Is Lying inherited from the Garden?

[Lulav]

Between the news and everyday life one thing I've seen that is a common denominator among both non Christians and Christians is lying. Not saying all of course, but the point is that it doesn't seem to be marker of those who know the truth and believe in upholding it.

In the garden when both Adam and Eve disobeyed the L-RD they experienced fear when they heard him walking in the garden.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the L-RD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the L-RD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the L-RD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.​

Is fear the base of all lying?

Does the fear a symptom of self preservation?

Is it an inherited action?

Ps 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; the liars go astray from birth.​

Does the action of being born again, take this away?

Can it be overcome?

Rev 21 …7 The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. 8 But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

[Dave-W]

Is fear the base of all lying?

No.

Does the fear a symptom of self preservation?

I have known people to lie even when the truth would have been better for them.

Does the action of being born again, take this away?

No. At least no in some people. I am sure that most will eventually stop lying when they spiritually grow up, there are some who cannot leave it behind.

 

[Lulav]

No.

What do you think are other reasons?

I have known people to lie even when the truth would have been better for them.

Do you think it's like a habit? They do it before even thinking about it?

No. At least no in some people. I am sure that most will eventually stop lying when they spiritually grow up, there are some who cannot leave it behind.

What if they don't 'grow up'? will they be in the lake of fire as stated in Revelation above?

 

[Dave-W]

Do you think it's like a habit? They do it before even thinking about it?

It can be that, and in some cases I believe it to be demonic.

What if they don't 'grow up'? will they be in the lake of fire as stated in Revelation above?

I have never ascribed to "once saved always saved;" so that may be possible. But it would be that way ONLY after the Lord dealing with the lies over and over. And they choose the lies over HIM.

 

[visionary]

What can cause people to lie.
One-up-manship
Guilt
Misleading
False testimony
Entrapment
It was a joke
Betrayal
Personal gain
Pride
"Don't want to hurt the other person's feelings" excuse
etc etc.. I am sure other will think of some I missed.

 

[Lulav]

What can cause people to lie.
One-up-manship
Guilt
Misleading
False testimony
Entrapment
It was a joke
Betrayal
Personal gain
Pride
"Don't want to hurt the other person's feelings" excuse
etc etc.. I am sure other will think of some I missed.

What are your thoughts on this?

Is it an inherited action?

Ps 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; the liars go astray from birth.

 

[visionary]

Is it an inherited action?

Ps 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; the liars go astray from birth.

If it was inherited, wouldn't it read, liars go astray from conception? Although there is something to be said about the inheritance, otherwise why would the Lord talk about the inheritance until the fourth generation...
Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

 

[pinacled]

Between the news and everyday life one thing I've seen that is a common denominator among both non Christians and Christians is lying. Not saying all of course, but the point is that it doesn't seem to be marker of those who know the truth and believe in upholding it.

In the garden when both Adam and Eve disobeyed the L-RD they experienced fear when they heard him walking in the garden.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the L-RD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the L-RD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the L-RD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.​

Is fear the base of all lying?

Does the fear a symptom of self preservation?

Is it an inherited action?

Ps 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; the liars go astray from birth.​

Does the action of being born again, take this away?

Can it be overcome?

Rev 21 …7 The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. 8 But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

Yeshayahu 57

"Whom do you dread and fear, That you tell lies?
But you gave no thought to Me, You paid no heed.

It is because I have stood idly by so long That you have no fear of Me."




Kefa said, “Sir, are you telling this parable for our benefit only or for everyone’s?”
42 The Lord replied, “Nu, who is the faithful and sensible manager whose master puts him in charge of the household staff to give them their share of food at the proper time? 43 It will go well with that servant if he is found doing his job when his master comes. 44 Yes, I tell you he will put him in charge of all he owns. 45 But if that servant says to himself,
‘My master is taking his time coming,’
and starts bullying the men- and women-servants, and eating and drinking, getting drunk, 46 then his master will come on a day when the servant isn’t expecting him, at a time he doesn’t know in advance; his master will cut him in two and put him with the disloyal. 47 Now the servant who knew what his master wanted but didn’t prepare or act according to his will, will be whipped with many lashes; 48 however, the one who did what deserves a beating, but didn’t know, will receive few lashes. From him who has been given much, much will be demanded — from someone to whom people entrust much, they ask still more.

 

[Lulav]

Is it an inherited action?

Ps 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; the liars go astray from birth.

If it was inherited, wouldn't it read, liars go astray from conception? Although there is something to be said about the inheritance, otherwise why would the Lord talk about the inheritance until the fourth generation...
Exodus 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

I'm not so sure it would be worded that way, probably because a baby can't lie while in the womb.

