Is it wrong to leave sheep in pits on the Sabbath?

[DamianWarS]

In defence of healing on the Sabbath Jesus uses an example of pulling sheep out of pits (Mat 12) to show that doing good on the Sabbath is lawful. Can we infer from this that it's wrong to leave sheep in pits on the Sabbath? This then demands us to unpack what sheep are.

 

[Soyeong]

Indeed, it has always been lawful to get a sheep out of a pit on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:11), just as it has always been lawful for someone to untie his ox or his donkey from the manger and lead it away to water it (Luke 13:15) or to pull an ox or a son out of a well (Luke 14:5). In Exodus 20:8-11, God commanded to have our livestock rest on the, so God clearly cares for animals, and this is in accordance with obeying His command to keep the Sabbath holy. The Sabbath was never intended to be uses as an excuse to prevent us from doing good, through neither is doing good intended to be used as an excuse to prevent us from keeping the Sabbath holy. In Mark 7:9-13, while they were doing good by offering something to God, they were using doing good as an excuse to avoid honoring their parents, so they were acting as hypocrites who were making void the word of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

In defence of healing on the Sabbath Jesus uses an example of pulling sheep out of pits (Mat 12) to show that doing good on the Sabbath is lawful. Can we infer from this that it's wrong to leave sheep in pits on the Sabbath? This then demands us to unpack what sheep are.

No one is saying we can't heal on the Sabbath, which includes spiritual healing teaching people the gospel as we see the disciples did every Sabbath Acts 18:4 and physical healing which is why doctors are blameless when healing on the Sabbath. The NT is filled with things that are lawful on the Sabbath and how to do good on the Sabbath.

I think Jesus did a pretty good job of explaining what His sheep's are....

John 10: 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

From this verse we know the following...

1. Jesus came do the works of His Father another cross-reference John 6:38 so Jesus and God are not in conflict, and either are their laws, including the Sabbath.
2. Jesus knows His sheep- how does scripture say Jesus knows us? 1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
3. Jesus sheep believe Jesus - there is a case in Hebrews 4 that shows unbelief and disobedience the same- so it's not just a matter of believing in Jesus but doing what Jesus taught. Be doers of the Word James 1:22
4. Jesus sheep hear His voice, and they follow Him- this is a theme throughout scripture that Jesus is our example to follow 1 John 2:6. What did Jesus do.....? He kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and all of the commandment John 15:10 and we are to follow His example.
5. If we do these things- believe in Jesus and obey, follow Him and hear His voice and do what He did as our example, which is the perfect way to live and the will of the Father we have assurance of eternal life.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

In defence of healing on the Sabbath Jesus uses an example of pulling sheep out of pits (Mat 12) to show that doing good on the Sabbath is lawful. Can we infer from this that it's wrong to leave sheep in pits on the Sabbath? This then demands us to unpack what sheep are.

Pikuach Nefesh....the preservation of life ranks above Sabbath observance.

 

[RDKirk]

Probably the need is to go back to how God defines "work" compared to how it came to be defined by the mavens and Pharisees.

Paul arrived at a definition that fits Jesus' use of the word:

Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. -- Romans 4

As testified in other places as well, "work" is an action that creates an obligation upon an employer to pay a wage. Work is not maintenance of what one has, but an effort to gain more, to get ahead, to make a profit.

The mavens and the Pharisees had gone too far in their interpretation of "work." Jesus reeled them back in.

 

[DamianWarS]

Indeed, it has always been lawful to get a sheep out of a pit on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:11), just as it has always been lawful for someone to untie his ox or his donkey from the manger and lead it away to water it (Luke 13:15) or to pull an ox or a son out of a well (Luke 14:5). In Exodus 20:8-11, God commanded to have our livestock rest on the, so God clearly cares for animals, and this is in accordance with obeying His command to keep the Sabbath holy. The Sabbath was never intended to be uses as an excuse to prevent us from doing good, through neither is doing good intended to be used as an excuse to prevent us from keeping the Sabbath holy. In Mark 7:9-13, while they were doing good by offering something to God, they were using doing good as an excuse to avoid honoring their parents, so they were acting as hypocrites who were making void the word of God.

