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It came from the early church fathers almost idol-like worship of virginity and extreme demonization of sex - even marital sex. One of them said the ONLY reason God allowed sex within marriage was to make more virgins for the church.This is hugely important. Why do some people treat premarital sex as a sin that's so much more damaging than other sins? Where on Earth did this idea come from that it somehow "ruins" you and makes you dirty in a way that can never be undone? It's something you do, good or bad. It's not something that does something to you.
I'm not questioning the truth of this, but I will say that this argument comes up time and time again, yet I have only met a very small handful of people who think that all sex is dirty, nasty, ugly, etc. So I guess my question is, with so few of people thinking that all sex is some dirty thing, why does the point keep coming up as if it is common place?It came from the early church fathers almost idol-like worship of virginity and extreme demonization of sex - even marital sex. One of them said the ONLY reason God allowed sex within marriage was to make more virgins for the church.
razzelflabben:I'm not questioning the truth of this, but I will say that this argument comes up time and time again, yet I have only met a very small handful of people who think that all sex is dirty, nasty, ugly, etc. So I guess my question is, with so few of people thinking that all sex is some dirty thing, why does the point keep coming up as if it is common place?
My wife and I are 26 and we got married 7 months ago. We were both raised with strong-values, good morals, in conservative-Christian homes. We didn’t live together until after we got married, and we were both virgins when we got married… and we still are…
While we were dating we were often tempted to “go too far” and in these moments of temptation she would say things like “ugh! I love you so much, I want you so bad. I can’t wait until we get married.” But after dating for 3 years our wedding day finally came. Wedding was awesome, everything was perfect! And being a guy, I was looking forward to the wedding night more than anything! We get to our hotel and the moment we walk through the door to our room her demeanor changed and she said, “I’m super tired from the very long day. I had to wake up super early to get everything ready for the wedding. Please don’t make me do anything tonight; I just want to go to bed.” I was crushed, but trying to be the loving, new husband I respected her wishes and we went to bed and slept.
[Back story: since we didn’t live together before getting married we had to get an apartment together, but that wasn’t ready for a week after our wedding. So we stayed in a hotel until our apartment was ready]
Day after the wedding, I make a sexual innuendo to her and she says “I’m just not comfortable doing it for the first time in a hotel room. Let’s wait until we get settled into our apartment.”
I was more crushed than getting rejected on our wedding night because at least that excuse made sense. So I replied, “You’re joking right?! That’s a week away! I don’t want to wait that long!”
Her: “Please, honey? We’ve waited 26 years, what’s one more week?”
I was hurt, shocked, confused, disappointed, dumbfound, and stunned. I mean what happened to my fiancé that was “trying so hard to resist temptation.”
The week went by without as much of getting a glimpse of her in her underwear. We moved in to our apartment together, and there were more excuses. And she said “maybe on our honeymoon.” That came and went. That was more like a vacation than a honeymoon if you catch my drift.
Here we are 7 months later… after 100+ different excuses, and my wife and I still haven’t consummated our marriage. We have had some serious “sit-down” talks about sex over the months. And she finally told me she’s scared (I assumed that after excuse 10, but at least she admitted it). But she blames the church for her fear. She says all her life in youth group, youth church, and her Christian school [associated with her church] that they taught her sex was this filthy, nasty, sinful thing that if you do before married you’re not only sinning, but a huge disappointment. She said that after years of that ideology being drilled into her head, now that’s she married she can’t just flip a switch and be okay with having sex, even if it is with her husband [those are her words, paraphrased].
which context would that be? The OP question or a subcontext I wasn't following?razzelflabben:
The issue is its context, of course.
Blessings.
I truly find the concept of virginity to be one of the most fascinating developments in human culture. The easy answer is that it was a logical step forward once primogeniture was established, since you wanted to know that your sons were legitimate. But this doesn't even begin to explain the full history of attitudes towards premarital sex. Nor does it explain groups like the Gnostics.It came from the early church fathers almost idol-like worship of virginity and extreme demonization of sex - even marital sex. One of them said the ONLY reason God allowed sex within marriage was to make more virgins for the church.
I meant, when it happens; between whom, etc.which context would that be? The OP question or a subcontext I wasn't following?
oh, thanks for the clarification that makes sense....my question however was why is it always an issue in these discussions when it is not the norm? I'm not even saying it shouldn't be mentioned, but it would seem to me that a casual mention is all it deserves in general conversation. More in depth if the person asking is dealing with it. I guess another way to say what I am trying to, is that it seems that a lot of people want to make it sound like everyone who believes in sex for marriage only is saying so because they think sex is dirty, nasty, etc. that is a very poor reflection of the true belief of most and seems rather inflammatory and degrading to those who find sex in proper context to be beautiful, healing, and amazing.I meant, when it happens; between whom, etc.
lol...honestly, I don't even think about it much since I seldom run into people who think that way, but I really like the analogy none the less. Most of the teaching I have come into contact with, both hearing and hearing others talk about what they have been taught, is more along the lines of sex is beautiful in the context of marriage, so I but more focus on that aspect of sex...again, I really like this analogy for those that believe sex is dirty, no matter how few of them there may be.""it seems that a lot of people want to make it sound like everyone who believes in sex for marriage only is saying so because they think sex is dirty, nasty, etc.""
