Is Mary God?

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Most of our prayers are to Christ. Who ever suggested otherwise?

Why are not all of your prayers to Jesus Christ?

 

[prodromos]

Why are not all of your prayers to Jesus Christ?

Because the body of Christ is a communion of love. We pray for each other and we ask each other's prayers and in doing so foster love between the members of Christ's body. God obviously delights in this because he blesses it so abundantly. Miracles are commonplace in the Orthodox Church.

 

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Because the body of Christ is a communion of love. We pray for each other and we ask each other's prayers and in doing so foster love between the members of Christ's body. God obviously delights in this because he blesses it so abundantly. Miracles are commonplace in the Orthodox Church.

Miracles are also commonplace in Islam and Hinduism, to mention but two non-Christian religions. I do not base my faith on these sorts of miracles, but on the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Where is your faith?

 

[prodromos]

Where is your faith?

Where do you think?

 

[prodromos]

Miracles are also commonplace in Islam and Hinduism

I have never heard such a thing. How "commonplace" and where did you learn of these?

 

[Panevino]

You might also note that nowhere in Scripture is Mary given to anyone in any way as an intercessor.

All christians are

 

[Panevino]

It is an enormous leap from asking a personal friend to pray for you versus asking a long-deceased person who never knew you nor has any known interest in you or even ability to communicate with you, to pray for you.

As for myself, my Intercessor (Jesus Christ) sits at the right hand of the Father interceding for me 24/7/365. I don't need a postmistress to deliver my prayers to Him.

But this is a strawman

 

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I have never heard such a thing. How "commonplace" and where did you learn of these?

Here is one of a multitude of websites revealing commonplace Islamic miracles - Miracles of Islam - islamic miracles, miracle pictures of islam, miracle pictures You can easily find more with a simple internet search.

Here is a similar Hindu miracle site - Hindu world divided by a 24-hour wonder

 

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All christians are

Then, by that reasoning, you have no particular need to hire a priest to intercede for you when you can get the same sort of intercession from any and all Christians.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Where do you think?

It seems to be rather pantheistic with the Trinity being foremost, accompanied by a host of demi-gods and demi-goddesses, albeit unidentified as such.

 

[Panevino]

Then, by that reasoning, you have no particular need to hire a priest to intercede for you when you can get the same sort of intercession from any and all Christians.

1 Corinthians 12:20-31

But now are they many members, yet but one body.
And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.


Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

 

[prodromos]

Here is one of a multitude of websites revealing commonplace Islamic miracles - Miracles of Islam - islamic miracles, miracle pictures of islam, miracle pictures You can easily find more with a simple internet search.

Here is a similar Hindu miracle site - Hindu world divided by a 24-hour wonder

Seriously?
Most of the 'miracles' on that Moslem site seem to conform to something like the "Baader-Meinhof" phenomenon due to our brain's ability to recognise patterns. If it looks a bit like the name of Allah, then your average Moslem's brain will fill in the gaps so that to them it looks exactly like thd name of Allah. Hardly anything miraculous.

Where are the stories of people being healed of cancer, having crushed bones and other serious injuries healed, women being able to conceive after years of sterility, food supplies replenishing?

 

[Albion]

you never ask anyone to pray for because that would be superfluous, right?

Not to spirits that I am only guessing can hear me and respond, no. The verse that is always cited quite obviously does not refer to this sort of thing.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Seriously?
Most of the 'miracles' on that Moslem site seem to conform to something like the "Baader-Meinhof" phenomenon due to our brain's ability to recognise patterns. If it looks a bit like the name of Allah, then your average Moslem's brain will fill in the gaps so that to them it looks exactly like thd name of Allah. Hardly anything miraculous.

Where are the stories of people being healed of cancer, having crushed bones and other serious injuries healed, women being able to conceive after years of sterility, food supplies replenishing?

