Is Joseph the Father of God?

[Perceivence]

Heylo everyone!

This question is mainly for those who call Mary the Mother of God, but it'll be nice to see what those who don't call her that think too. Please, if you decide to post an answer, make it clear whether you're saying Yes or No to the question. Try not to post if you're not going to offer at least a bit of support for what you think. If you voted for option 3, please say why.

Don't be afraid to think and pray about it before you answer.

So, Is Joseph the Father of God?

If you want, you can also say if you think this question and its answer are as straightforward as the far more common one, "Is Mary the Mother of God?".

Thanks.

Perce

 

[Iollain]

I voted no because God does not have a father.

 

[Philip]

If you want, you can also say if you think this question and its answer are as straightforward as the far more common one, "Is Mary the Mother of God?".

It is not as straightforward.

St Joseph is the father of God in that he helped raise Emmanuel. On the otherhand, he did not contribute biologically to the Incarnation. He does not have the same connection to Christ that Mary Theotokos does.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Perceivence, don't you think is best if you state your reasons why you think Joseph is or isn't the father of God first before you expect others to state their reasons for or against? I do. I mean, come on, give us something to work with man. If you think Joseph is the father of God or that an arguement can be made for such an idea, spell it out before you expect others to answer to it. Maybe I'm just dumb but I don't understand the reasoning behind your question at all and before I do understand it I wont answer your poll question, if fact I can't.

 

[Blackhawk]

It is not as straightforward.

St Joseph is the father of God in that he helped raise Emmanuel. On the otherhand, he did not contribute biologically to the Incarnation. He does not have the same connection to Christ that Mary Theotokos does.

I agree with this. Jesus was God and man in one person. So as Jesus was growing up he was God. So Joseph was God's earthly father while Jesus was incarnate. I believe that Jesus treated Joseph as his earthly father and gave him the respect that he deserved as his earthly father.

 

[stone]

I would say no, because Mary was a virgin when she became pregnant with Jesus. Joseph did not get her pregnant, at least not until after Jesus was born, she had other children.

I can understand why, symbolically, she is refferred to as the virgin Mary, but she did not die a virgin.

I suppose Joseph raised Jesus as his own. I don't understand that if Jesus was only a step child of Joseph however, how is that Jesus can be called the son of David, being that Joseph is traced as being the descendant of King David?

Is this what the jews use as their ammo, that Jesus could not be the messiah, because he is not from the blood of David, wouldn't Mary have to be a descendant of David for the prophecy to be fulfilled?

This is a gray area i would like to know more of.

 

[Perceivence]

Perceivence, don't you think is best if you state your reasons why you think Joseph is or isn't the father of God first before you expect others to state their reasons for or against? I do. I mean, come on, give us something to work with man. If you think Joseph is the father of God or that an arguement can be made for such an idea, spell it out before you expect others to answer to it. Maybe I'm just dumb but I don't understand the reasoning behind your question at all and before I do understand it I wont answer your poll question, if fact I can't.

Well, I wanted to see what people would say before presenting my position. I don't really want my position to steer the discussion (as yet, at least) or to influence people away from what they already think so early in the topic.

I will give my position, though.

 

[Iollain]

I would say no, because Mary was a virgin when she became pregnant with Jesus. Joseph did not get her pregnant, at least not until after Jesus was born, she had other children.

I can understand why, symbolically, she is refferred to as the virgin Mary, but she did not die a virgin.

I suppose Joseph raised Jesus as his own. I don't understand that if Jesus was only a step child of Joseph however, how is that Jesus can be called the son of David, being that Joseph is traced as being the descendant of King David?

Is this what the jews use as their ammo, that Jesus could not be the messiah, because he is not from the blood of David, wouldn't Mary have to be a descendant of David for the prophecy to be fulfilled?

This is a gray area i would like to know more of.

Mary is a decendant of David, and through adoption Joseph was His earthly father.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Well, I wanted to see what people would say before presenting my position. I don't really want my position to steer the discussion (as yet, at least) or to influence people away from what they already think so early in the topic.

I will give my position, though.

Ok, that's fine but I'm not really asking for your opinion but the reasoning behind the thought. I need to see scriptural evidence. Is there a scripture that states this? It's been I while sense I read the story of Joseph but I don't remember anything in the story that suggests to me that he might be called "the father of God". I'm asking for chapters and or verses that at least will pertain to this question.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

No, because Saint Joseph is not biologically the father of Jesus Christ.

I suppose you could say that he is the "step-father of God" or something similar to that.

Rob

 

[Freedom&Light]

It is not as straightforward.

St Joseph is the father of God in that he helped raise Emmanuel. On the otherhand, he did not contribute biologically to the Incarnation. He does not have the same connection to Christ that Mary Theotokos does.

Ditto- he was an earthly father in that he helped raise Jesus, but he was not his biological father. Even if he wasn't Jesus' "father" St. Joseph was a special man and is a special blessing in the Church.

 

[stone]

Mary is a decendant of David, and through adoption Joseph was His earthly father.

No one ever said to me that Mary was the blood of David, actually i just assumed it, i guess out of logic, but i read, somewhere, in a bible i believe, yea, it was in a part of a bible that has short explanations throughout it with explanations of the books of the bible. It said that Joseph was the blood of David, when i read that it just totally confused me.

I'm glad you said this, kinda makes me feel better about my logic. lol

I'm gonna dig up that book and get the title and all that stuff and bring this up in here as soon as i can find it.

