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Is Jesus the Almighty God, Jehovah?

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists-Discussion Zone' started by reddogs, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    There are some who claim that nowhere in the Bible is anyone but Jehovah called the Almighty. That neither Jesus along with the Holy Spirit is ever called that, and that Christ is a created being or Jesus Christ was God's first creation.

    They try to use Colossians 1:15 to claim that Paul’s description of Christ as the first-born of creation means that Jesus was created and thus not eternal, not God. Such a doctrine, however, conflicts with the rest of the Bible. Christ could not be both Creator and created; John 1 clearly names Him Creator and Colossians 1:16 shows the same.

    In a letter to the church at Colossae, the Apostle Paul gives a more entailed description of Jesus. In it, he explained Christ's relationship to God the Father and to creation. Let’s take a careful look at the passage where Jesus is called the first-born.

    Colossians 1:15-21
    King James Version (KJV)
    15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

    Christ’s relationship to His Father begins with the phrase "the image of the invisible God." The word “image,” meaning copy or likeness, expresses Christ's deity. This word involves more than a resemblance, more than a representation. He is God! Although He took on human form, He has the express nature of the Father (Hebrews 1:3).

    The "Word" of John 1:1 is a divine Person, not a philosophical abstraction. In the incarnation, the invisible God became visible in Christ; deity was clothed with humanity (Matthew 17:2). All that God is, Christ is.

    The Bible shows us that Jesus is Lord of Creation. The description "first-born of all creation" speaks of Christ’s preexistence. He is not a creature but the eternal Creator (John 1:10). God created the world through Christ and redeemed the world through Christ (Hebrews 1:2-4).

    Note that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word "first-born" (Greek word "prototokos") signifies priority. In the culture of the Ancient times, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child. First-born referred not to birth order but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership.Therefore, the phrase expresses Christ's sovereignty over creation.

    Finally, the phrase recognizes Him as the Messiah: "I will make Him [Christ] My first-born, higher than the kings of the earth" (Psalm 89:27). Six times the Lord Jesus is declared to be the first-born of God (see Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers.Thus, the phrase "first-born of all creation" proclaims Christ’s preeminence.

    Now lets look at the point made that Jesus is never called the “Almighty” in the entire bible. Let us now turn to Revelation 1:8:

    Revelation 1:8
    I am the Alpha and the Omega, says Jehovah God, the One who is and who was, and who is coming, the Almighty.

    Clearly, he who is Alpha and Omega, and who is also “the Almighty” is “Jehovah God” himself. Now lets look further in the Chapter:

    Revelation 1:12-13
    King James Version (KJV)
    12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

    John sees one “like unto a son of man.” Now notice the context from here on… from verses 14 through 16 he is describing how this “son of man” looked. Now this same son of man says in verses 17 and 18…

    Revelation 1:17-18
    King James Version (KJV)
    17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    We notice, that the “son of man” is the same person who, according to verse 17 and 18, is the “First and the Last” and who also “became dead.” Who else is this but Jesus Christ, who is constantly referred to through scripture as the “son of man” and who “became dead.” You have to say that the one speaking in verses 17 and 18 is Jesus, because you do not believe God can die. Now if it is true that this is Jesus, how is it that he is also called the First and the Last, which is the same as the Alpha and the Omega? And since God is the one claiming to be the “Alpha and Omega” in verse 8, Jesus Christ, who also claims this title in verses 17 and 18, must therefore be the same one who spoke in verse 8. Now this poses a problem because he who spoke in verse 8 said that he is the “Almighty.”

    There is another reason to believe that the one speaking in verse 8 is the same person who speaks in verses 17 and 18. Verse 8 says that Jehovah God is the one… “who is coming.” There is another verse which also shows that God is the one coming found in Revelation 22:

    Revelation 22:6-7
    King James Version (KJV)
    6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

    Take note that it is “Jehovah the God” who is “coming quickly.” Also note that this same Jehovah God, who is coming quickly, sent forth “his angel.” Now read verse 12:

    “Look! I am coming quickly and the reward I give is with me, to render each one as his work is. I am Alpha and Omega, and first and the last, the beginning and the end.” –verse 12.

    Again, reading down from verse 6 through 12 we note that God again says that he is coming quickly, and also that he is Alpha and Omega. Now read the rest of the chapter, and note carefully verse 20, which reads:

    “He that bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes; I am coming quickly.’ Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”

    We now find, that he who we have seen is coming quickly in Revelation 1:8, in Revelation 22:6-7 and in Revelation 22:12, claiming to be the “Alpha and Omega” and claiming to be the one who sends” his angel” is none other then Jesus Christ according to verse 20! Let us now see how it is “Jesus” who” sends forth his angel… Lets look at verse 16:

    Revelation 22:16
    King James Version (KJV)
    16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    So if we understand what scripture shows us we see the following parallels:

    -God claims to be the Alpha and Omega –Rev. 1:8
    -Jesus claims to be Alpha and Omega –Rev. 16-17

    -God is coming quickly –Rev. 1:8, 22:6-7, 22:12
    -Jesus is coming quickly –Rev. 22:20

    -God sends his Angel –Rev. 22:6
    -Jesus sends his Angel –Rev. 22:16

    Now some claim that Jesus has the same title of Alpha and Omega as does the father, because God shares his glory with him. But let us take a look again in scripture in Isaiah:

    Isaiah 48:11
    King James Version (KJV)
    11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

    and then this:

    Isaiah 42:8
    King James Version (KJV)
    8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    If God shares his glory which belongs only to him, how is it that God himself says here in Isaiah 48:11 that he does not share his glory with anyone?

