Is Mary God?

[PeaceB]

Not that Luther got everything right, but he hardly had a "hissy fit."

Also, you make the mistake of assuming I have only studied "anti-Catholic" history and literature, I have not. Most of what I object to has come from Catholic sources and also my own attendance at quite a number of Catholic Masses.

I guess it's just easier to accuse someone of ignorance Simply because they disagree. After all, no one who truly understands Catholicism could possibly disagree with it, right?

And yet, many have, and, in times past, they even died for their disagreement.

As I said, I continue to study, but I have found no reason to agree with the core tenants of Catholicism in all the years I've learned about it so far.

You remain welcome to repent of your errors and enter the Catholic Church at any time.

 

[PeaceB]

I am not about to come under the spiritual authority of any man or woman, no matter who they may be.

Otherwise known as pride.

 

[amariselle]

Otherwise known as pride.

Right. Sorry. Rejecting the authority of the Pope and the Papacy does not equal pride. But by all means, just continue with the insults.

 

[amariselle]

You remain welcome to repent of your errors and enter the Catholic Church at any time.

Thanks for the offer, I think I've made it clear why I will not.

You haven't given me any reason to reconsider either.

In any case, we really should not dialogue any further. I've tried to be patient and respectful, but I'm tired of the insults and the refusal to address Scripture when it's provided.

I may start my own thread on some of these topics in the future, inviting those who truly do want to address Scripture.

God bless.

 

[amariselle]

If you had studied Catholicism , you would not trot out the easily refuted myths... like raising the hyperbole " call no man father" as if it had any relevance to the veracity of Catholicism. I find it hard to take anyone seriously who uses such specious criticism.

If you have been to masses you will know that there is far more scripture in the mass by far , than any bible bashing denomination. It is wall to wall scriptural reference. And if you studied the early church and early Eucharist you would note the similarity even in liturgy. And certainly it holds in the same reverence the real presence of our Lord in the sacrament, just as we note in the very first writings of disciples of the apostles, taught by them. So how do you claim it has strayed?

I and others have made it perfectly clear why we believe it has strayed, from Scripture. Those verses have gone completely ignored and/or dismissed in favour of character/intellectual insults.

You are free to assume I haven't researched or been to Mass, but you would be wrong.

I'm moving on now.

God bless and have a great evening.

 

[PeaceB]

I and others have made it perfectly clear why we believe it has strayed, from Scripture. Those verses have gone completely ignored and/or dismissed in favour of character/intellectual insults.

You are free to assume I haven't researched or been to Mass, but you would be wrong.

I'm moving on now.

God bless and have a great evening.

Nothing was ignored. We read the Scriptures you cited. We rejected your interpretations of the Scripture. Just as you read the Scriptures that we cited, and rejected our interpretations.

Again, none of the Scripture verses you cited states that we may not kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray. That is simply your interpretation of the Scripture, which we reject. When we provided you Scripture for Catholic doctrine, you did exactly the same thing. You rejected our interpretation of the Scripture.

You still have not provided one single Scripture verse that teaches your man made tradition that you put above the word of God.

 

[PeaceB]

Thanks for the offer, I think I've made it clear why I will not.

You haven't given me any reason to reconsider either.

In any case, we really should not dialogue any further. I've tried to be patient and respectful, but I'm tired of the insults and the refusal to address Scripture when it's provided.

I may start my own thread on some of these topics in the future, inviting those who truly do want to address Scripture.

God bless.

Your definition of "dialogue" appears to be "automatically reject and dismiss any and all interpretations of Scripture given by Catholics, and demand that they show me verbatim language in Scripture that is identical to their faith and practice. When they cannot, call them idolators. And then get upset when they automatically reject my interpretations of Scripture."

God bless.

 

[PeaceB]

Right. Sorry. Rejecting the authority of the Pope and the Papacy does not equal pride. But by all means, just continue with the insults.

No, you rejected the spiritual authority of any man or woman. Therefore you are limited by nothing other than your private interpretation of Scripture.