 

[Bulldog]

Linguistically, in both Greek and English, one does not need to "contribute biologically" to be a father. It can just refer to a man who raises a child, and even scripture refers to Joseph as being Jesus' father. (Luke 2:33)

 

[AngCath]

Jesus had Joseph to raise him on earth, thanks be to God, but Joseph is not the Father of God in the same way that Mary is the Mother of God. Mary bore the Incarnate Word after the Holy Spirit came over her and is the Theotokos.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Jesus had Joseph to raise him on earth, thanks be to God, but Joseph is not the Father of God in the same way that Mary is the Mother of God. Mary bore the Incarnate Word after the Holy Spirit came over her and is the Theotokos.

Yes, the Theotokos. This makes us able to say that Mary is the mother of God and since no one is able, or has refused to put forward any kind of the same evidence that Joseph is the father of God then I am going to vote "no".

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I voted no. But I still see Saint Joseph as Jesus' foster father...just not His father. Rob

 

[Perceivence]

Okay.

Uhmm, I ask the question cuz, it seems to me that, by Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican logic Joseph is as entitled to the title "Father of God" as Mary is to the title "Mother of God." Why say I this? Well, usually the following logical outline (or something like it) is given as proof that Mary is the Mother of God.

1. Mary is the mother of Jesus.
2. Jesus is God.
3. Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.

The logic is deductively valid and thus, it would seem, necessarily true. However, if that's the case for that, then it's also the case for the following:

1. Joseph is the father of Jesus. (Luke 2: 33, 48)
2. Jesus is God. (Duh)
3. Therefore, Joseph is the father of God.

Another consequence of these two things is that, it would seem, the question "Is Joseph the Father of God" is as straightforward as "Is Mary the Mother of God." But, it would seem - and I say this with no malice in my heart (I hope), but with the intent to illustrate a point - it is no more straightforward for the Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans et al. here than the question "Is Mary the Mother of God" is for the vast majority of Protestants here.

Yet, the very same "Traditionalists" who deny how straightforward this is and who deny Joseph the title of "Father of God" insist that the question of Mary being called the "Mother of God" is quite straightforward, and the Protestant denial of this title amounts to Nestorianism, dishonour of Mary or some other uncomplimentary thing.

So I voted for option 3.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

Heylo everyone!

This question is mainly for those who call Mary the Mother of God,

Big difference here, Mary actually is the biological Mother of God the Son. Joseph would be Jesus' foster father.

 

[Blackhawk]

Okay.

Uhmm, I ask the question cuz, it seems to me that, by Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican logic Joseph is as entitled to the title "Father of God" as Mary is to the title "Mother of God." Why say I this? Well, usually the following logical outline (or something like it) is given as proof that Mary is the Mother of God.

1. Mary is the mother of Jesus.
2. Jesus is God.
3. Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.

The logic is deductively valid and thus, it would seem, necessarily true. However, if that's the case for that, then it's also the case for the following:

1. Joseph is the father of Jesus. (Luke 2: 33, 48)
2. Jesus is God. (Duh)
3. Therefore, Joseph is the father of God.

Another consequence of these two things is that, it would seem, the question "Is Joseph the Father of God" is as straightforward as "Is Mary the Mother of God." But, it would seem - and I say this with no malice in my heart (I hope), but with the intent to illustrate a point - it is no more straightforward for the Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans et al. here than the question "Is Mary the Mother of God" is for the vast majority of Protestants here.

Yet, the very same "Traditionalists" who deny how straightforward this is and who deny Joseph the title of "Father of God" insist that the question of Mary being called the "Mother of God" is quite straightforward, and the Protestant denial of this title amounts to Nestorianism, dishonour of Mary or some other uncomplimentary thing.

So I voted for option 3.

First let me say that I am a protestant. Southern Baptist to be specific. But Joseph is clearly not Jesus' father in the same way that Mary is Jesus' mother. This is because Joseph did not contribute to the pregnancy at all. I did state that he was the father of God. But it is clear that he was not in the same way that Mary was the mother of God. Mary carried Jesus in her womb and while not getting crude let me just say that Joseph did not contribute to the pregnancy.

But to say that Mary is not the Mother of God is heresy as defined by the council of Ephesus. It is denying that Jesus is one person thus one subject. One can cknowledge that Mary is the mother of God and more blessed than any other woman while still being a protestant. I am just trying to show that Jesus was God even in the womb. That is orthodox. To claim otherwise would be heretical.

Also just so you know that I do not praise or adore Mary as Catholics do but I think one does not have to do that to go along with the title of theokotos. The title theokotos has more to do with Jesus Christ than Mary.

 

[Perceivence]

Philip

It is not as straightforward.

St Joseph is the father of God in that he helped raise Emmanuel. On the otherhand, he did not contribute biologically to the Incarnation. He does not have the same connection to Christ that Mary Theotokos does.

So he is Jesus' father, but Mary is more of a mother to Him than Joseph was a father to Him?

nephilimiyr

Ok, that's fine but I'm not really asking for your opinion but the reasoning behind the thought. I need to see scriptural evidence. Is there a scripture that states this? It's been I while sense I read the story of Joseph but I don't remember anything in the story that suggests to me that he might be called "the father of God". I'm asking for chapters and or verses that at least will pertain to this question.

Well, I posted my position as I said I would. The only verses I saw directly pertaining to it were the ones in Luke 2 that I pointed out in my post.

Robbie_James_Francis

No, because Saint Joseph is not biologically the father of Jesus Christ.

I suppose you could say that he is the "step-father of God" or something similar to that.

Rob

Well, Mary called him Jesus' father, so I don't think him not being the biological father of Jesus means he isn't His father.