jimmyjimmy

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Vocation isn't the same as temptation. Nor is temptation usually carefully discerned, tested, submitted to outside scrutiny, and prayed over, in the way vocation is. It's not a reasonable comparison.

And really, a Godwin, on this topic... being compared to Hitler is a new one even for me. :doh:

It is temptation for women, because it violating God's law and design, so it is a fair comparison.

Also, I didn't compare *you* to Hitler. I compared your flawed method of doing right based upon feelings.
 
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woobadooba

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yes exactly,

Paul was an apostle who like the prophets of old spoke the Words of God(ephesians 2:19-20 ephesians 3:4-7, 2 peter 1:19-21, 2 thessolonians 2:15)

so unless you're going to say that some parts of scripture are not God breathed(2 timothy 3:16-17), then Paul's command as an apostles is all that is required.
So you believe the Bible is verbally inspired by God, as in every word in it came directly from God (including punctuation)?
 
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Paidiske

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It is temptation for women, because it violating God's law and design, so it is a fair comparison.

Also, I didn't compare *you* to Hitler. I compared your flawed method of doing right based upon feelings.

Well, the violation bit is arguable. Hence the endless arguments about it...
 
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Paidiske

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What are jots and tittles?

A jot is the name of the least letter of an alphabet or the smallest part of a piece of writing. It is the Anglicized version of the Greek iota - the smallest letter of the Greek alphabet, which corresponds to the Roman 'i'. This, in turn, was derived from the Hebrew word jod, or yodr, which is the the smallest letter of the square Hebrew alphabet. Apart from its specialist typographical meaning, we still use the word jot more generally to mean 'a tiny amount'. Hence, when we have a brief note to make, we 'jot it down'.

A tittle, rather appropriately for a word which sounds like a combination of tiny and little, is smaller still. It refers to a small stroke or point in writing or printing. In classical Latin this applied to any accent over a letter, but is now most commonly used as the name for the dot over the letter 'i'. It is also the name of the dots on dice. In medieval calligraphy the tittle was written as quite large relative to the stem of the 'i'. Since fixed typeface printing was introduced in the 15th century the tittle has been rendered smaller.

(From here: 'Jot or tittle' - the meaning and origin of this phrase)

They don't refer to punctuation; the original manuscripts of the Scriptures had none.
 
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Dave-W

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But if Paul had the power to create a law, such as women can't speak in church, why did he say we were under no law?
Why are you changing what Paul said? He said we are not under the MOSAIC law.
 
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Senkaku

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@-57 read acts 18 in context of the verse, they were correcting his theology...so my question to you is, did you read the next verse? also, note what I pointed out, the key word being "they" without making a distinction of only one of them correcting him. This passage serves as an issue for this topic considering it wasn't a time where scriptures just shows a woman teaching, but actually correcting a man's theology.
 
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Dave-W

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Paul was NOT giving his own opinion, he was teaching God's will.
Then why did he not rebuke his friends Priscilla and Aquilla for letting Priscilla teach Apollos?
 
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S.O.J.I.A.

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So you believe the Bible is verbally inspired by God, as in every word in it came directly from God (including punctuation)?

there was no 'punctuation' or chapter divisions when scripture was originally written(FYI).

the Words given to the church through the apostles through word or epistle were indeed inspired the Holy Spirit of God(God breathed).
 
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Dave-W

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This, in turn, was derived from the Hebrew word jod, or yodr, which is the the smallest letter of the square Hebrew alphabet.
Since there were no "J" sounds anywhere in the world before the year 1000, the letter was (and is) called Yud, To us it looks like an apostrophe.
A tittle, rather appropriately for a word which sounds like a combination of tiny and little, is smaller still. It refers to a small stroke or point in writing or printing. In classical Latin this applied to any accent over a letter, but is now most commonly used as the name for the dot over the letter 'i'. It is also the name of the dots on dice. In medieval calligraphy the tittle was written as quite large relative to the stem of the 'i'. Since fixed typeface printing was introduced in the 15th century the tittle has been rendered smaller.
Such things did not exist in Aramaic script. (which is the basis for the modern block alphabet used in Hebrew)

But since the lettering was hand-drawn, consider the "tittle" to be something like a serif - the little tangs on certain fonts. This graphic compares serif and non-serif fonts:

upload_2017-8-1_9-56-34.png


The parts circled in red are serifs.
 
