LDS Is Jesus White?

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the curse upon Canaan (Ham's son) has been said to be a racial curse. this is because the curse is calling Canaan "the lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers". It is a desperate interpretation to inject race in there and used to justify slavery but perhaps LDS are influenced and/or motivated by the same folklore attached to this verse.

Genesis 9
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: 21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Shem's Blessing and Noah's Death

26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Please read this so I don't have to copy and paste:
Curse of Ham - Wikipedia
 
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klutedavid

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I was wondering what LDS followers believe about this. Is Jesus middle eastern and therefore dark skinned or white in LDS belief?

I know that the pictures of Jesus in LDS church houses are white. So I wondered about this belief.

Thoughts and debate regarding the OP only please. I would like to keep this a scriptural debate:
Jesus existed for eternity before and after His very short earthly life.

Here is what Jesus really looks like.

Daniel 10:5-6
I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

So the real appearance of Jesus is not overly white.
 
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DamianWarS

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Genesis 9
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: 21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. 22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

Shem's Blessing and Noah's Death

26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Please read this so I don't have to copy and paste:
Curse of Ham - Wikipedia
I'm not sure which part you want me to read or why as your position is not actually made known. I know the racial position exists and I'm merely bringing it to the attention of the thread but I myself do not accept it which is why I call it folklore. JS was alive 1805-1844 so it puts him uniquely in a time where this position was more accepted and could be influenced by this type of reasoning, that is under the assumption the book of Mormon is not an inspired text.

The bible itself doesn't explicitly tell us race is a factor when it comes to curses not to mention even if Noah was racially motivated he doesn't actually have the authority to make such a curse. You could argue the descendants of Cannan may have been ostracised by their brothers and perpetuated over time it turned racially motivate if in fact Cannan and his descendants were racially distinct in terms of the colour of his skin but there are a lot of ifs there all which cannot be supported by the text. Because ancient mindsets are very concrete if Cannan did have a distinct colour of skin it probably would have been associated with his curse but the text doesn't tell us this which would suggest his skin colour wasn't important or connected with his curse in any way.
 
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DamianWarS

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See if I got this right... So in the 1800's they believed that Canaan was a racial curse? Which may have influenced Joseph Smith's books? I think that is what I got out of the Canaan study guide.
if we are saying the BoM is not an inspired text then where did Smith get his ideas from? Why would he say the darker the skin the greater the curse? These are not things you just invent and he would have been influenced through his surrounding cultural value system and mindset.

We often look at the New England area where Smith grew up in as anti-slavery but it was still a thing in the early 19th century. It had ended before the civil war and the mindset reversed but when Smith started to get his alleged revelations slavery still existed in the north. A writer writes what he knows so the value system and mores presented in the BoM would reflect the system surrounding him at the time it was written and this interpretation of the curse of Cannan was a popular mindset even if you didn't agree with slavery. Smith liked the folk-Christianity areas and these extra-biblical explanations of anything to do with these early Genesis accounts would have greatly appealed to him and engaged his interests.
 
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devin553344

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View attachment 263673
Mary the mother of Jesus depicted as the Tree of Life
What Does the Virgin Mary Have to Do with the Tree of Life?

1 Nephi 11:13
13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.
1 Nephi 11

I wonder if LDS believe she was born white or if it relates to Post #26 regarding the resurrection? Well if she was white then LDS must believe Jesus is white? And yet as @klutedavid pointed out in post #43 he had bronze arms and feet which doesn't really paint out a white Jesus.
 
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DamianWarS

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Jesus existed for eternity before and after His very short earthly life.

Here is what Jesus really looks like.

Daniel 10:5-6
I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

So the real appearance of Jesus is not overly white.
I view Jesus within the incarnation, not outside of it. Before the incarnation, there is the Word of God then the Word became flesh, still the Word of God but now uniquely Jesus. Danielic prophecies I don't see as Christ in the flesh but rather a vision of Christ so his appearance is probably more about what they mean over actual fleshy representation but even in this any recognizable flesh in these visions probably mirrored the race of Daniel, otherwise, he would have said something.
 
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miggles

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I was wondering what LDS followers believe about this. Is Jesus middle eastern and therefore dark skinned or white in LDS belief?

I know that the pictures of Jesus in LDS church houses are white. So I wondered about this belief.

Thoughts and debate regarding the OP only please. I would like to keep this a scriptural debate:
i think he's darker skinned being middle-eastern.
 
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Ironhold

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Soon after I wrote an article for the Messenger and Advocate, which was published in the April number as follows: --

Joseph's presidential platform would later include a method of ending slavery wherein the government would pay to have the slaves freed:

Presidential Platform - Blacklds.org

In contrast, by the time Joseph made the statement you cited, the abolition movement in the US was beginning to get hot to the point of potential violence.
 
