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Is Love feeling ?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by SANTOSO, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    Are we not called to pursue love ?

    This is what we have heard:
    2 "'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.
    3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary.
    4 But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.
    5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

    How do you understand this ?
     
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  2. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Love is patient
    Love is kind
    Love does not keep record of wrongs

    Read 1 Corinthians 13 for the rest.
     
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  3. Tone

    Tone "Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great." Supporter

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    Is Love feeling ?

    Sure, but not in His entirety.

    He is Shalom.
     
  4. Tone

    Tone "Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great." Supporter

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    It seems that the audience may have became a bit self-righteous and, thus, forgotten where they once were.

    Maybe, they conducted their tests and their critical examinations and deemed (rightfully or not) their subjects as wanting.

    But, did they forget to be merciful and kind? Did they cast out, without a way for restoration?

    Did they forget their brokenness? When they experienced the unconditional Love of the Father for the first time and did they seek forgiveness from those they had wronged...restoration?

    2 Corinthians 2:6
    "5Now if anyone has caused grief, he has not grieved me but all of you—to some degree, not to overstate it. 6The punishment imposed on him by the majority is sufficient for him. 7So instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. "

    *Did fear for their own well-being dull their senses to having compassion on the perceived threat?

    **Matthew 6:14
     
  5. DiscipleHeLovesToo

    DiscipleHeLovesToo Regular Member Supporter

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    (Rev 2:2) I knowG1492 thyG4675 works,G2041 andG2532 thyG4675 labour,G2873 andG2532 thyG4675 patience,G5281 andG2532 howG3754 thou canstG1410 notG3756 bearG941 them which are evil:G2556 andG2532 thou hast triedG3985 them which sayG5335 they areG1511 apostles,G652 andG2532 areG1526 not,G3756 andG2532 hast foundG2147 themG846 liars:G5571
    (Rev 2:3) AndG2532 hast borne,G941 andG2532 hastG2192 patience,G5281 andG2532 for my name's sakeG1223 G3450 G3686 hast laboured,G2872 andG2532 hast notG3756 fainted.G2577
    (Rev 2:4) NeverthelessG235 I haveG2192 somewhat againstG2596 thee,G4675 becauseG3754 thou hast leftG863 thyG4675 firstG4413 love.G26
    (Rev 2:5) RememberG3421 thereforeG3767 from whenceG4159 thou art fallen,G1601 andG2532 repent,G3340 andG2532 doG4160 theG3588 firstG4413 works;G2041 or elseG1490 I will comeG2064 unto theeG4671 quickly,G5034 andG2532 will removeG2795 thyG4675 candlestickG3087 out ofG1537 hisG848 place,G5117 exceptG3362 thou repent.G3340


    the Greek word for 'agapē' (Strong's G26) - 'love' in 2:4, and 'charity' in 2:19, KJV) is used only twice in Revelations; here and in verse 2:19:

    (Rev 2:19) I knowG1492 thyG4675 works,G2041 andG2532 charity,G26 andG2532 service,G1248 andG2532 faith,G4102 andG2532 thyG4675 patience,G5281 andG2532 thyG4675 works;G2041 andG2532 theG3588 lastG2078 to be moreG4119 than theG3588 first.G4413

    the Lord commends the church of Ephesus for patience, for 'not bearing with them which are evil', and for 'trying them which say they are apostles, and are not'

    the Lord commends the church of Thyatira for 'service', 'faith', and 'patience'; and 'the last to be more than the first' - it would seem that these are the works the Lord was referring to in 2:5
     
  6. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    For the church in Ephesus, the Lord Jesus Christ do consider the work, toil and
    patience endurance !

    Why this work, toil, and patience endurance not counted as love He mention in Revelation 2:4 ?

    For the church in Ephesus, the Lord do admit that they are enduring patiently and bearing for His name ! Why all these are counted as love He mention in Revelation 2:4 ?

    Can you share what you understand about this love ?
     
  7. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    True. The question is what your work amount to that love that the Lord seeks in Revelation 2:4
     
  8. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    You can explain more what you understand.
     
