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Featured Is land restoration a part of the new covenant?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by claninja, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    The old covenant was an agreement between the nation of Israel and God: If Israel obeyed the laws of Moses, then God would bless (Deuteronomy 28:1-14). If Israel did not obey the laws of Moses, then God would curse (Deuteronomy 28:15-68). And if after the blessings and curses were poured that Israel returned to the Lord, he would restore them from captivity and back to the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:1-5). Thus, the Promises and Curses of the Law of Moses were CONDITIONAL upon the nation Israel's obedience.

    As we can see in scripture:

    -Israel was blessed according to the law of Moses (1 kings 8:56)
    -Israel was cursed according to the law of Moses (Daniel 9:13)
    -Israel was restored to the land after Babylonian exile (Jeremiah 29:10-14, Psalm 85:1, 2 Chronicles 36:21-23).
    -Christ was born, in the flesh, under the law, in the land after Israel had been restored (Galatians 4:4, Luke 2:1-7)


    The law of Moses was added AFTER the promises were made to Abraham, so as not to annul them (Galatians 3:17). The Laws of Moses were added because of sin (Galatians 3:19) and to give knowledge of sin (Romans 7:7). The Law of Moses was a guardian (Galatians 3:24).

    The Law was temporary. It was only to be until the time of the coming of Christ in the flesh, until the time of reformation (Galatians 3:19, Galatians 3:24, Hebrews 9:10).

    And So when Christ came in flesh, He did not abolish the Law, but brought it to its completion (Matthew 5:17, Luke 24:44), for He is the reality of the shadow (Colossians 2:17, Hebrews 10:1). And by its completion in Christ, the righteous standards of the Law are now fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4), for Christ is the yes to all the promises of God (2 Corinthians 1:20).

    What was made obsolete by the work of Christ, was the CONDITIONAL old covenant agreement, which was superseded by the new covenant (Hebrews 8:13) and its BETTER promises (Hebrews 8:6) due to a fault in the old covenant. Not a fault on the part of God or the righteous standards of the laws themselves, but in the fault of the people who could not keep their end of the agreement (Hebrews 8:7).

    And some of the Better promises of the new covenant include:
    - the forgiveness of sin (Ephesians 1:7)
    - reconciliation with God (colossians 1:22)
    - eternal life (John 3:16)
    - fruit of the Spirit (galatians 5:22)
    - inheritance in the kingdom (matthew 25:35, Hebrews 12:28)
    - resurrection from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:54)
    - the imputed righteous standards of God through Christ (romans 8:4)


    So, as land restoration was already fulfilled following the Babylonian exile, and the old covenant was made obsolete and superseded by the new covenant with its better promises, IS LAND RESTORATION A PART OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND IF SO WHAT NEW TESTAMENT VERSES CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY SUPPORT THIS?

    Please follow forum policy when providing answers:

    "When you disagree with someone's position, you should post evidence and supporting statements for your position. This policy, sometimes referred to as "X means Y because of Z", must be followed especially when posting claims that are widely considered to be controversial."



     
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  2. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    All covenants were fulfilled through Jesus


    Matthew 5:5

    Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

    The land totally restored to all of Gods people.


    A New Heaven and a New Earth
    (Isaiah 65:17-25)

    Revelation
    1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:

    “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,
    and He will dwell with them.
    They will be His people,
    and God Himself will be with them as their God.b
    4He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,
    and there will be no more death
    or mourning or crying or pain,
    for the former things have passed away.”

    5And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true.” 6And He told me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life. 7The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.

    The final restoration of the land (the new earth) to Gods people.
     
  3. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    It was? Have you read what the boundaries of the land were to be? Israel has never yet controlled that much land. It includes all of Jordan and half of Iraq.
     