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Ironhold

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What is the purpose of this thread? Is there an agenda where those of the alt-right think Jews should be seem as non-white, or the left where Jews should be seen as white and in league with white nationalists? Or perhaps that Jews are closer to the agenda of blacks than whites rather than the other way around.

It's common for critics of the LDS faith to paint everyone who is a member as somehow being racist.

They'll dig things out from decades past, not bother with investigating the background, and trot it out as "proof" that we're supposed to be oh so racist, never paying any mind to how the church is nowadays and whether or not the past statements have been disavowed.
 
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miggles

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here's the ramesses III's prisoner tiles of hebrews:
220px-Canaanites_and_Shasu_Leader_captives_from_Ramses_III's_tile_collection;_By_Niv_Lugassi.png

so Jesus was probably that color.
 
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devin553344

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It's common for critics of the LDS faith to paint everyone who is a member as somehow being racist.

They'll dig things out from decades past, not bother with investigating the background, and trot it out as "proof" that we're supposed to be oh so racist, never paying any mind to how the church is nowadays and whether or not the past statements have been disavowed.

Woe there, lets not jump to conclusions and resort to accusation. Like I said I was able to procure evidence of teaching I received while I was in fact Mormon. We have the Book of Mormon saying Indians were cursed with dark skin. The Mormon book of Moses saying Cain was cursed also likewise. I quoted Brigham Young and Joseph Fielding Smith as written by them that the curse of Cain shall be removed after the resurrection. Does this indicate that Mormons believe that all will be returned to "white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome"

So I see you have not addressed the OP.

I'm not an expert on what looks "racist". I'm more interested in the curse and lifting of it in the resurrection:

2 Nephi 5:21-23

21 And he had caused the acursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and bdelightsome, that they might not be centicing unto my people the Lord God did cause a dskin of eblackness to come upon them.

22 And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be aloathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.

23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that amixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
 
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Ironhold

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If Mormons in fact believe that Jesus will be returned to white or was white,

I'm not aware of any recent statements on the matter.

like there stated virgin of Mary and he is in fact darker skinned then it challenges their revelations and therefore beliefs.

Since Jesus description points out bronze arms and feet peeking out of his gown when visioned by the book of Daniel. Or the historical middle eastern descent where Jesus came from (the line of David).

This is an issue that's been discussed to death time and time again, even here.

What happened with the Lamanites was an extreme response to an extreme situation.

The "Mark of Cain" debate is something that extends far, far beyond the LDS faith, so it's not just to try and say we're the only ones who did it.

In fact, one of the more irritating parts of the novel "Ishmael" - Ishmael (novel) - Wikipedia - is the author, through the title character, trying to argue that Cain vs. Abel was a metaphor for the rising generation of farmers murdering ranchers for more land... never mind the fact that Genesis declares that the "father of all who dwell in tents" is of the offspring of Cain. It was part of a far larger "black people good, white people bad" narrative throughout the book, and if you ask me the whole thing just came off as being obnoxious by the time it was over with.
 
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We have the Book of Mormon saying Indians were cursed with dark skin. The Mormon book of Moses saying Cain was cursed also likewise.
Sounds more like a culture clash confronting something different than itself and not understanding that humans are humans and not based upon their desire to advance materially, labelling the more earthy types. But that applies to far more than just Mormons. The white race seemed to strive for invention, discovery, and the like but did that make them superior because they came up with the toys other peoples would eventually want? Modern times show how easy it is to shut off the gadgets thus killing billions whereas the 'inferior' will survive having always stuck to the essentials and how to live simply. To accuse those early Mormons of being different than others whose culture of the time was the same, seems rather a bit of an overstretch.
 
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klutedavid

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I view Jesus within the incarnation, not outside of it. Before the incarnation, there is the Word of God then the Word became flesh, still the Word of God but now uniquely Jesus. Danielic prophecies I don't see as Christ in the flesh but rather a vision of Christ so his appearance is probably more about what they mean over actual fleshy representation but even in this any recognizable flesh in these visions probably mirrored the race of Daniel, otherwise, he would have said something.
Your interpretation of the scripture is one of a number of interpretations that have been applied to the scripture. Lacking in historical fulfillment.

I see the eternal king of heaven and earth sitting on His glorious throne. A wonder to behold and He is love itself personified a blinding and brilliant explosion of love that engulfed the universe.

A revelation of love far beyond understanding.
 
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devin553344

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I found this passage regarding teachings of the presidents of the church, Lorenzo Snow:

President Lorenzo Snow also recounted this intense brightness. While walking through the Salt Lake Temple one day with his granddaughter, President Snow told her that he had seen the Lord in the temple. His granddaughter explained: “Grandpa told me what a glorious personage the Savior is and described His hands, feet, countenance and beautiful white robes, all of which were of such a glory of whiteness and brightness that he could hardly gaze upon Him” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Lorenzo Snow, p. 239)

Although it's kinda unclear I think. But may go along with the white Virgin Mary description provided.
 
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