 

[amariselle]

No, you rejected the spiritual authority of any man or woman. Therefore you are limited by nothing other than your private interpretation of Scripture.

Actually, if you had bothered to read my entire post, instead of once again taking things out of context, you would see exactly what I meant.

Again, quoting random bits of someone's posts just to prove a point is hardly honest.

As for reading the Bible and understanding it personally? Yes, I believe that is an ability every Christian has because of the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And I wish that every Christian would read the Bible for themselves, rather than just believing what someone else says about it, (including their church).

 

[Durantis]

Nothing was ignored. We read the Scriptures you cited. We rejected your interpretations of the Scripture. Just as you read the Scriptures that we cited, and rejected our interpretations.

Again, none of the Scripture verses you cited states that we may not kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray. That is simply your interpretation of the Scripture, which we reject. When we provided you Scripture for Catholic doctrine, you did exactly the same thing. You rejected our interpretation of the Scripture.

You still have not provided one single Scripture verse that teaches your man made tradition that you put above the word of God.

Lev. 26:1, "You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."

Deut. 4:15, "So watch yourselves carefully, since you did not see any form on the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire, 16 lest you act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female,"

The Bible does not need an interpretation. Its words are as clear as water. Kneeling in front of a Mary statue (or any statue) is wrong according to the Holy Bible. The Catholic Cathechism is not the word of God, it is a man-made interpretation of the Scriptures. You're rejecting what the Bible says because maybe you refuse to let Christ into your heart. Your judgement has been clouded by Romanism and its "holy tradition." You have been deceived by the lies of a church that says it's the only way to God. But remember that:

John 14:6
Jesus said unto him, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

 

[amariselle]

Nothing was ignored. We read the Scriptures you cited. We rejected your interpretations of the Scripture. Just as you read the Scriptures that we cited, and rejected our interpretations.

Again, none of the Scripture verses you cited states that we may not kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray. That is simply your interpretation of the Scripture, which we reject. When we provided you Scripture for Catholic doctrine, you did exactly the same thing. You rejected our interpretation of the Scripture.

You still have not provided one single Scripture verse that teaches your man made tradition that you put above the word of God.

No Scripture supporting Catholic veneration of Mary was ever given.

I think anyone who is honest with themselves will know that the reason for this is because none exists.

I gave no "man-made tradition. I and others here have shared Scripture verses with you and other Catholics repeatedly, they have been ignored. (The verses in Exodus and Deuteronomy for example, that probit making graven images in the likeness of anything, which includes Mary)

As I said. Feel free to reject Scripture in order to continue praying before an image of another human being who has been gone from this life for the past 2,000 years. This practice is not supported by Scripture.

 

[amariselle]

Your definition of "dialogue" appears to be "automatically reject and dismiss any and all interpretations of Scripture given by Catholics, and demand that they show you verbatim language in Scripture that is identical to their faith and practice. When they cannot, call them idolators. And then get upset when they automatically reject my interpretations of Scripture."

God bless.

What the Bible calls idolatry I accept as idolatry. I did not write the Bible, but I do believe what it says. I'm sorry you have a problem with that.

 

[PeaceB]

Actually, if you had bothered to read my entire post, instead of once again taking things out of context, you would see exactly what I meant.

Again, quoting random bits of someone's posts just to prove a point is hardly honest.

You mean like when you scoured the internet to try to find pictures, videos, and other things to attempt to falsely demonstrate that Catholics worship Mary? Please stop with the babe in the woods routine. You are only fooling yourself.

As for reading the Bible and understanding it personally? Yes, I believe that is an ability every Christian has because of the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And I wish that every Christian would read the Bible for themselves, rather than just believing what someone else says about it, (including their church).

The Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion, and that is exactly what exists where you are at.

 

[amariselle]

Lev. 26:1, "You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."

