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Featured is Jesus still flesh?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by DamianWarS, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    what happened to his flesh?
     
  2. Childofgodharrison

    Childofgodharrison New Member

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    I believe that the flesh do not enter into heaven, We will enter with a heavenly body. And I believe that Jesus is in his heavenly body.
     
  3. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    fair enough... but just before he ascended he had flesh so what do you think happened to this flesh as he entered heaven? Do you think it just sort of disappeared?
     
  4. Childofgodharrison

    Childofgodharrison New Member

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    I believe that it was changed into a heavenly body.
     
  5. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    so you believe flesh changed into spirit
     
  6. Childofgodharrison

    Childofgodharrison New Member

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    1 Corinthians 15:52-53 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
     
  7. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    so you believe that the body Jesus is liken to this imperishable body of 1 Corinthians 15:52-53
     
  8. Childofgodharrison

    Childofgodharrison New Member

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    Yes because the flesh die. In heaven the body has to be one that can live forever.
     
  9. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    That refers to the resurrection of the body.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  10. Childofgodharrison

    Childofgodharrison New Member

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    Still - the mortal with immortality. 2 Corintians 5:1,1 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands.
     
  11. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    The Apostle here talks about our being away from the body and present with the Lord, not the resurrection. In the resurrection the body is raised, and transformed. Even as the Lord was raised and glorified in His flesh.

    "But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power." - 1 Corinthians 15:20-24

    When the Lord returns in glory is when the dead rise, bodily.

    Even as the Lord was glorified in the resurrection, so shall we, as the Apostle writes in Romans,

    "If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you." - Romans 8:11

    Which is why:

    "So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a soulish body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a soulish body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, 'The first man Adam became a living soul'; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the soulish, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

    I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

    'Death is swallowed up in victory.'
    'O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?'
    " - 1 Corinthians 15:42-55

    And also:

    "But our citizenship is in the heavens, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like His glorious body, by the power that enables Him even to subject all things to Himself." - Philippians 3:20-21

    Understand that the Apostle does not mean that material flesh does not share in the life of the Age to Come, but that the present sinful, corruptible, mortal state cannot have a share in that future life, and so we look forward to the Lord's return, He who was raised in glorious, incorruptible, immortal flesh and who reigns at the right hand of the Father shall return, at which time we shall be raised like Him--in the body, physically, with the same glory, imperishability, and immortality.

    We do not transform from "flesh" to "spirit", the transfiguration we receive in the resurrection is not a change from material to immaterial, but from a the sinful, soulish existence we have at present which we have received from Adam to the glorious, transformed existence which is of Christ.

    "Flesh and blood" is an idiomatic expression. See its use in other places.

    Of course Christ is still flesh, because the Lord is a human being. He did not wear humanity like a vestment, but became really and truly human. If the Lord is a human being, then that matters. If He ceased to be human, if He ceased to have flesh then the resurrection is a sham, and our salvation is nothingness.

    But Christ did rise from the dead, and He ascended and is seated at the right hand of the Father, and He will reign until the end when all things have been made subject to Him, and He returns in glory, death defeated when the dead are raised, and God makes all things new. This is our blessed hope. The resurrection of the body and the life everlasting.

    The Apostles' Creed:
    "I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
    Maker of heaven and earth.

    I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
    Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died, and was buried;
    He descended to the dead.
    On the third day He rose again;
    He ascended into the heavens,
    is seated at the right hand of the Father,
    and will come again to judge the living and the dead.

    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy catholic Church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body*,
    and the life everlasting. Amen.
    "

    *Original Latin is carnis resurrectionem, literally, "the resurrection of flesh".

    -CryptoLutheran
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  12. Childofgodharrison

    Childofgodharrison New Member

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  13. JoeP222w

    JoeP222w Well-Known Member

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    As described in the Bible, He laid down His life for His own, through death on the cross.
     
  14. JoeP222w

    JoeP222w Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Jesus was fully man and fully God. He had no sin.
     
