Is it wrong to touch?

[jochanaan]

What did Jesus teach? Incase you forgot here is what Jesus said about adultry, which is the sexual sin that we're talking about here.
Mat 5:27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Mat 5:28But I say unto you,That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

To me, that is just cut-and-dried, plain-talking. If you just look (or think about a woman in your mind) it is the same as you actually doing it!...

Let me make sure I've got this straight. If I merely look at a woman, I've committed adultery with her? If so, I don't see how I can avoid committing adultery many times a day, since here in the United States we don't keep our women in purdah, and if we tried, some of them might say something about it.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her..." Since it's hardly possible to avoid looking or thinking, then the problem is how to look, or think, without lusting. That's why it makes much more sense to define lust as intention rather than casual thoughts or natural curiosity.

 

[jochanaan]

...If you feel guilty, it is sin...

Unfortunately that's not always true. Guilt may also come by parental or societal conditioning. How many young men have felt needless guilt over a normal erection, or a wet dream? How many young women have been conditioned to feel guilty over their own natural desires?

One of the ways the Holy Spirit works with us is to distinguish between true guilt and false guilt. Since the Bible stays silent about masturbation but mentions sexual sins in very specific terms, I would say guilt over masturbation is false guilt.

 

[invisible trousers]

By your logic, which holds that if no one is directly harmed an action is not sinful, there isn't any difference whatsoever. In some cultures, inappropriate behavior with animals is considered no more shameful than masturbation is in ours.

dude, where do you keep pulling this stuff from? i've never said nor implied anything about that. my point was that your view of human sexuality is totally incorrect which means your analogy doesn't hold any water.

Who are you to judge people with zoophilic tendencies?

what?

saying something is gross is not judgement. however, telling people they'll go to hell for masturbating (which has no biblical support) certainly is a judgement.

If you yourself admit that heterosexual partners are not sought out by all people with a high libido, why are you throwing stones at those who choose to act out their inclinations on livestock?

what?

read what i write. calling something gross is not a judgement. if i had said that everyone who has sex with animals goes to hell (much like everyone who masturbates apparently), then that would be a judgement.

likewise, who are you to throw stones and make people feel needlessly guilty over something that's not even mentioned in the bible?

One of the ways the Holy Spirit works with us is to distinguish between true guilt and false guilt. Since the Bible stays silent about masturbation but mentions sexual sins in very specific terms, I would say guilt over masturbation is false guilt.

bingo. besides, artificial guilt is a great way to control people.

 

[micknick]

masturbation is inextricable from lust- it may briefly relieve it but it always comes back. from experience practising masturbation only causes more lust, damages relationships with friends of the oppsite sex and is habit forming. the body becomes reliant on it when we should be relying on God. sexual satisfaction is a desire not a necessity, it should only be sated within marriage, with your spouse.

 

[indra_fanatic]

dude, where do you keep pulling this stuff from? i've never said nor implied anything about that. my point was that your view of human sexuality is totally incorrect which means your analogy doesn't hold any water.

You don't hold to a literal interpretation of Biblical teachings on morality in personal conduct. You don't have a problem with premarital intimacy. You don't have a problem with homosexual relationships. Your very profile indicates that you are "posting while intoxicated". Thus, it isn't surprising you don't have a problem with masturbation. Why are you offended that I merely reiterated your preexisting worldview?

saying something is gross is not judgement. however, telling people they'll go to hell for masturbating (which has no biblical support) certainly is a judgement.

It certainly IS a judgment for you to decide, based entirely on YOUR whims and preferences, that inappropriate behavior with animals is disgusting. According to the dictates of your personal philosophy on sexual morality, all teachings of Scripture, but primarily those in the Old Testament, are no longer binding today. Guess what? There are cultures that find inappropriate behavior with animals more acceptable than masturbation.

 

[invisible trousers]

 

[amx]

masturbation is inextricable from lust- it may briefly relieve it but it always comes back. from experience practising masturbation only causes more lust, damages relationships with friends of the oppsite sex and is habit forming. the body becomes reliant on it when we should be relying on God. sexual satisfaction is a desire not a necessity, it should only be sated within marriage, with your spouse.

Do you believe you experience is the same experience everyone else has? Do you feel is transcends the sexes also?

 

[amx]

Indra-
It's clear that lust is wrong but the bible seems to be silent on masturbation. Why don't we let those with weak conscience avoid it and not try to weaken the consciences of those who are ok with it.

I don't drink and I don't think bars are a place for Christians to be. In fact I don't think Christains should drink publically because it might damage their witness here in this culture. I am not going to trouble myself though if someone has an occasional drink. Even out in public unless the Holy Spirit tells me to say something about it?