What makes no sense to me is those with that attitude seem to be saying: "sex is a manure-spreader full of cattle waste; so dump it ONLY on the one you love the most."
What a load of !@#$%^
I never thought of that particular analogy before ...lol...honestly, I don't even think about it much since I seldom run into people who think that way, but I really like the analogy none the less. Most of the teaching I have come into contact with, both hearing and hearing others talk about what they have been taught, is more along the lines of sex is beautiful in the context of marriage, so I but more focus on that aspect of sex...again, I really like this analogy for those that believe sex is dirty, no matter how few of them there may be.
Your living under a mistaken notion that virginity matters to God in the sense that most treat it. You are not pure, no one is pure. Anyone who has ever lived except Jesus was ever pure so the fact that religious hypocrites make it sound like a person is less pure than another based on some particular sin is hypocritical and ridiculous.
All that should matter is, are you praying about God leading you in having the right spouse that is for you. If Jesus forgives all sins and does not remember them than how dare anyone judge another for sins that have been paid for and forgotten.
Stop living under the Old Covenant law and live in grace.
Now if you meet someone that you find out is sexually active outside of marriage than that is a whole nother matter. Simply because then you need to consider how committed the other person really is in a relationship. You don't want to marry someone who's idea of marriage is so lax in the area of commitment.
Bottom line...marry who you want to marry. You have several billion people to choose from. I am sure it is possible to find someone that meets your specifications. There are over 200 countries on this earth.
I think it's sad that people think "purity" is determined by whether a person has had sex or not.I don't think it's wrong at all, I think it is wonderful that you value purity. Very important.
If she's practicing "abstinence" she's already had sex. You don't abstain from something you've never done.
Hello Anon,
I understand what you're experiencing, Anon, and remaining a virgin until marriage is something I wish all of us could do. Unfortunately, as you already know, we live in a Fallen World. Not only that, but we live in an age in which the liberation of sexual impulses has been relegated to the status of a social value, which means that this kind of situation will be doubly complex for those of us who wish to remain virgins until we find a comparable mate. Some of the social complexity we find here accounts for why some of your Christian friends don't "understand" or sympathize with you on this issue; probably they've already failed in this department of life and your presence reminds them of this fact each time they see you.
So. What to do about this? First, you're going to affirm that following Jesus has its social price and wasn't meant to be easy (which is why He indicated that we have to "take up our cross daily"). Second, you'll need to construct a protocol for yourself that will require you to ascertain from each and every potential date (or wife) as to their 'sexual status.' Third, realize that because most people fail in the area of 'sexual purity' in today's world, there will be consistent backlash and resentment each time you purposely ascertain their status.
Fourth, and I separate this from the three previous steps for a reason, you will have to realize that even if you find a "sexually pure woman" to marry, this by no means guarantees that you will have a functional, happy, mutually supportive marriage for life. It also does not guarantee that she will remain faithful to you as you both mature in years into your marriage together. Nor does it mean that you will remain free from temptation as you press on into your future years together.
Fifth, and most importantly............realize that the best person for you MAY or MAY NOT be a virgin. Each of us fails in various ways before the Lord, some sexually, some otherwise, perhaps by way of pride, narcissism, arrogance, rage, lack of charity, lack of mercy, lack of graciousness, or a lack of willingness to forgive others. What is your sin by the way? (Do not answer--I ask this rhetorically). The truth is, the desire for a virgin is good and noble, but in the social and spiritual context that Christ has placed us, it may not necessarily be the best or final criteria by which to build a relationship and/or find a wife. I was a virgin until I met and married my wife, but my criteria were focused primarily on the status of her faith, love, and goodness of heart before the Lord. If Christ can forgive someone of their sexual failures, you might find that Jesus will want you to be willing to do something along that line as well. You may also find that a woman who has something to forgive may love you all the more for overlooking her failures and affirming her, as she will likely have to for you in other respects in life. Ask God to help you discern who the BEST person would be for you!!! Ask Him to help you meet her.
Peace
2PhiloVoid
I think that it is a type of purity; not having sex outside of marriage. I believe it's something that God wants us to save for marriage, and I agree that many people don't believe that, so be it. It's just what I believe.I think it's sad that people think "purity" is determined by whether a person has had sex or not.
I think things like compatibility, will the other person be a good provider and/or parent, do I like this person, is this person abusive, does this person have similar goals, etc are more important than where their genitals have been. That's what I believe.I think that it is a type of purity; not having sex outside of marriage. I believe it's something that God wants us to save for marriage, and I agree that many people don't believe that, so be it. It's just what I believe.
Finally, previous behavior is an indication of future behavior. Some research decades ago showed men who slept around before marriage were more likely to cheat after marriage. same is probably true of women.
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