  15. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    The Grain (Earthly Body)_ is not the Body that is raised, God Gives a New Body.
    Like an Acorn, the body sown dies and decays like a shell, The Body we receive in resurrection resembles our earthly body as much as an acorn resembles a giant Oak tree.

    His flesh was the only body promised not to decay. this, as the wounds in His body were not Healed, was for evidentiary purposes.
    Unless you are suggesting we too will retain any wounds we may receive in death in our resurrection Body's "Like Christ" did?
    Will those beheaded spend an eternity in a decapitated resurrected Body?
    Does scripture teach our resurrection bodies will be in superior physical condition to Christ's?

    Why did you stop there?
    What is the Sting of Death? What is the strength of Sin?

    56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

    Are we still under the Law of Moses today? Can Sin still Keep us from Heaven like it once could under the Law?

    44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  16. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    What do you suppose happened to His flesh here?

    Luke 24:31
    And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
     
  17. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    The Lord, in His flesh, vanished out of their sight. This is not an argument against the Lord's physicality, this is an argument in favor of the fact that in the resurrection the flesh has been transformed, transfigured, glorified.

    Going back almost five hundred years one of the major disagreements between Lutherans and the Reformed has been the topic of the Eucharist, and it is not merely a debate over the Eucharist, but a debate over Christology.

    Calvin argued that the Real Presence cannot be Christ in His body and flesh present in the Supper, because Christ, being flesh, is limited to being at the right hand of the Father. Therefore the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist must therefore be of a spiritual nature--Christ is spiritually present in the Supper through the faith of the Faithful. Calvin, therefore, argued that when the Lord appears suddenly before His disciples, it is entirely mundane--Jesus must have came in through a back door or open window.

    Luther, and Lutherans, have argued emphatically that what we receive in the Supper is nothing other than the actual, real, flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. We do not say that Christ, therefore, steps down from heaven; but we instead confess that the risen Lord Jesus is not restricted in His glorified flesh. We, therefore, point precisely to the post-resurrection episodes where the Lord appears and vanishes. There is a mystery here, the Lord is not limited by His body the way He was before the resurrection. He has not ceased to be flesh, but His flesh is glorified and therefore He who reigns at the right hand of the Father is also present, bodily and really, in the Holy Eucharist in a way that is incomprehensible to us. He is, truly and indeed, the Lord who fills all things after all (Ephesians 1:23).

    There is something profoundly mysterious going on with the risen Jesus, but it is not because He ceased to be human flesh; it is because He has been raised from the dead.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  18. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    And remember that "natural" and "spiritual" here do not refer to the material of the body, but in what way the body is alive. The Apostle does not contrast physical and non-physical, he contrasts soulishness and spirituality. The body as it is now is a soulish body (soma psuchekos), animated by the animal breath of life; but in the resurrection it is raised a spiritual body (soma pneumatikos), animated and made alive by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11). That is why Paul says the first Adam was made a living soul, and the second Adam became a life-giving spirit. He does not mean that Adam was made of "soul-stuff" and Jesus was made of "spirit-stuff"; he means that Adam was given the animal breath, and Jesus, in the resurrection, has a life that transcends that.

    And, yes, Scripture is abundantly clear that we will receive imperishable flesh like the Lord has, that is exactly what it means when St. Paul says "it is sown perishable" and "it is raised imperishable". The word translated as "perishable" or "corruptible" in Greek means "able to decay". And Scripture is abundantly clear that we will be raised like the Lord, having a body like His, Philippians 3:21 is explicitly clear that when the Lord returns in glory and the dead are raised we shall have a body like His--glorified.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  19. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    So we will retain any wounds we may receive in Death "Like His" body did?
     
  20. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Or perhaps God veiled their eyes.

    His Body prior to the crucifixion could walk on water and pass through hostile crowds untouched, so, while interesting, His appearing and disappearing do not necessarily mandate glorification at that time.

    I agree it is mysterious, I disagree that mandates His being glorified at that time.
     
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