But the analogy breaks down at the 'in public part'

 

[micknick]

i believe that unless someone is dwelling on sex lustfully they will feel no need to touch- in guys especially because unless we are thinking about sex and have become aroused we cannot touch, but also for girls

Indra-
It's clear that lust is wrong but the bible seems to be silent on masturbation. Why don't we let those with weak conscience avoid it and not try to weaken the consciences of those who are ok with it.

surely it should be the other way round- by telling people its OK they will do it and then those you deem "weaker" will fall into lustful thoughts. i would say that you are trting to fit the Bible around what you want to believe. the Bible does not directly condemn abortion or human cloning but i still have strong beliefs about their morality based on Christian principles.

 

[jochanaan]

i believe that unless someone is dwelling on sex lustfully they will feel no need to touch- in guys especially because unless we are thinking about sex and have become aroused we cannot touch, but also for girls...

Define "lustfully." I have defined lust as the intention to do sex contrary to God's law, rather than merely imagining it or thinking about it. I have not yet seen that definition challenged, and until I do, I contend that one can think about sex without intending to do it.

 

[micknick]

From dictionary.com:
Lust: Intense or unrestrained sexual craving.

Lust is simply dwelling on sex and desire it- not just the intention to do it.

 

[invisible trousers]

you managed to completely contradict yourself within 2 sentences

 

[mthomas]

The Puritan ethic strengthened the prevailing Patriarchal view that [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] was only to procreate, and you can only do that by having sex with your own wife.

Biologically, a young male develops a full dose of sperm every 72 hours, and it needs to go somewhere, because the "factory" never stops working.

Masturbation doesn't create all the bad psychological outcomes that a previous generation thought up, but the fears that were established are still in the psyches of many.

The greatest blessing of maturbation is that it lessens temptation if regular sex with the spouse is not possible.

The greatest harm in masturbation is that a person can become so accustomed to providing their own satisfaction that they prefer it over working at good sex with their spouse. As soon as they begin "cheating on their spouse, or future spouse" in this way, it becomes wrong.

 

[sally.b]

Biologically, a young male develops a full dose of sperm every 72 hours, and it needs to go somewhere, because the "factory" never stops working.

Isn't that where nocturnal dreams naturally suffice ?

 

[sally.b]

From dictionary.com:
Lust: Intense or unrestrained sexual craving.

Lust is simply dwelling on sex and desire it- not just the intention to do it.

It is great to hear a definition of the word, but as I have asked before I wish we would talk more here about the biblical definition of the word in regards to whatever text is quoted.

For example there are at least 5 different biblical definitions of the word "love" in the bible that I am aware of !!!..... so I think that is why it is so important in this topic to get to the bottom of this issue with the word lust.

I have found from experience that giving one dictionary interpretation of a particular word doesn't always cut it !

....Common aren't there any bible scholars out there that can expound on this ?

I can do a google, but would much prefer to fellowship here !!!

 

[micknick]

you managed to completely contradict yourself within 2 sentences

no- craving is just a stronger word for desire.

Biologically, a young male develops a full dose of sperm every 72 hours, and it needs to go somewhere, because the "factory" never stops working.

yes males are constantly producing sperm but it does not have any effect on health not to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] it. your testicles won't explode your body has means other than masturbation for disposal of excess sperm.

and the greek word translated as lust means to desire or covet strongly, especially something forbidden. this still doesn't imply the intention to act on those desires.

 

[Joykins]

and the greek word translated as lust means to desire or covet strongly, especially something forbidden. this still doesn't imply the intention to act on those desires.

No, but it does imply that they sort of take over your thought life. If a quick [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] makes it go away, it's probably not really that kind of lust.

 

[micknick]

it sates your desires temporarily but they come back stronger, and the more you give in the more frequently they come back. the only permanent solution to the problem is through prayer and the holy spirit.

 

[AwesomeMachine]

When a person has sex alone, they are not alone. There is some love object focused on, which is an object of assumed beauty. The bitterness of a beautiful thing, which in the end is empty, is that it is a lie. Lies open a door to demons. When a person [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], if they are not orgasming with their spouse, they are opening the door to being made love to by demons. So enslaved do people become to these, that they may actually forgo natural intercourse, with a spouse, in favor of making love to demons. This type of enslavement is very difficult to break. When you have demons attached to your sex drive, they are deeply entrenched in your carnal will. This causes the flesh to rise up with pride, shunning the health of the spirit. The physical body then takes over, and lusts of the flesh succeed in destroying the individual. There is only one time sex with yourself is innocent. That is the first time. All successive sessions are based on the first one, and are no longer innocent.

It is possible to control one's self. But, after years of abuse, the body craves abuse. Do not fall for the lie.

 

[indra_fanatic]

No, but it does imply that they sort of take over your thought life. If a quick [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] makes it go away, it's probably not really that kind of lust.

By this logic, if a quick one-night stand takes care of one's cravings for adultery, it must not count as a true wandering eye...