians..

That's around the time the Bible was put together, yet you believe in Sola Scriptura.

 

[Not David]

God has no mother. He is Creator, not created.

So what was Jesus?

 

[Hazelelponi]

So what was Jesus?

The Creator of Mary..as well as her Lord, and Savior - the Messiah.

 

[Not David]

The Creator of Mary..as well as her Lord, and Savior - the Messiah.

As well as her son and God.

 

[Hazelelponi]

As well as her son and God.

She bows to Him. He will never bow down to her.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Regardless if you believe the Catholic or the Orthodox Church is the truth Church, is the Virgin Mary the Mother of all who profess the Nicene Creed, even if they don't venerate her?

I'd say so. If one worships God and obeys the Gospel of Christ, Scripture says she is their Mother, even if they don't turn to her, ask for her help, praise her, or see her the way we do. "Mary, Help of Christians" is one of my favorite titles for her. Certainly, she deserves our thoughts, consideration, awe, gratitude, love, and respect.

 

[Barney2.0]

If Jesus is a king and father to Christians then Mary is obviously the queen, as mothers were usually queens if their sons were kings in the Bible, like Queen Bathsheba and King Solomon. The Church is the body of believers and the bride of Christ, Mary the queen mother of heaven however is the mother of Christians by virtue of her son being father of Christians.

 

[Barney2.0]

No, it's not... it was in 431 that she was declared mother of God and not until 1962 that she was declared mother of tthe church..

Do you consider 1962 the "early Christians age"? And 400 years after the death of Christ is hardly the belief of the first Christians..

Hippolytus

"[T]o all generations they [the prophets] have pictured forth the grandest subjects for contemplation and for action. Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in the flesh to the world, his advent by the spotless and God-bearing (theotokos) Mary in the way of birth and growth, and the manner of his life and conversation with men, and his manifestation by baptism, and the new birth that was to be to all men, and the regeneration by the laver [of baptism]" (Discourse on the End of the World 1 [A.D. 217]).



Gregory the Wonderworker

"For Luke, in the inspired Gospel narratives, delivers a testimony not to Joseph only, but also to Mary, the Mother of God, and gives this account with reference to the very family and house of David" (Four Homilies 1 [A.D. 262]).

"It is our duty to present to God, like sacrifices, all the festivals and hymnal celebrations; and first of all, [the feast of] the Annunciation to the holy Mother of God, to wit, the salutation made to her by the angel, ‘Hail, full of grace!’" (ibid., 2).

 

[anna ~ grace]

Way to go, Al-Masihi!

 

[Not David]

If Jesus is a king and father to Christians then Mary is obviously the queen, as mothers were usually queens if their sons were kings in the Bible, like Queen Bathsheba and King Solomon. The Church is the body of believers and the bride of Christ, Mary the queen mother of heaven however is the mother of Christians by virtue of her son being father of Christians.

As a former Muslim, how do you feel about how you thought about Mary before and after your conversion?