Is Jesus who he claims to be?

2PhiloVoid

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I would like for you all to list reasons why Jesus is and isnt historically correct. If he is then how do we know he is who he says he is. I am writing a paper on the matter.

Thank you!

...just a minute! Let me get my time-machine out and recharged, and then I'll tell you what makes Jesus 'historically' correct. :rolleyes:
 
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Solomons Porch

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Hey there welcome to CF, I know for a fact I cannot prove anything for your paper because it's something that is proven within my heart, I feel it and its tangible. Hopefully someone else can help you out, God bless :oldthumbsup:

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Hammster

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I would like for you all to list reasons why Jesus is and isnt historically correct. If he is then how do we know he is who he says he is. I am writing a paper on the matter.

Thank you!
We have written historical accounts by eye witnesses.
 
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stevenfrancis

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I hate to go all cliche on you, but for those graced with faith no further explanation is necessary. For those not graced with faith (yet), no explanation will suffice. I'm not certain what brings God's grace into our lives and makes us believe. For me, it was both an intellectual process, AND a profound spiritual experience. I suspect it had something to do with me specifically seeking it, and always acknowledging it as a possibility. (An open mind and heart), THEN I read the evidence, and prayed, and after 40 plus years of study and prayer, and bumping up against walls, He graced me with an understanding and belief in Him. As far as evidence, it's all there for the open mind and heart to take in. In sacred scripture. In sacred tradition. In Millions of pages of history, textual criticism, discussion, debate. It's there in the Church Fathers. It's there in the Shroud of Turin. It's there in the Eucharistic miracles. No other human being in the history of mankind has had more ink spilled regarding them. The evidence for the Truth of Christ is almost overwhelming in it's depth and scope. Since I've never been full blown "atheist", it's difficult for me to suggest where an atheist would get started. But there are those who have, and I'm sure it's not too difficult to find a few good books on the subject by converts from whatever position you're in. I was a Buddhist who only dabbled in a few sects of Protestant Christianity, and was inspired by a Methodist friend to begin reading scripture in depth. I couldn't find any specific Buddhist to Christian conversion stories, but never the less, an openness to the Gospels, led me to piece to together some things from the scriptures, and study history, and the fathers, and led to not only myself, but my atheist wife to believe in not only the historicity of Christ, but led us together to the very doors of His Church, with the realization that He is the incarnation of the living God on Earth, and the only agent by which man can be saved and justified and brought to eternity with the Father. I will pray for you today, that your interest will lead to His grace flowing into your life, and answering your questions. I'm a little confused that your tag says you ARE Christian. Wouldn't that mean that you have indeed accepted that Christ is Lord to the Glory of the Father?
 
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Hammster

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I mean any evidence on Jesus being a real person, and if so how do we know he was who he says he is. Don't just say there are or are not list them out.
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
 
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awitch

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My understanding is that most academic religious scholars, Christian and otherwise, believe Jesus was an actual person.

As far as any claims regarding divinity, responses here will naturally be biased. Christians will agree he was who he said he was and non-Christians will not.

Spiritual experiences, near death experiences, "having Grace", "being filled with the Holy Spirit", in-story scriptural references, and other fuzzy catchphrases ultimately prove nothing. It's faith because there is no objective, empirical evidence.
 
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Aiden236

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I'm a little confused that your tag says you ARE Christian. Wouldn't that mean that you have indeed accepted that Christ is Lord to the Glory of the Father?

I grew up an atheist but I gave my life to christ when I was 16. Im not asking for my personal curiosity. The holy spirt has solidified that for me in my heart. I am asking basically for help on research. I am writing this basically so I can learn from it ( for evangelizing and help with my mission in Taiwan) and so I can hand it over to my pagan mother which I have been talking to about the subject ever since I became a christian.
Her main struggle now is Christ. I do pray that christ would captivate her in his love.

Thank you Steven
 
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Aiden236

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As far as any claims regarding divinity, responses here will naturally be biased. Christians will agree he was who he said he was and non-Christians will not.
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John

Thats what I'm hoping for. All opinions. When myths about Jesus are presented I want to work through them with the witness accounts in the gospels and so forth.
 
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awitch

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Thats what I'm hoping for. All opinions. When myths about Jesus are presented I want to work through them with the witness accounts in the gospels and so forth.

Just out of curiosity, what is the thesis of your paper?
 
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Aiden236

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Just out of curiosity, what is the thesis of your paper?

