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Featured is Jesus still flesh?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by DamianWarS, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    So?

    If God bends and spreads light around the world, then every physical eye is truly seeing by means of physical light just as anything is ever seen.
     
  2. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Jesus’ body was glorified after His ascension according to Acts 9:3-6 and Revelation 1:13-16 such that it took on a form like that of the Father and the heavenly host. In describing the appearance of God, Ezekiel 1:26-28 reads:

    Above the vault over their heads was what looked like a throne of lapis lazuli, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.

    Jesus’ resurrection body after His ascension into heaven is described with similar radiance and glory according to Revelation 1:13-16:

    [A]nd among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.”

    This OBVIOUSLY is completely different from ANY eyewitness account of His post-resurrection PRE ASCENSION Body. Something clearly, undeniably, Changed at the ascension.
     
  3. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    So your little story about the moon landing hardly answers for "every eye shall see".

    And the folks that happen to be in caves at this time, Or in underground Bunkers, Subway trains, Tunnels, Underwater? How will they see with their eyes the Physical, Human Jesus set foot upon the Mount of Olives at the exact moment He does so?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  4. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    So would "taking a seat at the right hand of the Father" imply you believe the Father is in the flesh too?
    Can't have a "right hand" without it being in the flesh, correct?

    Or, would you agree that the terms "at the right Hand" & "Is seated" are figurative terms describing Jesus' "Positional Authority" as opposed to Physical Location and Bodily contortion?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    This is one of the harder doctrines to wrap your mind around when you take all of scripture into account. For in 1 Corinthians 15:50 it says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
     
  6. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Why do you suppose that God cannot handle a ray of light any way He wants?

    Did you know that human electromagnetic sensors today can see into tunnels and underground?
     
  7. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    My point is that he's trying to discard the concept from one hand while grasping it tightly in the other hand.

    Which you are doing as well.
     
  8. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    And my point is so are you.

    We apparently are all in the same boat.

    Just kinda weird that you are arguing against the boat that you are in with us..
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  9. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    So you are asserting there will be some sort of spiritual component to "every eye shall see", that Men will be given spiritual eyes to see this event or God through some supernatural, non-corporeal means will manifest the "vision" of Christ setting foot on Mt Olivet in every eye of every single person on earth... even the eyes of the Blind?

    Cool.
    Are they powerful enough to see the opposite side of the Planet?
     
  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    If I'm talking about God manipulating light, then I'm obviously talking about "every eye shall see" being a physical activity, not spiritual.

    Yes, actually. We can see underground from the opposite side of the planet.
     
  11. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    this description shows us a man, albeit glorified.
     
  12. oldrunner

    oldrunner Member Supporter

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    This Scripture shows He was not a spirit. His body was a continuation from the old body, But He was also able to defy gravity and pass through walls. We could have the same ability. We can eat, or not. I believe our bodies will assimilate everything we eat with no waste.

    He will shine like the Sun when He returns, like fire, His glory will not be vailed. We will share this "shining", in our new bodies-depending on service in this life. We will be able to operate in the spiritual as well as the physical realm-just like Him.

    So here is how it will go:

    All eyes will see Him means, at His Parousia/coming/when He appears/when He starts to be present in the world, He will be visible to all. It will be a world wide event, as lightning shines from the East to the West. The parchment of Heaven will be pulled back as He circles the globe as the resurrection takes place. Bodies will be coming out of the graves and ascending toward Heaven as the souls that God brings back with Jesus are put back with the new resurrection bodies. :amen:

    It's like a portal that will be opened and the whole Earth will be able to look into Heaven-the third Heaven. Everything will be dark, then light brighter than the Sun will appear! Everyone will be outside because of a massive, world wide earthquake that just took place-cuzz nobody wants to be in a building or underground in a big earthquake. They/we will actually see the throne in Heaven, and the face of God that will terrify everyone who (dwells) on the Earth, and they will be running for cover! But we who love His appearing-and are left, will stand up and lift our arms to Heaven waiting for our God! Then we will be changed in an instant and be taken up after those who died have been resurrected. :clap: :amen: :oldthumbsup: Then the Day of The Lord will start, the one you don't believe will happen. ;)

    Mat 24:27  For as the lightning flashes from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming (Parousia) of the Son of Man.