  9. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    The Lord we find to validate the audience for the church in Ephesus with their work, toil and endurance ; there is no indication that they have done in their own self righteous way ! If they did, the Lord would certainly not commended their work !

    As their test and critical of examination for the false apostle, the Lord commend that they were bearing rightly !

    I don’t think that the people in church of Ephesus are unmerciful and unkind. Otherwise, why the need the Lord commends their patience endurance!

    I have no idea whether they forget their brokenness or about their spiritual experience about the unconditional love of the Father. But I don’t think they wrong anybody. I understand Jesus is more concerned about their love !

    I don’t think what you quote in 2 Corinthians 2:5-6 relevant to the church in Ephesus but most likely applied to the church in Corinthians.

    I don’t think it concerns with what you quote from Matthew 6:14 either,too.
     
  10. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    Could you explain the love in Revelation 2:4 ? How you pursue this love ?
     
  11. DiscipleHeLovesToo

    DiscipleHeLovesToo Regular Member Supporter

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    'not bearing with them which are evil', 'trying them which say they are apostles, and are not' - these things relate to sin and judgement (Old Testament covenant)

    'service', 'faith' - these things relate to faith and mercy (New Testament covenant)

    (Jas 2:10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    (Jas 2:11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
    (Jas 2:12) So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
    (Jas 2:13) For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

    there are other interpretations though

    G26
    ἀγάπη
    agapē
    ag-ah'-pay
    From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.
    Total KJV occurrences: 116
     
  12. DiscipleHeLovesToo

    DiscipleHeLovesToo Regular Member Supporter

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    to me it means 'selfless love'; be led by God in all you do as much as you can, confirming His leading with His Word, and you'll find it :)
     
  13. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    As I understand that the Lord commend the church in Ephesus after that they can’t bear the false apostle who did evil ; I do believe that service that they have done is appreciated by the Lord. Likewise, their faith in the Lord. Otherwise, the Lord wouldn’t commend so much !

    About the whole law, I understand the Lord mentions about this love which the Lord values !

    I understand that you relate about agape love meaning. As you see in revelation 2:4, after repentance, the Lord commands them to do the first work — that is called love !
     
  14. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    You can see that the church in Ephesus is also led by God in all their work, toil, patience endurance as much as they can ! They indeed confirm His leading with His Word ; that is how they found out the false apostles!
    Finding this love is paramount importance to us ! That is why the Lord emphasis much !
     
  15. DiscipleHeLovesToo

    DiscipleHeLovesToo Regular Member Supporter

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    yes, the first work is love; and love seeks not judgement ('not bearing with them which are evil', 'trying them which say they are apostles, and are not'), but rejoices in mercy ('service', 'faith'):

    (Jas 2:13) For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

    the church at Ephesus was right to 'not bear with them which are evil', and to 'try them which say they are apostles, and are not' - but they evidently left off their first love (selfless love in the forms of 'service', 'faith')
     
  16. SANTOSO

    SANTOSO Well-Known Member

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    You may say that! We can ascertain that the Lord accepts their service and faith through what we have heard His commendation!

    The Lord doesn’t discuss about service or faith to the church In Ephesus in the book of revelation, He explicitly have said — love that first love !
     
  17. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    It's a book in the bible, if you need a definition for a word, use the context of the bible. It's the application that matters.
     
  18. Tone

    Tone "Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great." Supporter

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    That's just it. He didn't commend their work. He said He knew it, but did He feel it? I think not, since He called for them to repent.



    Yes, you've said it here. This is what I'm saying as well. Love is more than finding fault and putting away.


    Sure they do.

    2 Timothy 3:16
    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
     
  19. Tone

    Tone "Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great." Supporter

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    Elohim is Love.
     
  20. DiscipleHeLovesToo

    DiscipleHeLovesToo Regular Member Supporter

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    in your opening post, you asked:

    "How do you understand this ?"

    i answered your question - it's up to you what you choose to believe my Friend :)
     
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