Is it Wrong for Women to Preach in Church?

[woobadooba]

"Did God really say..."

(Gen 3:1)

Wrong context.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Not at all...

...throughout history the world has tried to place a question mark where God has placed a period.

 

[woobadooba]

...throughout history the world has tried to place a question mark where God has placed a period.

OK, I get that. Please show us where God Himself said, "I do not permit a woman to teach."

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

1 Timothy 2:12

Paul was speaking with God authority. It makes no difference whether God Himself said or not.

 

[dreadnought]

1 Timothy 2:12

Paul was speaking with God authority. It makes no difference whether God Himself said or not.

But if Paul had the power to create a law, such as women can't speak in church, why did he say we were under no law?

 

[woobadooba]

1 Timothy 2:12

Paul was speaking with God authority. It makes no difference whether God Himself said or not.

I see Paul saying, "I do not permit a woman to teach..." I don't see God saying that. Can you prove Paul wasn't speaking according to his own cultural belief? Can you prove God commanded him to say what he said? If not, you don't have a case.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I see Paul saying, "I do not permit a woman to teach..." I don't see God saying that. Can you prove Paul wasn't speaking from a personal belief? Can you prove God commanded him to say what he said? If not, you don't have a case.

It doesn't matter. God, if he wished, could establish a commandment through Paul's personal belief. What we do know is that Paul was speaking with the authority of God in those epistles.

But if Paul had the power to create a law, such as women can't speak in church, why did he say we were under no law?

He didn't.

 

[Waggles]

What are your thoughts about women preaching in church?

Wrong. Unscriptural. Offends scriptures concerning family structure and responsibilities.
Children are to obey their parents. Wives are to support their Husbands. Husbands (and fathers) are
to love their wives and to bring up their children through teaching the gospel.
Jesus Is the head of the father/husband and the family just as he is the head of the Church.

But unbelief and wilfull disregard for both scripture and the wisdom of God is just so trendy
and with it these days.
If you defend the word of God and his purpose for marriage and family one is condemned as being
old fashioned, backward, extreme, bigotted, and so on.

 

[RDKirk]

Paul tells us we are under no law, and then creates a law that women are not allowed to talk in a church. Paul is a great man, and we have much to learn from him, but I take my cue from Jesus, who told us to love our neighbors as ourselves.

First, you have set up a strawman argument. I don't think anyone in this thread has proposed or is arguing "women are not allowed to talk in church."

The issue has been, "preaching" from the OP, which needs clarification of whether one means "teaching" or "prophesying" or "expounding the gospel" -- three very different things.

Paul's only law is this:

Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. Romans 14

Therefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. 1 Corinthians 8

And this is merely a corollary to:

Love your neighbor as yourself.

If we remember again what it meant in Paul's time to be a disciple under the complete authority of a master--something we don't even do in congregations today--it makes perfect sense that he would not mix the sexes in such a relationship, but have men disciple men and women disciple women.

 

[woobadooba]

Wrong. Unscriptural. Offends scriptures concerning family structure and responsibilities.
Children are to obey their parents. Wives are to support their Husbands. Husbands (and fathers) are
to love their wives and to bring up their children through teaching the gospel.
Jesus Is the head of the father/husband and the family just as he is the head of the Church.

But unbelief and wilfull disregard for both scripture and the wisdom of God is just so trendy
and with it these days.
If you defend the word of God and his purpose for marriage and family one is condemned as being
old fashioned, backward, extreme, bigotted, and so on.

So you think it is an act of rebellion against God for a woman to give a sermon in a church?

Note: a woman doesn't have to be a pastor to preach in a church.

 

[Brokenhill]

Paul was NOT giving his own opinion, he was teaching God's will.
As you mentioned,1 Timothy 2:12 notice vs 13 and 14...Paul appeals to creation to prove his point. Jesus does the same thing in Matthew 19 when correcting the Jews about marriage and divorce...Jesus uses the creation account to restore true marriage, regardless of what the Parasite culture was at that time.
Today, women have a very valuable role in the church, and they are equal in salvation and stance with God, but they should not be exercising authority over men in the church. Scripture is more than clear on this topic.

 

[Brokenhill]

So you think it is an act of rebellion against God for a woman to give a sermon in a church?

Note: a woman doesn't have to be a pastor to preach in a church.

It's rebellion to willingly disregard God's teaching. If a woman is aware of these verses and chooses to exercises authority over men in the church she is rebelling. If she is ignorant of those verses then she is not willingly rebelling but she is still in the wrong.

 

[woobadooba]

they should not be exercising authority over men in the church.

You equate preaching a sermon in a church with exercising authority over a man?

 

[woobadooba]

It's rebellion to willingly disregard God's teaching. If a woman is aware of these verses and chooses to exercises authority over men in the church she is rebelling. If she is ignorant of those verses then she is not willingly rebelling but she is still in the wrong.

Do you also feel the same way about women authors who write books about Jesus? Do you feel that only women should read their books? And what about women in colleges and universities who teach Bible classes, do you think they should be fired from teaching?

 

[RDKirk]

You equate preaching a sermon in a church with exercising authority over a man?

Of course, in my posts I have been explaining the distinction between the gift of prophesy and the authoritative offices such as elder and--strictly in the 1AD context--teaching.

A "teacher" in Paul's understanding was what we might call today a sensei. "Wax on, wax off!"

What people call "teaching" and "preaching" today is what Luke described as "expounding the gospel."

Last Sunday we had a guest preacher. This preacher had absolutely zero authority in our congregation, so it really made no difference whatsoever whether he was male or female--the preacher did nothing but "expound the gospel."

Whether we agree or disagree on the proposition of women having authority over men in the Body of Christ, the first point is that expounding the gospel is not an implication of authority.

 

[woobadooba]

expounding the gospel is not an implication of authority.

I agree.

 

[Friend-of-Jesus]

Let me ask this, does God contradict Himself?
My answer: No.
We know from His word that WE can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. Phillipians 4:13. "All things" would that not include women preaching? There is no stipulation to this verse such as "all things through Christ...oh, unless you're a woman who desires to preach. Girls have cooties". I mean no disrespect, just bringing a bit of humor.
God's word all says Nothing is impossible with God. Again, there is no fine print with this verse either stating..."EXCEPT..if you're a preaching woman. Men only. Go home and knit something." No, All things are possible with God. I don't personally believe God views me or any woman to be any less capable than any man. He certainly doesn't love me any less. Bless me any less.
Maybe it was Paul's personal opinion. I really don't know. But I have offered mine and any offense I may cause is unintended. My opinion is just my opinion. I respect that others may not share my view.

All things are possible with God doesn't mean everything is allowed for human beings.

 

[Strong in Him]

OK, I get that. Please show us where God Himself said, "I do not permit a woman to teach."

And where did Jesus teach this?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Women. . . feel themselves led to preach.

[bold mine]

Therein lies the problem.

 

[Strong in Him]

It's rebellion to willingly disregard God's teaching. If a woman is aware of these verses and chooses to exercises authority over men in the church she is rebelling.

God gives authority, and in many cases the church recognises that.
If a woman stood up in the middle of the sermon and said, "I'm taking over this sermon; you don't know how to preach." THAT would be challenging, and taking authority over, a male preacher. But a woman who says, "I have been praying and I believe God wants me to preach", submits to men to have that call tested, is trained by men and who has the permission, authority and prayerful support of the whole church before being licensed as a preacher in that church; all of this being done in prayer - is not rebelling against anyone or trying to grab authority by force.

If she is ignorant of those verses then she is not willingly rebelling but she is still in the wrong.

It is not wrong to answer God's call.