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    :amen: :oldthumbsup:

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
    Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
    Also see:
    Rapture refuted

    Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page

    Israel's land promise fulfilled in 1350 BC

    1. Israel got all the land they were promised!
    2. Israel's 1948 nationhood is not the beginning of the fulfillment of the land promise made to Abraham!
    3. Abraham's land promise fulfilled by Joshua, Solomon!
    4. Christ will never set foot on earth again!
    5. Read more

    [​IMG]

    A. Plain Bible passages say that Israel got all the land promised Abraham:

    1. "So the Lord gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the Lord gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the Lord had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. " (Joshua 21:43-45)

    2. "Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the Lord your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. "It shall come about that just as all the good words which the Lord your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the Lord will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God has given you. " (Joshua 23:14-15)

    3. Josh 24:28 Then Joshua dismissed the people, each to his inheritance.

    4. 2 Sam 8:3 David defeated Hadadezer...as he went to restore his rule at the River [Euphrates].

    5. 1 Kings 4:21 Now Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the [Euphrates] River to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt; they brought tribute and served Solomon

    6. 2 Chr 9:26 And he was the ruler over all the kings from the Euphrates River even to the land of the Philistines, and as far as the border of Egypt.

    7. Neh 9:8 And Thou didst find Abraham's heart faithful before Thee, and didst make a covenant with him to give him the land of the Canaanite, of the Hittite and the Amorite, of the Perizzite, the Jebusite, and the Girgashite-- to give it to his descendants. And Thou hast fulfilled Thy promise, for Thou art righteous.

    8. Jer 11:5 "in order to confirm the oath which I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day." Then I answered and said, "Amen, O LORD."

    9. So it is simply apostate theology to say that God did not give Israel all the land promised to Abraham.
     
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Here is the land division for the 12 Tribes.
    How many Jews do you figure can fit in the parcels of Judah and Benjamin as shown below?

    Eze 48:1
    “Now these are the names of the tribes: From the northern border along the road to Hethlon at the entrance of Hamath, to Hazar Enan, the border of Damascus northward, in the direction of Hamath, there shall be one section for Dan from its east to its west side;

    Eze 48:22
    “Moreover, apart from the possession of the Levites and the possession of the citTy which are in the midst of what belongs to the prince, the area between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin shall belong to the Prince.

    Map Judah Benjamin.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Show me a map that accurately shows Israel on the banks of the Nile and Euphrates rivers.


    Genesis 15:18
    On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:

    Deuteronomy 11:24
    Every place on which the sole of your foot treads shall be yours; your border will be from the wilderness to Lebanon, and from the river, the river Euphrates, as far as the western sea

    Joshua 1:4
    From the wilderness and this Lebanon, even as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and as far as the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun will be your territory.
     
  7. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    The earth will be consumed by fire, so I would be looking forward and above, to the new earth. Everything else is temporary and has no importance.
     
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Yeah, that pretty much clinches it. They can have the land, which will get scorched anyway........
     
  9. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Correct ... not until the new earth is created.
     
  10. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Amen to that!

    Not too much disagreement here.

    I would argue the heavenly Jerusalem = the new covenant and all those that belong to Christ under new covenant

    Paul correlates the new covenant to the Jerusalem that is above.

    Galatians 4:24-26 These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent TWO COVENANTS. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

    The Author of Hebrews states "you have come" (perfect tense: completed action) to the heavenly Jerusalem.

    Hebrews 12:22 Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels

    Additionally, We can confirm the new Jerusalem is also made up of believers, by using scripture to interpret scripture:

    BOTH the new Jerusalem and the church are the bride of Christ

    Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church

    Revelation 21:9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

    BOTH the new Jerusalem and the body of Christ are built on the foundations of the apostles:

    Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

    Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb

    BOTH the new Jerusalem and the body of Christ are the dwelling place of God

    Ephesians 2:22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit

    2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God

    Under the new covenant and through Christ, all things are ours, this includes the world.