    Since we can clearly see that the one who says he is Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:17-18 is the same one who spoke in Revelation 1:8, and in Revelation 1:8 he calls himself the “Almighty,” isn’t it true then, that despite what some try to claim, that indeed Jesus is called the “Almighty”. And who else is almighty but Jehovah God?
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  2. Nickybobby

    Nickybobby erudite

    1. Yes.
    2. No one
  3. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    Now lets look in the SOP:

    Ellen White wrote in Testimonies Volume 8, a section entitled, “God Revealed in Christ” (pp. 265-266):

    ..As a personal being, God has revealed Himself in His Son. Jesus, the outshining of the Father’s glory, “and the express image of His person” (Hebrews 1:3), was on earth found in fashion as a man. As a personal Saviour He came to the world. As a personal Saviour He ascended on high. As a personal Saviour He intercedes in the heavenly courts. Before the throne of God in our behalf ministers “One like unto the Son of man.” Revelation 1:13. Christ, the Light of the world, veiled the dazzling splendor of His divinity and came to live as a man among men, that they might, without being consumed, become acquainted with their Creator. No man has seen God at any time except as He is revealed through Christ.. (p. 265).

    Here she unmistakingly expresses the full deity of Jesus Christ, particularly in citing Hebrews 1:3. Then we have this:

    ...The Scriptures clearly indicate the relation between God and Christ, and they bring to view as clearly the personality and individuality of each.

    “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten Thee? And again, I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son?” Hebrews 1:1-5.
    God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to His Son... (Testimonies, vol 8, p. 268).

    Then we have this on Revelation 1:

    “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw” (Revelation 1:1-2). The whole Bible is a revelation; for all revelation to men comes through Christ, and all centers in Him. God has spoken unto us by His Son, whose we are by creation and by redemption. Christ came to John exiled on the Isle of Patmos to give him the truth for these last days, to show him that which must shortly come to pass. Jesus Christ is the great trustee of divine revelation. It is through Him that we have a knowledge of what we are to look for in the closing scenes of this earth’s history. God gave this revelation to Christ, and Christ communicated the same to John.

    John, the beloved disciple, was the one chosen to receive this revelation. He was the last survivor of the first chosen disciples. Under the New Testament dispensation he was honored as the prophet Daniel was honored under the Old Testament dispensation.

    The instruction to be communicated to John was so important that Christ came from heaven to give it to His servant, telling him to send it to the churches. This instruction is to be the object of our careful and prayerful study; for we are living in a time when men who are not under the teaching of the Holy Spirit will bring in false theories. These men have been standing in high places, and they have ambitious projects to carry out. They seek to exalt themselves, and to revolutionize the whole showing of things. God has given us special instruction to guard us against such ones. He bade John write in a book that which should take place in the closing scenes of this earth’s history (MS 129, 1905).

    Now some question whether Christ is being relegated to a angel by the text, but Ellen White is commenting on the entire first chapter of Revelation, not just verse one. Notice a three-part chain of transmission regarding the revelation:
    1.Jesus reveives the revelation from God (Rev. 1:1).
    2.Jesus sends his angel who communicates the revelation to John (Rev. 1:1).
    3.John is told to communicate to the churches the things which he saw in vision (Rev. 1:11,19).

    In Revelation 1:9-18, Jesus appears to John personally as the resurrected and ascended Lord. John describes his experience:

    Revelation 1:17-18
    King James Version (KJV)
    17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
    18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    After this personal encounter, John is told to communicate the revelation:

    Revelation 1:19
    King James Version (KJV)
    19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

    Then chapters 2 and 3 record Jesus’ messages to the seven churches. Mrs. White thus reflects what the text says:

    The instruction to be communicated to John was so important that Christ came from heaven to give it to His servant, telling him to send it to the churches. This instruction is to be the object of our careful and prayerful study” (MS 129, 1905; SDABC, vol. 7, p. 953-954).

    Thus, when she says Christ came to John personally to give him instruction, she is referring to Revelation 1:9-19. She is not saying, that Christ is the angel in Revelation 1:1. Further evidence that she did not view the angel of Revelation 1:1 as Jesus Christ is found in The Desire of Ages, where she says this angel of Revelation 1:1 is Gabriel:

    Of Gabriel the Saviour speaks in the Revelation, saying that “He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John.” Revelation 1:1. And to John the angel declared, “I am a fellow servant with thee and with thy brethren the prophets.” Revelation 22:9, R. V. Wonderful thought–that the angel who stands next in honor to the Son of God is the one chosen to open the purposes of God to sinful men (DA 99). Ellen G. White Writings
  4. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

  5. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    Now compare the following:

    Genesis 17:1
    And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

    Speaking to the Jews, Jesus told them:

    John 8:56
    Your father Abraham rejoiced to see MY day: and he saw it, and was glad.

    The Jews were absolutely amazed at what Jesus sad, because Jesus was only in His early thirties, they could not ponder how He possibly have been alive in Abraham’s day, so they reacted.

    John 8:57-58
    57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
    58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

    The Jews understood what was being declared, Jesus equating Himself with the eternal “I AM.” Verse 59 says,

    “Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him…”

    The Jews understood clearly what Christ had said, it was that He was the Almighty God that had walked with Abraham. Then you connect it to the following verse:

    Exodus 6:2-4
    King James Version (KJV)
    2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:
    3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.
    4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

    So now we see it is God Almighty, Jehovah, who spoke to Abraham along with Isaac and Jacob, so Christ was laying claim to being God Almighty, Jehovah.
  6. Robert Bee

    Robert Bee Member

    THEE WORD was always with GOD.. There is no other proof.
    In the BIBLE GOD talking to JOB said "WHERE WERE YOU "
    JESUS said"I do everything through the FATHER that sent me"
  7. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    My favorite is in the Hallelujah chorus.....

    Isaiah 9:6
    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.