You missed the question of the OP. I'm not presenting an argument to dismiss the Sabbath so please don't take it to those lengths. The question is if it's wrong to leave sheep in pits on the Sabbath which unless I misunderstood your post you didn't address this.

Here is a scenario:
1. A sheep is trapped in a pit on the Sabbath
2. You see that the sheep is trapped in the pit
3. You leave the sheep in the pit until the Sabbath is over to rescue it.

Although we know it is good to pull the sheep out even if it's the Sabbath is it wrong to dismiss or delay the rescue of the sheep because it's the Sabbath? Or put another way is it our duty to rescue fallen sheep on the Sabbath? Since we know the motivation is "doing good", as doing good is lawful, is it then our duty to do good on the Sabbath?

 

[DamianWarS]

No one is saying we can't heal on the Sabbath, which includes spiritual healing teaching people the gospel as we see the disciples did every Sabbath Acts 18:4 and physical healing which is why doctors are blameless when healing on the Sabbath. The NT is filled with things that are lawful on the Sabbath and how to do good on the Sabbath.

I think Jesus did a pretty good job of explaining what His sheep's are....

John 10: 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

From this verse we know the following...

1. Jesus came do the works of His Father another cross-reference John 6:38 so Jesus and God are not in conflict, and either are their laws, including the Sabbath.
2. Jesus knows His sheep- how does scripture say Jesus knows us? 1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
3. Jesus sheep believe Jesus - there is a case in Hebrews 4 that shows unbelief and disobedience the same- so it's not just a matter of believing in Jesus but doing what Jesus taught. Be doers of the Word James 1:22
4. Jesus sheep hear His voice, and they follow Him- this is a theme throughout scripture that Jesus is our example to follow 1 John 2:6. What did Jesus do.....? He kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and all of the commandment John 15:10 and we are to follow His example.
5. If we do these things- believe in Jesus and obey, follow Him and hear His voice and do what He did as our example, which is the perfect way to live and the will of the Father we have assurance of eternal life.

I missed the answer in all that. Is it wrong to knowingly leave sheep in pits on the Sabbath?

 

[DamianWarS]

Pikuach Nefesh....the preservation of life ranks above Sabbath observance.

Define life? Does this include spiritual life? What does pulling spiritual life out of spiritual pits looks like?

 

[DamianWarS]

Probably the need is to go back to how God defines "work" compared to how it came to be defined by the mavens and Pharisees.

Paul arrived at a definition that fits Jesus' use of the word:

Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. -- Romans 4

As testified in other places as well, "work" is an action that creates an obligation upon an employer to pay a wage. Work is not maintenance of what one has, but an effort to gain more, to get ahead, to make a profit.

The mavens and the Pharisees had gone too far in their interpretation of "work." Jesus reeled them back in.

a definiton of "work" is not the goal of the op. No one has actually addressed the op explicitly. is it wrong to neglect or delay the rescue of sheep trapped in pits on the sabbath? Or put another way is it our duty to rescue sheep trapped in pits on the Sabbath? Once we figure that out then we can define what sheep are and what is involved with pulling them out of pits.

 

[HIM]

In defence of healing on the Sabbath Jesus uses an example of pulling sheep out of pits (Mat 12) to show that doing good on the Sabbath is lawful. Can we infer from this that it's wrong to leave sheep in pits on the Sabbath? This then demands us to unpack what sheep are.

Let's not make this more than what it is. It is about doing good to someone or something in your sphere of influence when they or it need it on the Sabbath. It is bad not to good anytime. A Christian should reflexively be in a state of doing good all the time.