    1 Corinthians 3:21-22 Therefore stop boasting in men. All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future. All of them belong to you,

    The plural promises made to Abraham and his offspring were to Christ, this would include the land of Israel as an everlasting possession. Thus the promise of the land as an everlasting possession finds it completion in Christ.

    Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

    Christ was given all dominion at his death, resurrection, and ascension.

    Ephesians 1:20-21 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come

    Thus while the believer has been translated into the kingdom now,

    Colossians 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son
    Hebrews 12:28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe

    The believer inherits the kingdom upon the resurrection

    2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom.

    Matthew 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.


    Thus being co heirs of Christ over the new heavens and new earth
     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Hello eleos.
    Jesus was standing on earth when He gave His 70AD Revelation to John?

    Revelation 1:
    9 I John, the brother of ye and partner/companion in the affliction/tribulation and kingdom and endurance in Jesus [Christ]. I became in the island, the one being called Patmos, because of the Word of the God and because of the testimony/witness of Jesus [Christ]
    10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind<3694> me a loud Voice, as of a trumpet,
    12 And I turned<1994> to see the Voice that spoke with me. And having turned<1994> I saw seven golden Lampstands/Candlesticks<3087>,
    13 and in the midst of the seven Lampstands/Candleticks [One] like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the paps with a golden band.
    ===============
    Later while standing on the seashore of Patmos, he sees 2 mysterious Beasts:

    Reve 13:11-18 "WILD BEAST OUT OF THE LAND/EARTH"

    The wild Beasts from the Sea and from the Land


    Revelation 13:
    1 And I was standing on the sand of the sea,
    and I saw out of the sea a wild-beast ascending having 10 horns and 7 heads
    and upon the horns of it, ten diadems and upon the heads of it names of blasphemy.

    11 And I saw another wild-beast ascending out of the land,
    and it had two horns like-as a lambkin and it spoke as a Dragon

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Show us a map that disproves this inspired Scriptural declaration:

    So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and not one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. " (Joshua 21:43-45)
     
  13. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    I am assuming your interpretation of the boundaries comes from Genesis 15:8?

    Genesis 15:18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites

    Well, we know that prior to the Assyrian and Babylonian exile, Israel was given all the land that was promised to their fathers. Scripture testifies to this. So regardless of how one interprets the boundaries of genesis 15, God gave it "all" to Israel and they took possession of it.

    Joshua 21:43 Thus the LORD gave Israel all the land He had sworn to give their fathers, and they took possession of it and settled there.

    Now after the Babylonian exile, it was promised that Israel would be restored from captivity and back to the land. This original promise is found in Deuteronomy 30:1-5, which was part of the old covenant agreement. This is also found multiple times in the pre exilic prophets, and exilic prophets. In Jeremiah we see that God would restore Israel back to the land after the 70 year exile. The author of 2 Chronicles confirms this as being fulfilled through Cyrus allowing the Israelites to return to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.

    Jeremiah 29:10-14 For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

    2 Chronicles 36:21-23 to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its Sabbaths. All the days that it lay desolate it kept Sabbath, to fulfill seventy years. Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom and also put it in writing: “Thus says Cyrus king of Persia, ‘The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth, and he has charged me to build him a house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whoever is among you of all his people, may the Lord his God be with him. Let him go up.’”

    Even the author of psalm 85, which is generally agreed upon to have been written following the Babylonian exile, confirms that Jacob was restored from captivity.

    Psalm 85:1 Lord, you were favorable to your land; you restored Jacob from Captivity.

    Therefore we can confirm via scripture that Israel was restored to the land under the old covenant. Land restoration was a part of the promises of the old covenant agreement.