    Mat 24:30  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 

    Rev 6:12  And I watched when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake took place, and the sun became black like sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood, 

    Rev 6:13  and the stars of heaven fell to the earth like a fig tree throws down its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. 

    Rev 6:14  And the sky was split apart like a scroll that is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved from their place. 

    Rev 6:15  And the kings of the earth, and the most important people, and the military leaders, and the rich, and the powerful, and every slave and free person hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 

    Rev 6:16  And they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 

    Rev 6:17  because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" 

    Mal 3:2  But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: 

    Isa 66:18  "For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory.
    Jesus Appears to His Disciples

    Luk 24:36  Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you." 

    Luk 24:37  But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. 

    Luk 24:38  And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? 

    Luk 24:39  Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." 

    Luk 24:40  When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 

    Luk 24:41  But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, "Have you any food here?" 

    Luk 24:42  So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. 

    Luk 24:43  And He took it and ate in their presence. 


    Dan 12:2  And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. 

    Dan 12:3  Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. 


    The Shining Face of Moses

    Exo 34:29  Now it was so, when Moses came down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the Testimony were in Moses' hand when he came down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone while he talked with Him. 

    Exo 34:30  So when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him. 

    Exo 34:31  Then Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned to him; and Moses talked with them. 

    Exo 34:32  Afterward all the children of Israel came near, and he gave them as commandments all that the LORD had spoken with him on Mount Sinai. 

    Exo 34:33  And when Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil on his face. 

    Exo 34:34  But whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with Him, he would take the veil off until he came out; and he would come out and speak to the children of Israel whatever he had been commanded. 

    Exo 34:35  And whenever the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone, then Moses would put the veil on his face again, until he went in to speak with Him. 
     
  13. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    I sure don’t claim to have any special insight into this very difficult to comprehend concept. But I do have various pictures given to me in the scriptures which I can draw on along with the specific things the scriptures tell us.

    It would take a long time to cover it all even if I understood it all. So I won’t try to.

    But Christ, before emptying Himself in the incarnation, appeared physically as the “angel of the Lord” even as He ministered in the Spirit to others. The prophets of old earnestly sought to know the things the “Spirit of Christ within them” was saying.

    Apparently – after the ascension and glorification – He took that ability again upon Himself and appeared as the angel of the Lord to John.

    He obviously again has the ability to do both – be somewhere and be touched in His body and yet be elsewhere and minister in the Spirit.

    As He told us – it was good that He go away in order that He could once again minister in the Spirit even as He retained His glorified body and was also able to minister in it in one place at a time.

    A similar situation exists regarding angels. They are said to be ministering spirits and obviously they can and do function that way. Yet they have bodies as well – and how - as we can graphically see by reading Genesis 6.

    Being like angels and not marrying, as the Lord said we would be, does not mean that we will not have physical bodies. It does not mean that we will become sexless either- any more than it did for the “Sons of God” in Genesis.

    Bottom lines seems to be that we will be like Him (the angel of the Lord) and be able to do both – be in the flesh and yet in the spirit as well.

    Obviously only a brief sketch – but there’s a few thoughts to put out there anyway.

    P.S.
    Please don't try to get me into a debate by saying that the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 were just men of the Godly line out of Adam. (If they were - they sure had some unusual genes as they produced virtual monsters when they mated with women.)
     
  14. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    More specifically, Seth. ^_^
     
  15. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life A Sinner

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    Hmm. I wonder how he died.
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    I think what Joe was trying to say, is that the flesh of Jesus was sinless.
     
  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    a Man who was also God.
     