Matt 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Matt 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

 

[RDKirk]

a definiton of "work" is not the goal of the op. No one has actually addressed the op explicitly. is it wrong to neglect or delay the rescue of sheep trapped in pits on the sabbath? Or put another way is it our duty to rescue sheep trapped in pits on the Sabbath? Once we figure that out then we can define what sheep are and what is involved with pulling them out of pits.

The only reason that question exists is because God forbade work on the sabbath. So the first thing to understand is "What did God actually forbid?" We don't need to know what sheep are, because the focus of the law is on work, not on sheep.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Define life? Does this include spiritual life? What does pulling spiritual life out of spiritual pits looks like?

That is what He meant when He said His Father is always working so He is also always working... John 5:17

 

[DamianWarS]

We know rescuing sheep on the Sabbath is good and doing good is lawful on the Sabbath. This is revealed by Christ so I'm sure we can all agree on the explict examples before we spiritualize them or give them more definition.

Its clear if physical sheep are stuck in physical pits then It is good to rescue them. But does this mean implicitly it is wrong to delay their rescue because of the Sabbath or put in another way is it our duty to pull sheep out of pits on the Sabbath?

If this is too difficult to answer in the spiritual than before we define the spiritual or expand on their physical conterparts lets stay in the physical. Is it wrong to leave physical sheep in physical pits on the Sabbath?

Once we establish that then we can expand on things like what sheep and pits are and what is involved with pulling them out. But I'm not sure why we need to define work/rest to establish if it's wrong to leave sheep in pits on the Sabbath.

 

[DamianWarS]

That is what He meant when He said His Father is always working so He is also always working... John 5:17

So people are more valuable than sheep (as Jesus explictly says) and spiritual life is of more value than the physical and this is the work of Christ (if I understand you correctly) you've jumped to the spiritual which is fine but the question still remains, is this work our duty? Or are we excused from it during the Sabbath?

 

[RDKirk]

We know rescuing sheep on the Sabbath is good and doing good is lawful on the Sabbath. This is revealed by Christ so I'm sure we can all agree on the explict examples before we spiritualize them or give them more definition.

Its clear if physical sheep are stuck in physical pits then It is good to rescue them. But does this mean implicitly it is wrong to delay their rescue because of the Sabbath or put in another way is it our duty to pull sheep out of pits on the Sabbath?

If this is too difficult to answer in the spiritual than before we define the spiritual or expand on their physical conterparts lets stay in the physical. Is it wrong to leave physical sheep in physical pits on the Sabbath?

Once we establish that then we can expand on things like what sheep and pits are and what is involved with pulling them out. But I'm not sure why we need to define work/rest to establish if it's wrong to leave sheep in pits on the Sabbath.

Notice that the issue came up again when Jesus' disciples "harvested" a bit of grain from the fields to eat on the Sabbath, which was not done when the Israelites were supplied with manna in the wilderness.

The law was not about sheep. It was not about wheat. It was not about manna.

The law was about work on the Sabbath.

 

[Bob S]

The only reason that question exists is because God forbade work on the sabbath. So the first thing to understand is "What did God actually forbid?" We don't need to know what sheep are, because the focus of the law is on work, not on sheep.

Are you able to imagine a person living in the Israelite nation, on the Sabbath, falling in a pit breaking his leg and being unable to climb out? All the Israelites that see the person in the pit tell him to be calm and after sun down we will come and get you out. The Israelites had to interpret the fourth commandment. Should we take all those valuable hours by rounding up all that is needed for someone to get in the pit to splint the leg then be willing to work to lift the man out of the pit and take him to someone who could provide care? After all the command does not tell us we can break Sabbath by doing something good on the day we are to keep our feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as I please on the holy day, the day I call the Sabbath a delight and the Lord’s holy day honorable, and if I honor it by not going my own way and not doing as I please or speaking idle words, only then will I find my joy in the Lord.