Your definition of miracle might be limited to humans being healed of various diseases, but the general definition of a miracle is any supernatural action performed by a deity. By that definition, all of the Islamic and Hindu miracles conform to the definition.

Concerning your criticism of the Muslim miracles, the Marian apparitions claimed by the Roman Catholic Church are in the very same league. If I am not mistaken, there have been Orthodox miracles related to the miraculous creation of some icons.

 

[bbbbbbb]

1 Corinthians 12:20-31

But now are they many members, yet but one body.
And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Thank you for helping to make my point. Paul wrote his letter to living people, not dead people who could not read his letter. He addressed the entire question of resurrection in the fifteenth chapter.

 

[prodromos]

Your definition of miracle might be limited to humans being healed of various diseases, but the general definition of a miracle is any supernatural action performed by a deity. By that definition, all of the Islamic and Hindu miracles conform to the definition.

Why do you feel the need to downplay the miracles occuring in the Orthodox Church? That is what your recent replies amount to. As Christians, I would have thought that the Scriptures were the source of our understanding of what is meant by the word "miracles".

Concerning your criticism of the Muslim miracles, the Marian apparitions claimed by the Roman Catholic Church are in the very same league.

There you go again. The Catholic Church is not the Orthodox Church nor are these the sort of 'miracles' I'm talking about.

If I am not mistaken, there have been Orthodox miracles related to the miraculous creation of some icons.

Well when you have some more details let me know. I suspect you will find they are in a completely different league.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Why do you feel the need to downplay the miracles occuring in the Orthodox Church? That is what your recent replies amount to. As Christians, I would have thought that the Scriptures were the source of our understanding of what is meant by the word "miracles".

There you go again. The Catholic Church is not the Orthodox Church nor are these the sort of 'miracles' I'm talking about.

Well when you have some more details let me know. I suspect you will find they are in a completely different league.

I am not downplaying the role of miracles in the Orthodox Church or in the Roman Catholic Church or in the Pentecostal Church in particular. I am, however, attempting to put the role of miracles in perspective in faith formation in every religion. The fact is that, from various perspectives, miracles occur regularly and are used to encourage the members of the religion as well as to convince unbelievers to join them.

If one's faith is based upon miracles, IMO, it is built on a very shaky foundation. This is equally true for Hindus, Muslims, and, yes, Christians.

In the meantime, you might enjoy this article - Thousands flock to 'miracle' icon at south suburban church

 

[prodromos]

I am not downplaying the role of miracles in the Orthodox Church or in the Roman Catholic Church or in the Pentecostal Church in particular. I am, however, attempting to put the role of miracles in perspective in faith formation in every religion.

I'm not seeing that, but ok.

The fact is that, from various perspectives, miracles occur regularly and are used to encourage the members of the religion as well as to convince unbelievers to join them.

They are a great encouragement within the Church, but no we don't as a general rule broadcast them outside the Church as a means of converting people.

If one's faith is based upon miracles, IMO, it is built on a very shaky foundation. This is equally true for Hindus, Muslims, and, yes, Christians.

No disagreement there.

In the meantime, you might enjoy this article - Thousands flock to 'miracle' icon at south suburban church

Thank you

 

[Panevino]

W

Thank you for helping to make my point. Paul wrote his letter to living people, not dead people who could not read his letter. He addressed the entire question of resurrection in the fifteenth chapter.

I copied 1cor12:20-31 in response to your query of the value of asking for intercession of a priest which was prompted by my statement that all christians (not just Mary) have a role in intercession.
The verse points to value /unique role of different parts of the body.

 

[kepha31]

Before anything can be declared a miracle, it has to pass strict scientific scrutiny. Scientists do not declare miracles, they can only say there is no explanation. Whether or not Muslims and Hindus have a discerning mechanism is not known. Once scientific findings are submitted to the Church, it may or may not be declared a miracle.
Scientific Evidence for Miracles page 1: examination of the Lourdes rules for miracel acceptence.