  18. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    *Sigh* No. Of course it will be a flesh and blood body that will not die. But it will not be some kind of new mutant flesh whereby we can walk through walls, fly, or shoot lasers from our eyes. It will be essentially the same flesh (not tainted by sin), and it will live forever. Some people like to use the term "glorified body." While the Bible uses the term "glorified," some folks use that term to suggest that our bodies will be totally changed in some way. Some have suggested that we will not even have blood and that we can walk through walls, etc. I don't believe such will be the case. So I am skeptical when somebody says we will receive "glorified bodies." Usually they mean we will not have blood or we will have weird mutant powers or something (like walking through walls).
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  19. oldrunner

    oldrunner Member Supporter

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    That could be. I don't think we could say spirits are blood based. Can we? We can't say 100%, because Jesus could at least appear and disappear and seemed to defy gravity. It could be He was going in and out of the spiritual realm and only looking like He walked through walls? But just reading it, it looks like it.

    The body will be different for sure as Paul points out, but it will be "our" body, or no need for a resurrection of the body. Of course he is talking about the new body having a new "nature", which is spiritual in focus instead of a natural earthy focus. But there is more to it than that. It seems the new spiritual body will be able to operate in both realms, whereas angels- who are of a higher order, were primarily designed to operate in the spiritual realm only. Interesting study for sure! :)


    The Resurrection Body

    1Co 15:35  But someone will say, "How are the dead raised?" and, "With what kind of body do they come?" 

    1Co 15:36  You foolish one, that which you yourself sow is not made alive unless it dies. 

    1Co 15:37  That which you sow, you don’t sow the body that will be, but a bare grain, maybe of wheat, or of some other kind. 

    1Co 15:38  But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own. 

    1Co 15:39  All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 

    1Co 15:40  There are also celestial bodies, and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial differs from that of the terrestrial. 

    1Co 15:41  There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 

    1Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown perishable; it is raised imperishable. 

    1Co 15:43  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 

    1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body. 

    1Co 15:45  So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 

    1Co 15:46  However that which is spiritual isn’t first, but that which is natural, then that which is spiritual. 

    1Co 15:47  The first man is of the earth, made of dust. The second man is the Lord from heaven. 

    1Co 15:48  As is the one made of dust, such are those who are also made of dust; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 

    1Co 15:49  As we have borne the image of those made of dust, let’s also bear the image of the heavenly. 
     
  20. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

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    Jesus says that He was not just a spirit alone and that He had flesh and bones like His disciples had.

    "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39).

    Scripture says Jesus lives to forever make intercession for us (See Hebrews 7:25 also see Revelation 1:18).

    So Jesus still has flesh and blood.

    As for Jesus walking through walls and His ability to fly up into Heaven:

    Short answer is that Jesus is God and we are not. Jesus always was able to do miracles either by the working of the Father, the Spirit or on His own behalf. So we cannot assume we will walk through walls like He did and fly up into the air like He did. Maybe in our angelic bodies after the Rapture we may be able to fly in Heaven, but as physical flesh and blood humans upon the final New Earth, I do not believe this will be the case. I believe God is merely restoring things as they were like in the Garden. God did not make Adam to walk through walls and or to fly. God's intention was for Adam and Eve to be immortal by staying away from the bad tree and eating of the good tree. But they failed the test. Hence, why needed a Savior.

    I am going to need some Scripture to back up this line of thinking. I do not believe that will be the case at all.

    I believe 1 Corinthians 15 is referring to the Pre-Trib Rapture whereby we will receive our spiritual bodies like that of angels and be with Jesus in Heaven (Hence, why 1 Corinthians 15:44 says, "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body."). Of course this spiritual body will only be in Heaven temporarily. For New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven and land on the New Earth. Revelation says the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. I believe this to be those saints who have been taken up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. They will rise from the dead from out of the dust of the Earth and they will have new physical flesh and blood immortal bodies to live with Christ on the New Earth for all eternity. So the saints who are Raptured will have an angelic spiritual body in Heaven for a while, and then they will one day receive physical flesh and blood bodies upon the New Earth (After the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ).

    In other words, there are two resurrections.

    One spiritual (like that of angels), and one being physical flesh and blood.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
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