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woobadooba

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there was no 'punctuation' or chapter divisions when scripture was originally written(FYI).

Yes, I knew about the punctuation. No need to insert the condescending "FYI". I studied biblical Hebrew in college.

the Words given to the church through the apostles through word or epistle were indeed inspired the Holy Spirit of God(God breathed).

The following verse clearly shows that Paul is not giving a command of God, but rather a personal belief, which he supposed was good because of the times of distress.

1 Corinthians 7:25-27 NKJV "Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife."

"yet I give judgment" sounds similar to "I do not permit a woman to teach" (1 Tim. 2:12a).

More can be said regarding the meaning of inspiration, but for the sake of not derailing the thread, I will refrain. I think I've made my point.
 
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-57

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@-57 read acts 18 in context of the verse, they were correcting his theology...so my question to you is, did you read the next verse? also, note what I pointed out, the key word being "they" without making a distinction of only one of them correcting him. This passage serves as an issue for this topic considering it wasn't a time where scriptures just shows a woman teaching, but actually correcting a man's theology.

The point wasn't if I read the next verse or not.

The point was a lot of people are guilty of presenting a theological view with out even considering the next verse and why Paul wrote to Timothy what he wrote.

You just can't snip a portion of the Bible and present it out of context. The whole thought must be looked at.
For instance some here posted it was a cultural issue...if you read on, you discover it wasn't.
 
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-57

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If Jesus could trust a woman to deliver the most important news of all (the Resurrection), I think He can trust them to deliver sermons on Sunday morning. My opinion: preach on, sister!

How does that stack up against the following verse...where Paul mentions Adam and Eve?
 
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woobadooba

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How does that stack up against the following verse...where Paul mentions Adam and Eve?
Just because Paul mentioned Adam and Eve when making his point, it doesn't mean his command to forbid a woman to teach was devoid of cultural ties.

As for the thought of a woman not having authority over a man, I am in full agreement with that. But it's important to identify what Paul meant by "authority".

It seems to me that there is more to the idea of a woman not being permitted to teach. Something was going on at the time that was not appropriate, which moved Paul to speak out against it in this way. It's our task to find out what it was.
 
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RDKirk

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Women do have authority over men, though. Women who launch businesses, women who are bosses, women who are elected. Women always had authority over men - queens ruled men with the same power that kings did.

And God used women who had command to give messages to men too - Deborah in the Old Testament. In the middle ages, it was the fact that she was God's messenger that gave Joan of Arc the authority such that she was given command over men.

This thread is clearly not about secular world relationships and not even OT relationships, but relationships within the Body of Christ.
 
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RDKirk

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If it's okay for women to talk in church, and I think it is, why shouldn't they be allowed to preach?

I think you're talking to someone else with that question. If you're going to direct questions to me, please at least read what I have written.
 
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-57

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Just because Paul mentioned Adam and Eve, it doesn't mean his command to forbid a woman to teach was devoid of cultural ties.

Where is the cultural tie link in the Bible? Is that something we add to justify women preaching...or should we look more toward the reason why Paul wrote it? Why did Paul include Eve?

The point of my post was to show how we who post here...not everyone..post opinion as if it were the gospel....leaving out a discussion as to why Paul wrote Timothy about it. In other words, they "argue" over 1/2 a thought.
 
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RDKirk

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Then why did he not rebuke his friends Priscilla and Aquilla for letting Priscilla teach Apollos?

He allowed Priscilla to "expound the gospel" to Apollos. Priscilla did not take Apollos as her disciple.

My point is that "preaching" is nothing more than "expounding the gospel" and is not the authoritative relationship that Paul understood taking a disciple to be--and "teaching" in his understanding meant "taking a disciple," which was a strongly authoritative relationship.
 
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