Is John 17:3 true?

[LouisBooth]

"The verse simply says "I AM" and could mean several things other than he is God."

Ed, you haven't read the OT where God says that is his name did you. The people that hear this statement knew EXACTLY what Jesus was claiming. Go study greek and then read your OT.

"How can Jesus be the Christ that is the God in the Old Testament?"

well, number one he plainly said I AM THE MESSIAH..OR CHRIST.

"God made Jesus Christ. "

Nope..read phil 2:5-8 or John chapter 1, take your pick...or maybe where in john 17 he says he was with God in the beginning.

"The point is, how could Jesus have existed as Christ in the OT before he was exalted to the right hand of God?"

I think Jesus answered that himself several times the eaisest to spot is BEFORE ABRAHAM, I AM.

"You have't shown me any verse that says Jesus is God. John 8:58 says: "Before Abraham was I AM." This verse does not say Jesus is God. John 10:30 says: "I and the Father are one." This verse does not say Jesus is God. "

then sadly you have hardened your heart and blinded your eyes to the truth because that's exactly what those verses say.

 

[edpobre]

LouisBooth,

ED: The verse simply says "I AM" and could mean several things other than he is God."

LB: Ed, you haven't read the OT where God says that is his name did you. The people that hear this statement knew EXACTLY what Jesus was claiming. Go study greek and then read your OT.

The Pharisees were WRONG in supposing that Christ was saying he is God when he said "I AM." I have read that part where God says "I AM." I also know that God says "I am the Alpha and Omega." Jesus said this too but this does not mean that he was saying he is God.

ED: "How can Jesus be the Christ that is the God in the Old Testament?"

LB: well, number one he plainly said I AM THE MESSIAH..OR CHRIST.

Where does it say that Christ is God in the OT? The Bible does not teach that.

ED: "God made Jesus, Christ."

LB: Nope..read phil 2:5-8 or John chapter 1, take your pick...or maybe where in john 17 he says he was with God in the beginning.

Acts 2:36 says: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord andf Christ."

Phil. 2:5-8 is Paul's figurative way of describing Jesus' humility, that despite his awesome powers, he did not boast of it.

John 1:1 is not about Jesus. It is John's figurative way of describing God's WORD (expressed idea, plan or promise) regarding Jesus.

ED: "You have't shown me any verse that says Jesus is God. John 8:58 says: "Before Abraham was I AM." This verse does not say Jesus is God. John 10:30 says: "I and the Father are one." This verse does not say Jesus is God. "

LB:then sadly you have hardened your heart and blinded your eyes to the truth because that's exactly what those verses say.

It's your heart that has been hardened and your eyes that has been blinded to the truth that these verses do not say Jesus is God beyond what they truly mean.

You are seeing in these verses what your fanatical mind perceive.

Ed

 

[LouisBooth]

"The Pharisees were WRONG in supposing that Christ was saying he is God when he said "I AM." "

Don't think they where the only ones that thought that :lol: you're really grasping at straws here ed. if I say I am the great I am..you should understand that I am claiming to be God.

"Where does it say that Christ is God in the OT? The Bible does not teach that."

Jesus plainly says I am the Messiah...you equated this to being God.. should I post your words?

"Phil. 2:5-8 is Paul's figurative way of describing Jesus' humility, that despite his awesome powers, he did not boast of it."

What part of BEING IN THE VERY NATURE OF GOD dont you understand? Should I tell you about "nature" according to philosphy and theology?


"John 1:1 is not about Jesus. "

Not you're just ignoring what it says in the bible ed. John clearly marks Jesus as the logos...see verse 18, 14 and 30.

"It's your heart that has been hardened and your eyes that has been blinded to the truth that these verses do not say Jesus is God beyond what they truly mean."

I'm rubber and you're glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you..:lol: whatever ed. I have CLEAR biblical support for my positon along with church tradition backing me as well as (I would say) 90% of the current christian theologians.

 

[edpobre]

LouisBooth,

"The Pharisees were WRONG in supposing that Christ was saying he is God when he said "I AM." "

Don't think they where the only ones that thought that you're really grasping at straws here ed. if I say I am the great I am..you should understand that I am claiming to be God.

Iy you say you are the great I am, I wouldn't think you are claiming to be God. On the other hand, I would think you are a lunatic.

"Where does it say that Christ is God in the OT? The Bible does not teach that."

Jesus plainly says I am the Messiah...you equated this to being God.. should I post your words?

You are a liar to put words in my mouth. I dare you to post it.