Are you able to imagine those passing by were gentiles who were not under the Sabbath restriction? Would there be any questions as to whether they should wait till sundown?

I thank the Lord that He gave the Israelites a new and better covenant and included Gentiles in the covenant, so that no one to ever has make that decision.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So people are more valuable then sheep (as Jesus explictly says) and spiritual life is of more value than the physical and this is the work of Christ (if I understand you correctly) you've jumped to the spiritual which is fine but the question still remains, is this work our duty? Or are we excused from it during the Sabbath?

Doing good is always good... Matthew 12:12, Mark 3:4

 

[DamianWarS]

Doing good is always good... Matthew 12:12, Mark 3:4

Agreed. But is avoiding good wrong? Luke 10:25-37 tells us passing by is not loving your neighbour which should implicitly be the same on the Sabbath. This parable highlights the 2 greatest commandments as its motivation with an explict focus on how we treat others.

Indeed viewing these passages together still points to these 2 greatest commandments but again Christ' focus is about how we treat others which can be inferred by how he calls people more valuable than sheep and through his act of healing.

So what's the heuristic here because everyone seems to scared to call it out? At the very least doing good is more noble than rest. So is this our duty? Or can it wait until the Sabbath is over?

 

[DamianWarS]

Are you able to imagine a person living in the Israelite nation, on the Sabbath, falling in a pit breaking his leg and being unable to climb out? All the Israelites that see the person in the pit tell him to be calm and after sun down we will come and get you out. The Israelites had to interpret the fourth commandment. Should we take all those valuable hours by rounding up all that is needed for someone to get in the pit to splint the leg then be willing to work to lift the man out of the pit and take him to someone who could provide care? After all the command does not tell us we can break Sabbath by doing something good on the day we are to keep our feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as I please on the holy day, the day I call the Sabbath a delight and the Lord’s holy day honorable, and if I honor it by not going my own way and not doing as I please or speaking idle words, only then will I find my joy in the Lord.

Are you able to imagine those passing by were gentiles who were not under the Sabbath restriction? Would there be any questions as to whether they should wait till sundown?

I thank the Lord that He gave the Israelites a new and better covenant and included Gentiles in the covenant, so that no one to ever has make that decision.

Indeed Luke 10:25-37 also confirms passing by is not loving our neighbour and this should be no different on the Sabbath.

if we can agree leaving people (or sheep) in physical distress when we can help is wrong (on or off the sabbath) then can this extend to the spiritual? For those in spiritual pits they themselves are unable to get out ofohow do we pull them out?

This points to loving your neighbour and showing them Christ but the act of doing this is quite fluid and may look like a lot of things that would otherwise be restricted on the Sabbath like mowing someone's yard. Mowing someone yard does not help someone in physical distress but it may help them in spiritual distress. Is spiritual distress a worthy enough cause and is the work involved to pull them out lawful?

 

[Bob S]

Indeed Luke 10:25-37 also confirms passing by is not loving our neighbour and this should be no different on the Sabbath.

if we can agree leaving people (or sheep) in physical distress when we can help is wrong (on or off the sabbath) then can this extend to the spiritual? For those in spiritual pits they themselves are unable to get out ofohow do we pull them out?

This points to loving your neighbour and showing them Christ but the act of doing this is quite fluid and may look like a lot of things that would otherwise be restricted on the Sabbath like mowing someone's yard. Mowing someone yard does not help someone in physical distress but it may help them in spiritual distress. Is spiritual distress a worthy enough cause and is the work involved to pull them out lawful?

Ever wonder if the Christian organization we belong to is the real truth? According to John in 1Jn3:19-24 we belong to the truth if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

Love is everlasting, knows no bounds and is the great theme of the new covenant between God and all mankind. Love is the thing that causes us to do kind thing to our fellow man. Love is what makes us want to pull that person out of the ditch any day. Love doesn't make us think whether it is a legal thing to do