Is Jesus Christ...........
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Purge187
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"In the beginning was the Word[bless and do not curse][this title describes Jesus], and the Word[bless and do not curse][Jesus][bless and do not curse]was with God[bless and do not curse][the Father and the Holy Spirit], and the Word[bless and do not curse][Jesus][bless and do not curse]was God[bless and do not curse][having the same substance as the Father and the Holy Spirit]. He [Jesus][bless and do not curse]was with God[bless and do not curse][the Father and the Holy Spirit][bless and do not curse]in the beginning[bless and do not curse][when eternity began]. Through him[bless and do not curse][Jesus] all things were made[bless and do not curse][Jesus is the Creator of all life and substance]; without him nothing was made that has been made. . . . The Word[bless and do not curse][Jesus][bless and do not curse]became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We[bless and do not curse][Peter, James and John][bless and do not curse]have seen his glory[bless and do not curse][on the Mount of Transfiguration], the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."[bless and do not curse](John 1:1-3, 14)
Yep.
Yep.
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Interesting. So if he went to be with the Father, he's here, there and everywhere?
So my next questions would be, why would he say he is coming back, if he is already here? And why would he send the Holy Spirit in his stead if he was here?
So my next questions would be, why would he say he is coming back, if he is already here? And why would he send the Holy Spirit in his stead if he was here?
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Maybe Jesus knows something about Himself that we don't know.
Mat 28:19-20
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Joh 14:16-18
(16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
(18) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Joh 14:16-18
(16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
(18) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
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Yes he is the only begotten son of God.
For that we must read the book of John:
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you for ever
John 16:7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
See two things:
- first Jesus said that he will ask the Father to give.
- then Jesus said that himself will send (when he will be Glorified in the heaven).
It is not an error from Jesus of course not, it is because himself is one with the Father and they are not seperate, they are a one God.
You can see the same thing in John 14:26 and in John 15:26.
For that reason when he said that he will come back it is him that we saw before on the earth the son of God/man, the word that will come back.
You ask how is he already here? it is with the Spirit.
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So, the advocate he sent back is him and God the Father with the spirit?
So why do people wait for a second coming if he is here?
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Excellent points.
There are many verses that seem out of place, or even incorrect, when compared to the notion that Christ is omnipresent. I would like to hear an explanation of how those verse work in conjunction with the omnipresent concept.
He's either omnipresent or He's lying in the verse above. I'm interested in hearing an explanation I may be missing.
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If Christ gave them the Holy Spirit as the comforter, is it not acting as Christ. This is the "one" you may be missing. It brings all things to their remembrance. It gives them words to say and write. When Christ is doing the will of the Father, is the Holy Spirit not doing the exact same thing, whether Christ is there or not?
If Jesus said he was going to the Fathers house and stayed here, would he be lying as well? That where he was going the disciples couldn't go...yet.
Yes, you could be missing something.
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Ran77
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My post, which you quoted, asked for an explanation of how the verse given works with the omnipresent concept. I don't see an explanation in your response. Do you have one? Or is your position based entirely upon the faulty either/or scenario you outlined above?
Off the top of my head, I can think of two scenarios that you haven't covered in your post. The first being that those proposing omnipresent scenario are not interpreting the verses they are using correctly. The other is the possibility that this situation involves concepts that are beyond mortal understanding. Neither of them involve God lying about anything. So, I reject your limited option scenario. Life seldom boils down to one of only two options.
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Guys, all I know is Jesus says He is there and always will be. I just believe Him and enjoy a personal relationship with Him, daily. Its really that simple to me.
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But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 2:4-7 NASB)
Since true believers can exist in the here and now, and be currently seated with Christ, the idea of Him being omnipresent is completely understandable. Remember, Christ didn't become a man in the sense that He stopped being God to become a man. Instead, He took on flesh. So if He was omnipresent before, then He's omnipresent now.
Since true believers can exist in the here and now, and be currently seated with Christ, the idea of Him being omnipresent is completely understandable. Remember, Christ didn't become a man in the sense that He stopped being God to become a man. Instead, He took on flesh. So if He was omnipresent before, then He's omnipresent now.
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This is a question I have struggled with for many years, and if we look at scripture closely it can be argued either way based on what verses one withes to use. The problem is we have conflicting verses.
When Jesus told his disciples he was leaving them, he was referring to his physical life. He also told them he would send them the comforter (Holy Spirit), now if he is sending Him that would obviously imply the he is not omnipresent. The other issue is, can He be omnipresent if he chooses to do so, I believe He can be.
In our minds the idea to omnipresent seems impossible, but with God all things are possible.
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Yes. But see if this helps.
Remember Stephen?
Acts 7
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Now a few things.
The OT fathers did not listen to the Holy Spirit that had been working with them all the time. That the law was delivered through the spirit and the prophets of the spirit were killed by the physical. (think John 10:7,8) And that the "Just One" had come to explain the real truth, that they (Jews) were rejecting.
Also, how did Stephen see Jesus? It had to be through the spirit. The Holy Spirit "revealed" Jesus to him in his mind. Had the others looked in the same direction as Stephen, they probably would have seen nothing. It is through the images in the mind that the spirit gives us truth. It is as God wants us to see it, not as man dictates it. Which is why Philips scripture makes sense to me.
Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way. There is a rebirth and an image of rebirth. It is certainly necessary to be born again through the image. Which one? Resurrection. The image must rise again through the image.
Anyone can read scripture and get an image. But he who has the image anointed with the spirit of truth as he is anointed with truth, will see the same message. He who doesn't, gets a confusing message. Which "may" be why we have so many beliefs from one source.
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Before that I continue I like to tell you about a thing that I said:
That is biblical: By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. John 7:39
- For your question about the second coming when he is already here, I think that the answer for your question is like RBPerry said:
and like I said
The Spirit is there today yet the son of man told us that he will come back in glory: Mark 14:62 and Luke 21:27.
What I mean is that it will be in the physical body that the people will see Jesus in the second coming. Yet that is not now, we have the Holy Spirit now that works: in us and through us.
- About your question
Without that we enter in the doctrine of the essence allow me to tell you:
The Father works, the Spirit works and the Son works and it is only a one God. This God is revealed to us in different manners and on different situations according to his plan.
- The Father omnipotent is God: Our Father in heaven; May your holy name be honored; may your Kingdom come... In John 14:8 Philip said, Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us. 10 The words that I have spoken to you, Jesus said to his disciples, do not come from me. The Father, who remains in me, does his own work.
- The neverchanging Word of the Father, The only begotten Son of the Father is God: John 1:1 In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us through his Son.
- The Holy Spirit is God: 1 Corinthians 6:19 Don't you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and who was given to you by God?
This God is who creates everything, it is a One God, the trinity unified in creation.
God revealing Himself is a gift to the ones who love him and to people according to his good will and our good because we are from God, and why can't I try to see God in things around me because the creation did not stop (Philippians 2:13 and John 5:17), we simply don't die as well but we continue to exist as the bible teaches us.
May God bless you.
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