"Phil. 2:5-8 is Paul's figurative way of describing Jesus' humility, that despite his awesome powers, he did not boast of it."

What part of BEING IN THE VERY NATURE OF GOD dont you understand? Should I tell you about "nature" according to philosphy and theology?

Why should anyone believe anything you say? Paul says in plain and clearly understandable English that there is only one God, the Father (1 Cor. 8:6). "Being in the very nature of God" does not mean Jesus is God. As I have satated, it;s only Paul's figurative way of describing the awesome powers of Jesus.

"John 1:1 is not about Jesus. "

Not you're just ignoring what it says in the bible ed. John clearly marks Jesus as the logos...see verse 18, 14 and 30.

See how blind you are Louis. I'm talking about Johhn 1:1 NOT the rest of chapter 1. Verse 18 of your version of the Bible is a mis-translation.

"It's your heart that has been hardened and your eyes that has been blinded to the truth that these verses do not say Jesus is God beyond what they truly mean."

I'm rubber and you're glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.. whatever ed. I have CLEAR biblical support for my positon along with church tradition backing me as well as (I would say) 90% of the current christian theologians.

I don't blame you for saying that Louis because you are a fanatic who doesn't want to seek the truth as recorded in the Bible. Just as psychos see things differently, fanatics do too.

You can believe what you want but nothing you have posted can change the TRUTH of John 17:3 - that the Father is the ONLY true God.

Ed

 

[ZoneChaos]

All scriptures are given by inspiration of God. Thus, no scripture or any translation or interpretation thereof must make another verse false.

I'm talking about Johhn 1:1 NOT the rest of chapter 1. Verse 18 of your version of the Bible is a mis-translation.

Ed, these are two of your wuotes. If you think that all translations of inspired, thenn how is this even possible?

The fact is, that only the original autographs were truly inspired. We must go as far back a we can, to the earliest translations we can, to get as close as we can to the poriginal autographs. Josephus pinted out that some of the newer translations were in error, when compared with the Hebrew. This is valid. And should be considered, and yet to shrugged it off in favor of a new translation which appears to suport your concepts. What you fail to ackknowledge is that the older translations do not support your concepts, and ye they are in less error than the ones you cling to.

 

[Josephus]

The Pharisees were WRONG in supposing that Christ was saying he is God when he said "I AM." I have read that part where God says "I AM." I also know that God says "I am the Alpha and Omega." Jesus said this too but this does not mean that he was saying he is God.

Then what do you think Jesus was meaning when he said, "I AM?" and not "I WAS" ..."I AM hungry?" lol

and how could Jesus exist before Abraham if he's not God? If your answer is, "Jesus existed as a spirit - that is how he could exist before Abraham" then isn't that category alone qualification enough to at least BEGIN to assume that the Spirit of Jesus could very well be the Spirit of God - aka the Father?

 

[LouisBooth]

"Iy you say you are the great I am, I wouldn't think you are claiming to be God. On the other hand, I would think you are a lunatic."

I don't think you have read the OT ed. This is the EXACT name God used to identify himself. It would be like me, in todays language, saying ed, I am God. You're just denying the words on the page now ed

"You are a liar to put words in my mouth. I dare you to post it."

Why don't you read Luke 9:18-27 He says it there

"Paul says in plain and clearly understandable English that there is only one God, the Father (1 Cor. 8:6). "

Ed, check that verse again and read the second part of it.. Jesus is Lord.. right there in black and white..now check the greek of that verse

"As I have satated, it;s only Paul's figurative way of describing the awesome powers of Jesus."

:lol: there is nothing "figerative" about it ed, he is literally in the nature of God He is God That's what Paul is claiming there.

" I'm talking about Johhn 1:1 NOT the rest of chapter 1. Verse 18 of your version of the Bible is a mis-translation."

Wel, John 1:1 is about Jesus, the author of John (usually thought to be John the apostle) clearly makes a link to show us that. If you don't believe it that's okay, just don't say it doesn't happen because even my 8 year old nephew can see that.


"You can believe what you want but nothing you have posted can change the TRUTH of John 17:3 - that the Father is the ONLY true God."

Ed, you can't mesh that with the rest of what Jesus say and have it not conflict, I can..that's what it comes down to. If you want to keep your view you have to cut out most of the book of John, and the other synopics, not to mention several of Pauls letters out of your bible. so get your sissors ready ed, because that's the ONLY way you can keep your view, by ignoring what the bible says.

 

[MikeMcK]

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