Yes, that verse in Ex is exactly why I am thinking it is inherited. How else do you 'visit the iniquities' on the children for what their fathers did? There is also the bit about not being able to allow I think the Midianites to be married into until so many generations have passed.

 

[pinacled]

I'm not so sure it would be worded that way, probably because a baby can't lie while in the womb.

Yes, that verse in Ex is exactly why I am thinking it is inherited. How else do you 'visit the iniquities' on the children for what their fathers did? There is also the bit about not being able to allow I think the Midianites to be married into until so many generations have passed.

Something of generations ive looked into over the yrs that i consider generational ordinances.
Though the Lord hated esav. The Mercy for the third generation seems to me a reconciliation offered to those who are truly innocent.
If a generation sell"s their birth right, over again is the curse applied to that houses generations.
Hence, "two fold sons of destruction


Devarim 23
No Ammonite or Moabite shall be admitted into the congregation of the LORD; none of their descendants, even in the tenth generation, shall ever be admitted into the congregation [minyan] of the LORD,
}
You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your kinsman. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, for you were a stranger in his land.
Children born to them may be admitted into the congregation of the LORD in the third generation.

 

[pinacled]

Between the news and everyday life one thing I've seen that is a common denominator among both non Christians and Christians is lying. Not saying all of course, but the point is that it doesn't seem to be marker of those who know the truth and believe in upholding it.

In the garden when both Adam and Eve disobeyed the L-RD they experienced fear when they heard him walking in the garden.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the L-RD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the L-RD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the L-RD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.​

Is fear the base of all lying?

Does the fear a symptom of self preservation?

Is it an inherited action?

Ps 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; the liars go astray from birth.​

Does the action of being born again, take this away?

Can it be overcome?

Rev 21 …7 The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. 8 But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”

Personally i believe the inheritance promised has been since the beginning.
Since the promise was carried by havel then sheth till the tenth generation..

also, i do not consider adam and chavah to be liars, what so ever.
In actuality i thought they where the ones that the Lord went to release.

“Whoever wants to love life and see good days
must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit,
11 turn from evil and do good,
seek peace and chase after it.
12 For Adonai keeps his eyes on the righteous,
and his ears are open to their prayers;
but the face of Adonai is against
those who do evil things.”

13 For who will hurt you if you become zealots for what is good? 14 But even if you do suffer for being righteous, you are blessed! Moreover, don’t fear what they fear or be disturbed, 15 but treat the Messiah as holy, as Lord in your hearts; while remaining always ready to give a reasoned answer to anyone who asks you to explain the hope you have in you — yet with humility and fear, 16 keeping your conscience clear, so that when you are spoken against, those who abuse the good behavior flowing from your union with the Messiah may be put to shame. 17 For if God has in fact willed that you should suffer, it is better that you suffer for doing what is good than for doing what is evil.

18 For the Messiah himself died for sins, once and for all, a righteous person on behalf of unrighteous people, so that he might bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but brought to life by the Spirit;
19 and in this form he went and made a proclamation to the imprisoned spirits,
20 to those who were disobedient long ago, in the days of Noach, when God waited patiently during the building of the ark, in which a few people — to be specific, eight — were delivered by means of water.

 

[pinacled]

Seek peace?

An honorable bond of peace woven in lovingkindness as far I can see. A diversity of gifts freely given with each promise.

A promise was given to chavah mother of all living and her husband also. The first living soul Adam.

From the perspective of the Lords promise of salvation(Yeshua) there is in no way I can personally deny such an oral or written Torah. To do so would be a blasphemy of the Favor(grace) and equal scales of justice. To deny the purity of wisdom, no. That to me is likened to ignore every prophet that spoke in the name of the Holy One. And further more deny a promised inheritance.

Though there are a diversity of gifts.
I personally find it impossible to deny the most important gift.

Blessed be He that was, is, and is to come.

 

[Lulav]

Something of generations ive looked into over the yrs that i consider generational ordinances.
Though the Lord hated esav. The Mercy for the third generation seems to me a reconciliation offered to those who are truly innocent.
If a generation sell"s their birth right, over again is the curse applied to that houses generations.
Hence, "two fold sons of destruction


Devarim 23
No Ammonite or Moabite shall be admitted into the congregation of the LORD; none of their descendants, even in the tenth generation, shall ever be admitted into the congregation [minyan] of the LORD,
}
You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your kinsman. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, for you were a stranger in his land.
Children born to them may be admitted into the congregation of the LORD in the third generation.

I don't think it has anything to do with reconciliation, more like genetics.