Deut. 4:15, "So watch yourselves carefully, since you did not see any form on the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire, 16 lest you act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female,"

The Bible does not need an interpretation. Its words are as clear as water. Kneeling in front of a Mary statue (or any statue) is wrong according to the Holy Bible. The Catholic Cathechism is not the word of God, it is a man-made interpretation of the Scriptures. You're rejecting what the Bible says because maybe you refuse to let Christ into your heart. Your judgement has been clouded by Romanism and its "holy tradition." You have been deceived by the lies of a church that says it's the only way to God. But remember that:

John 14:6
Jesus said unto him, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

Exactly, the Bible is clear. No graven image should be made "in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female."

That definitely includes Mary.

 

[amariselle]

You mean like when you scoured the internet to try to find pictures, videos, and other things to attempt to falsely demonstrate that Catholics worship Mary? Please stop with the babe in the woods routine. You are only fooling yourself.

Oh, I am not fooled. I know exactly what the Bible says regarding the issues we've been discussing. You can be sure of that. And I'm not about to be intimidated or discouraged by you or anyone else, no matter how many thinly veiled insults you toss my way.

The Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion, and that is exactly what exists where you are at.

I am far from confused, I assure you.

Have a great night PeaceB.

 

[Durantis]

You mean like when you scoured the internet to try to find pictures, videos, and other things to attempt to falsely demonstrate that Catholics worship Mary? Please stop with the babe in the woods routine. You are only fooling yourself.


The Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion, and that is exactly what exists where you are at.

Many Catholics worship Mary. I've seen that many times before. They say that she will grant you "any wish" if you ask her. Many bow to her statues, kiss her pictures and talk about her as if she were Jesus himself. Many catholics say that she's the MOTHER OF GOD and the QUEEN OF HEAVEN. They will light candles and offer flowers to her. They pray the Rosary as it were a magical tool in order to get whatever they want to. If that is not worship I don't know what it is. Veneration? Yes, sure. Maybe according to your man-made beliefs. But not according to the Bible, never.

I believe that if Mary had not existed, God would've chosen another woman. I'm not trying to belittle what Mary did. But she will never be at the same level as Jesus/God. She did her job and that's why she has been saved. That's all there is to it. She is mentioned in the Bible a few times and it doesn't say that we must pray to her, or that she's all the things that the Catholic Church says she is. Many Catholics are being deceived by a power that thinks itself greater than God. I hope Jesus has mercy upon you.

 

[PeaceB]

Lev. 26:1, "You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."

Deut. 4:15, "So watch yourselves carefully, since you did not see any form on the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire, 16 lest you act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female,"

Amen brother.

The Bible does not need an interpretation. Its words are as clear as water. Kneeling in front of a Mary statue (or any statue) is wrong according to the Holy Bible.

No. The Bible does not state that "Kneeling in front of a Mary statue (or any statue) is wrong". You wrote that. Scripture does not state that. You add to the word of God and put your man made tradition above the word of God.

The Catholic Cathechism is not the word of God, it is a man-made interpretation of the Scriptures.

The Catechism is not the word of God. I am glad that you are smart enough to realize that, as does the average 5 year old.

You're rejecting what the Bible says because maybe you refuse to let Christ into your heart. Your judgement has been clouded by Romanism and its "holy tradition." You have been deceived by the lies of a church that says it's the only way to God.

No. I accept the word of God. I reject your man made interpretation of Scripture.

Jesus said unto him, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.

Amen!

No Scripture supporting Catholic veneration of Mary was ever given.

No. We gave you Scripture. You rejected our interpretation of the Scripture, just as we reject your interpretation of Scripture. How many times do we really need to go through this before you get it?

I think anyone who is honest with themselves will know that the reason for this is because none exists.

What you think is irrelevant. It means nothing.

I gave no "man-made tradition. I and others here have shared Scripture verses with you and other Catholics repeatedly, they have been ignored. (The verses in Exodus and Deuteronomy for example, that probit making graven images in the likeness of anything, which includes Mary)

No. We read the Scriptures you cited. We reject your interpretations of the Scriptures. None of the verses you cited state that we may not kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray. That is your interpretation of the Scripture, but that is not what the Scripture states. You are adding your man made interpretations to the word of God.