My over all purpose is to prove christ through history. I know he is who he says he is because of the spirit inside of me , but honestly I can not take that out of me, ball it up and have some one look at it and go,"I believe". So I wanted something more tangible. I am open to both facts or myths for Jesus and against Jesus.
 
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Hammster

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My over all purpose is to prove christ through history. I know he is who he says he is because of the spirit inside of me , but honestly I can not take that out of me, ball it up and have some one look at it and go,"I believe". So I wanted something more tangible. I am open to both facts or myths for Jesus and against Jesus.
“But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:31‬ ‭NASB‬‬
 
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PloverWing

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The strongest evidence I see for the existence of Jesus as a historical person is the existence of the Christian church. The new religion of Christianity suddenly appeared in the first century AD. Where did the ideas of this new religion come from? It makes sense that there was, in fact, a teacher who taught the ideas of the new religion.

Proving that the Incarnation and the Atonement are true is a much more difficult undertaking.
 
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seeking.IAM

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I have always liked what C. S. Lewis said in Mere Christianity:


"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: “I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.” That is the one thing we must not say. A man who said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell.

You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us.

He did not intend to.”
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I would like for you all to list reasons why Jesus is and isnt historically correct. If he is then how do we know he is who he says he is. I am writing a paper on the matter.

Thank you!

Aiden236, I think one point of entry in considering the presence of Jesus in history can be seen in the ongoing act of Communion. I say this because it represents the historical significance of Jesus' death on the cross in body and blood; from just these two elements we can reflect upon the fact that Jesus was a 'real' person in time.

The line of Communion observance, despite whatever formulation of its nature we now practice, goes straight back to the earliest times of Christian faith. How do we know this? We can project this link in historical causation in that the practice of communion was taking place BEFORE the Gospels were written.

Moreover, we know that Paul wrote his letters before the Gospels came about, and Paul was a part of the Christian body of believers at the time in which the letters were written (~40s to ~60s A.D.) who were celebrating weekly the Lord's Supper.

Even with the above considerations taken alone we can strongly surmise the existence of an ongoing link of our diverse Communion act(s) today with the mid first century. But we can do better still. We can add in that we also know from indications within Paul's writings that Christians had ALREADY BEEN practicing communion for some time BEFORE Paul wrote his letters, and even before Paul himself became a Christian.

So, if the act of communal commemoration of Jesus' death on the cross (and by proxy His resurrection) came about BEFORE the Gospels were written, and BEFORE Paul, Peter, John, and James wrote their respective letters, then we have to strongly surmise that the mandate and commencement for this commemoration didn't just drop out of thin air. It had to have been initiated by a "someone" or "someones" who lived at a time very close to the events with which our various celebrations of communion are now still associated.

And we could bring up the ritual of baptism in Christ as an additional case study, but I'll let you figure out the historical logistics for that one; they're similar to that of communion. Then there's the act of praying and/or testifying publicly in Jesus' name, among other things Christians may have been doing very early on, even IF writing numerous messages ABOUT Jesus wasn't quite one of them, etc. etc. etc.

I hope this little bit, added to what others might share here, will give you something for your paper. :cool:

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Jesus is mentioned in the four Gospels and Paul's letters, which record early traditions of His doings and existence. These likely represent at least four separate accounts, though they are partially dependant upon one another.

There is a corrupted part in the writings of Josephus, the Testimonium Flavium, that records His crucifixion. Likely a Christian redactor has altered the original here from a neutral or negative depiction into a very positive one, but early references to it in Church Fathers and Eusebius point to a legitimate passage.

Tacitus mentions the persecution of His followers and His Crucifixion. Suetonius mentions the Neronian Persecution. Pliny the Younger wrote to Trajan on the Christians and their belief in Jesus as God. Lucian of Samosata satirised Christian beliefs a bit later, but again treated Jesus as a real person.
All these Roman writers clearly speak of Jesus as a historical person condemned under Pilate, and they are all Pagans and Roman. Tacitus' work is based on Roman Annals, and along with Pliny and Suetonius, relatively early independant sources.

The Babylonian Talmud references "Yeshu who hanged from a tree", which may be Jesus.

There is a possible reference in a letter by Mara bar Serapion, a Stoic philosopher, to his son, outlining three unjust treatments of wise men, amongst which he lists the recent "King of the Jews". This may perhaps refer to Jesus, but is a bit of an equivocal connection.
 
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Robban

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I would like for you all to list reasons why Jesus is and isnt historically correct. If he is then how do we know he is who he says he is. I am writing a paper on the matter.

Thank you!

Did you mean to write, "politically correct"?
 
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