Genetic switches to be exact or Gene regulation. Erroneously thought to be 'evolution' but I think by the creator these were put into place to counteract genetic manipulation.

 

[pinacled]

Story's be told by the supposed science community involving the dissertations of current and past errors concerning the field of studying biology.

Forget all the current nonsense that has been discarded by peer review then subsequently spralled across the internet. These days, once respected science publications have become a garbage heep of lies. First by Greeks, then romans alike saught to smear the Good earth and Adams inheritance.

The discussion of genetic inheritance is a fallacy imposed with force and neglegence. As if sin could be inherited is a bold lie by those who seek to extort from others their rightful inheritance promised since the beginning.

A philosophy of usury designed to call the Most High and blessed eternal Throne evil.

 

[pinacled]

I don't think it has anything to do with reconciliation, more like genetics.

Genetic switches to be exact or Gene regulation. Erroneously thought to be 'evolution' but I think by the creator these were put into place to counteract genetic manipulation.

Essentially it has always been the vanity of quayin to uphold a caste system known as Babel.
Pyramid, base, and so on.

 

[pinacled]

I don't think it has anything to do with reconciliation, more like genetics.

Genetic switches to be exact or Gene regulation. Erroneously thought to be 'evolution' but I think by the creator these were put into place to counteract genetic manipulation.

Look at the devourer this way.
Do you honestly think ha'satan would stop with a single generation?
No,
Ha'satan seeks the children also.

Every person that takes the mark Offers their offspring(children) and inheritance. Regardless of whether or not they are made aware at the moment of receiving the mark.

Hence the doctrine of devils teach original sin is an inheritance.

 

[Lulav]

Look at the devourer this way.
Do you honestly think ha'satan would stop with a single generation?
No,
Ha'satan seeks the children also.

Every person that takes the mark Offers their offspring(children) and inheritance. Regardless of whether or not they are made aware at the moment of receiving the mark.

Hence the doctrine of devils teach original sin is an inheritance.

No, I believe it's genetics.

9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the L-RD your G-d, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children, to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,​

It's not clear in the English, at least not this version, but it says specifically

The iniquity of the Fathers on their sons (the Hebrew is banim - 'sons', not children which would be mizzrao, Seed, Children מִזַּרְע֛וֹ

And what is Iniquity?

עָוֹן
Perversity, depravity
blame (1), guilt (21), guilty (1), iniquities (46), iniquity (143), punishment (12), punishment for the iniquity (3), punishment for their iniquity (3).

 

[pinacled]

No, I believe it's genetics.

9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the L-RD your G-d, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children, to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,​

It's not clear in the English, at least not this version, but it says specifically

The iniquity of the Fathers on their sons (the Hebrew is banim - 'sons', not children which would be mizzrao, Seed, Children מִזַּרְע֛וֹ

And what is Iniquity?

עָוֹן
Perversity, depravity
blame (1), guilt (21), guilty (1), iniquities (46), iniquity (143), punishment (12), punishment for the iniquity (3), punishment for their iniquity (3).

True, this is what the Lord said in the Torah shemot.
The parralel I found was quayin and his seeds absolute defiance. Hence the 4th generation being an inflection of the 4th day that is the mark of their abomination.

When reading and learning from the prophet yecheskel who spoke in the Name of the Lord there is mention of something concerning a promise.
Yecheskel 18;20
a reminder of the promise of salvation to those who do love the Lord and carry his promises like sheth after havel had. At least that is what I had learned in the spirit.

Blessed be the eternal throne.

 

[childeye 2]

Is fear the base of all lying?

For mankind, I believe lies manifest where there is distrust of others. Distrust is a type of fear. And I believe that Distrust first formed from reasoning upon a false image of god. A false image of god comes from believing a lie about God. So people lie because they believed a lie about God.

Does the fear a symptom of self preservation?

A fear of rejection. A fear of exposure. Hiding the truth of one's own perceived or unperceived failures. Fear of the unknown.

Is it an inherited action?

I believe sin is inherited but lying specifically is probably the product of reasoning through vanity.

Does the action of being born again, take this away?

I believe that the renewing of the mind is necessary. The Holy Spirit is the One that reveals the lies we believe and promote. Subsequently, the Image of God that is True and pure defeats fear, just as perfect Love casts out all fear.

Can it be overcome?

Definitely.

 

[Dave-W]

What do you think are other reasons?
Do you think it's like a habit? They do it before even thinking about it?

It could be a habit in some people. In others I believe it to be demonic in origin.

What if they don't 'grow up'? will they be in the lake of fire as stated in Revelation above?

That would depend on a number of factors.
Only God could possibly know the answer to that.