As I said. Feel free to reject Scripture in order to continue praying before an image of another human being who has been gone from this life for the past 2,000 years. This practice is not supported by Scripture.

I accept Scripture. I reject your man made interpretation of Scripture. Scripture does not state that we may not kneel in front of statute of Mary to pray. That is your interpretation of what Scripture says, but Scripture itself does not state that. You are equating your man made interpretations of Scripture with Scripture itself. You are putting your own interpretations of Scripture on the same level as Scripture. And you have the audacity to complain when we point out you as being prideful.

What the Bible calls idolatry I accept as idolatry. I did not write the Bible, but I do believe what it says. I'm sorry you have a problem with that.

You did not write the Bible, but you attempt to put your private, man-made interpretations of Scripture on the same level as the word of God. Yes, I do have a problem with that, and I reject your interpretations of Scripture.

Oh, I am not fooled. I know exactly what the Bible says regarding the issues we've been discussing. You can be sure of that. And I'm not about to be intimidated or discouraged by you or anyone else, no matter how many thinly veiled insults you toss my way.

I have no intention of intimidating you in any way. I love you, my sister in Christ. I am merely pointing out your errors.

And you have levied the most egregious and outlandish insults in this entire thread, by attempting to elevate your private interpretations of Scripture to the same level as the word of God, and accusing us of idolatry based on your private interpretations. It is a shameful thing that you have done. You may repent of your errors at anytime, for the Lord loves you and is always willing to forgive you.

I am far from confused, I assure you.

Have a great night PeaceB.

I hope that you have a great weekend, my sister in Christ.

Many Catholics worship Mary. I've seen that many times before. They say that she will grant you "any wish" if you ask her. Many bow to her statues, kiss her pictures and talk about her as if she were Jesus himself. Many catholics say that she's the MOTHER OF GOD and the QUEEN OF HEAVEN. They will light candles and offer flowers to her. They pray the Rosary as it were a magical tool in order to get whatever they want to. If that is not worship I don't know what it is. Veneration? Yes, sure. Maybe according to your man-made beliefs. But not according to the Bible, never.

I believe that if Mary had not existed, God would've chosen another woman. I'm not trying to belittle what Mary did. But she will never be at the same level as Jesus/God. She did her job and that's why she has been saved. That's all there is to it. She is mentioned in the Bible a few times and it doesn't say that we must pray to her, or that she's all the things that the Catholic Church says she is. Many Catholics are being deceived by a power that thinks itself greater than God.

These are merely your opinions. They are irrelevant. They mean nothing.

I hope Jesus has mercy upon you.

Well here is something that we can finally agree upon. We can trust that Jesus will show me mercy on my day of judgment, because he is merciful and loves his children.

 

[amariselle]

I'm moving on now. I'm done with the insults and the refusal to address Scripture.

For anyone who truly wants to know if the Catholic Church considers Mary to be god, do your research. Then read the Bible and study it carefully. Pray for guidance and discernment.

Search the Scriptures. Seek for truth. I pray that every Christian will do so, because He is faithful to grant understanding to those who truly seek Him.

Good night everyone and God bless.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Bible does not state that "Kneeling in front of a Mary statue (or any statue) is wrong". You wrote that. Scripture does not state that. You add to the word of God and put your man made tradition above the word of God.

Nor does the Bible state, "Thou shalt venerate the Queen of Heaven by erecting temples unto her glorious name and Thou shalt pray the Rosary so that Thou shalt prosper and be blessed."

 

[PeaceB]

Nor does the Bible state, "Thou shalt venerate the Queen of Heaven by erecting temples unto her glorious name and Thou shalt pray the Rosary so that Thou shalt prosper and be blessed."

Nor does it state "Thou shalt post silly things on the internet," but you just did.