    Following the return from exile to the land of Israel in fulfillment of God's old covenant promise to restore them to the land, Israel was:
    1.) under Persian rule, then
    2.) under Greek rule, then
    3.) under Roman rule


    As we can see, Jesus was able to walk freely through northern parts of the land of Israel, in which Israelites lived. Despite being under roman rule, Jesus' town was in the land of Israel.

    mark 7:31 Then he returned from the region of Tyre and went through Sidon to the Sea of Galilee, in the region of the Decapolis

    Matthew 4:13 And leaving Nazareth he went and lived in Capernaum by the sea, in the territory of Zebulun and Naphtali

    The old covenant, which includes the promise of land restoration, was only temporary, until the coming of Christ (galatians 3:19), to whom the promises of Abraham were spoken about

    From the NT, we know that the land was given to the singular offspring as an eternal possession, and is fulfilled in Christ as Paul applies the plural promises of Abraham to the singular offspring.

    Genesis 17:8 And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God.”

    Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

    Thus, as Christ is the singular offspring to whom the promises of Abraham were spoken (galatians 3:16), and Christ was made Lord (acts 2:36), and the earth is the Lord's (1 Corinthians 10:26), and the old covenant was made obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), then the promise of the land as an everlasting possession finds its fulfillment in Christ.

    So back to the OP, which is not about borders, If land restoration is still in effect for God's people (which is often held by dispensationalists), then where is it clearly and explicitly found in the NT and new covenant, as the old covenant was made?
     
  14. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    I gave my references in post #6. It is everywhere from the Nile to the Euphrates.

    Show me any evidence that Israel ever controlled the West Bank of the Nile or the East Bank of the Euphrates.

    If you cannot - I would submit your understanding of "all the land" is in error.
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Hello Dave.

    Do the Jews know about the 1st century prophecy in Revelation concerning the river Euphrates?

    Jer 46:10
    For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, A day of vengeance, That He may avenge Himself on His adversaries.
    The sword shall devour; It shall be satiated and made drunk with their blood;
    For the Lord GOD of hosts has a sacrifice in the north country by the River Euphrates.

    Rev 9:14
    saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”
    Rev 16:12

    Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the Kings from the east might be prepared.
    ===========================
    Revelation 17:
    16 And the ten Horns/Kings which thou saw and the Beast, these shall be hating the Whore[Jerusalem 70ad],
    and They shall be making Her desolate and naked, and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating
    and shall be burning Her in fire.

    [​IMG][/quote]
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  16. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Messianic Jews - yes.
    Traditional Jews - no.
     
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Show any evidence that Joshua's (or the writer's) understanding of "all the land" was in error.
     
  18. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Not their understanding - YOUR understanding of what they meant.

    They knew exactly what they meant and they were exactly correct.
    But the question is 3000 years later - do YOU understand what they meant?
     
  19. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, but your references don't mention the Nile, only the river of Egypt. When comparing this to other scripture, the "Nile" is not mentioned either.

    Genesis 15:18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates

    Numbers 34:5 And the border shall turn from Azmon to the Brook of Egypt, and its limit shall be at the sea.

    Ezekiel 47:19 On the south side, it shall run from Tamar as far as the waters of Meribah-kadesh, from there along the Brook of Egyptl to the Great Sea

    Per the Author of the book of 1 kings Solomon had dominion over everything west of the Euphrates as far as the border of Egypt.

    1 Kings 4:21 And Solomon reigned over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt. These kingdoms offered tribute and served Solomon all the days of his life.

    1 kings 4:24 For Solomon had dominion over everything west of the Euphrates —over all the kingdoms from Tiphsah to Gaza—and he had peace on all sides

    Scripture again testifies that Israel did in fact have possession over all the land that God promised.

    My understanding of Israel receiving all the land that was promised correlates to "not one word of all the good promises failed". To say that "all the land" doesn't really mean all the land, means that the author of Joshua was incorrect in stating "not one word of all the good promises failed".

    Joshua 21:43-45 Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. And the Lord gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the Lord had given all their enemies into their hands. Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.

    Anyways back to the OP, can you point to any NT scripture where land restoration is found in new covenant?
     
  20. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    What other major river is in Egypt?
     
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