Is it Time to Talk About Violent Christian Extremism?

Aussie Pete

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It's "probably" not true that the Quran considers Christians to be "infidels" / "kafirs," although some Muslims believe it does. What you say in the rest of your message is true.
If the Qu'ran does not consider Christians to be infidels, why are they persecuted? Look up Michael Yousef, born in Egypt and raised a Coptic Christian. He will disagree with you. I spoke to a refugee advocate a while ago. She dealt with Afghan refugees. She was explaining about euthanasia, a hot topic in Australia. One of the Afghans said, "In Afghanistan, just say that you are a Christian. Someone will shoot you".
 

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hedrick

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It is true that overwhelming majority of white evangelicals voted for Trump in 2016. But, my understanding is that they voted mostly against Hillary and that they signed the ballots with a grain of salt. In 2016, Trump received 62,984,825 votes.
The problem with this is that they also supported Trump in 2020. 2020 Faith Vote Reflects 2016 Patterns. So it wasn't Hillary. In 2016 a few evangelicals said that they voted for Trump knowing he was a disaster because abortion overruled everything else. But at least in CF, conservative members have generally defended most of Trump's activities. So I'm not convinced it's that simple. They have also generally supported past Republican presidential candidates. There really are two different cultures in the US, with different ideas of the role of government, and for that matter different ideas of what the Gospel is (and for that matter, different ideas of how to decide what is true).
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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But at least in CF, conservative members have generally defended most of Trump's activities.
I was ardently anti-Trump when he was first elected, yet I found myself defending him, here. It was an ironic twist. I had a lot of cognitive dissonance from that one. The cause of it was that, although I disliked Trump as a person, I still found that most of the criticism against him was for the things he actually did right.

We've got a much bigger problem than Trump on our hands.
 
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Magnanimity

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I don't know where he gets 74 million Muslims from

Sorry about that, I was trying to interweave various ideas but I see I was just unclear. So the 74M is a reference to the total number of votes that Trump received in the 2020 election. It has no reference to Muslims. So when Maher says let’s not confuse 5K with 74M, he is making the statement that the actual number of extremists (like people willing to storm a capitol) among overall Trump voters is tiny. Then I alone (not Maher) made the analogy with Islam—that extremists willing to do violence in the name of Islam comprise a minuscule number of the nearly 2B Muslims worldwide.

Oh, and the reason people are afraid to say what they really think of Islam, at least publicly, is that they don't want one of those headstones.

Maher himself is an example of a public figure who has frequently and repeatedly talked smack about Islam. He’s done so alongside atheist Sam Harris and on separate occasions on his show. If you do a YouTube search of “Maher Islam” you’ll see what I mean. And yet, he and Harris continue to live, as yet not slain by Muslims.

Have you ever listened to any of the “Great Courses”? I recommend the one on Islam by professor John Esposito. I listened to it recently. Also his article here on Islam and violence is quite good. There have been violent Muslims today and in the past, as there have been violent Christians and Jews. But trying to pin this on the religion itself is a serious mistake. Worldviews aren’t to blame for violent extremism.

Politico suggested that we tend to give violent Evangelicals a pass while being quick to point out other groups that are violent. I don’t love that approach because it still gives credence to the idea that worldviews/religions create violent people, which seems clearly enough to be not just false, but absurd.
 
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Andrewn

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The problem with this is that they also supported Trump in 2020. 2020 Faith Vote Reflects 2016 Patterns. So it wasn't Hillary. In 2016 a few evangelicals said that they voted for Trump knowing he was a disaster because abortion overruled everything else. But at least in CF, conservative members have generally defended most of Trump's activities. So I'm not convinced it's that simple.
No, it's not that simple.

I have Evangelical friends who voted for Trump with skepticism in 2016 and with enthusiasm in 2020. Trump was not their type of Republican in 2016.

What did Trump do in his 4 years to increase their level of enthusiasm? He appointed judges, which is one thing they wanted. He supported Evangelical organizations, which is another thing they wanted. He did not believe in science, just like they did not. He believed in America's isolationism and exceptionalism like they did. The one nation that God himself blessed with a covenant and blessed for supporting Israel.

Were abortion laws actually change? No. Did Christian value become mainstream? No. Did he fight for Americans that were dying of Covid? No. Did he show humility and compassion, which are supposed to be Christian values? Absolutely not.

The fact that a lot of those participating in Jan 6th insurrection were veterans unfortunately underlines the fact that Trump somehow incited a nationalist form of Christianity. There are others and there is us, people chosen by God for prosperity.

Does this sound like Predestinationism? :)
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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Most of these comments so far are entertaining, yet way off in reality. Looking at jan 6, flip it around. If you think jan 6 was a bad thing, then you’re saying that our govt is good and that life in general is good. If you believe that, then you dont understand what conservatism is about nor the groups involved with jan 6.
Right now, we arent hearing much from the right, and its due to planning for the future, but also a desire to become hidden. Mccarthyism is alive and well right now, and its consuming anyone associated with the right. And that is the scary part.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Sorry about that, I was trying to interweave various ideas but I see I was just unclear. So the 74M is a reference to the total number of votes that Trump received in the 2020 election. It has no reference to Muslims. So when Maher says let’s not confuse 5K with 74M, he is making the statement that the actual number of extremists (like people willing to storm a capitol) among overall Trump voters is tiny. Then I alone (not Maher) made the analogy with Islam—that extremists willing to do violence in the name of Islam comprise a minuscule number of the nearly 2B Muslims worldwide.



Maher himself is an example of a public figure who has frequently and repeatedly talked smack about Islam. He’s done so alongside atheist Sam Harris and on separate occasions on his show. If you do a YouTube search of “Maher Islam” you’ll see what I mean. And yet, he and Harris continue to live, as yet not slain by Muslims.

Have you ever listened to any of the “Great Courses”? I recommend the one on Islam by professor John Esposito. I listened to it recently. Also his article here on Islam and violence is quite good. There have been violent Muslims today and in the past, as there have been violent Christians and Jews. But trying to pin this on the religion itself is a serious mistake. Worldviews aren’t to blame for violent extremism.

Politico suggested that we tend to give violent Evangelicals a pass while being quick to point out other groups that are violent. I don’t love that approach because it still gives credence to the idea that worldviews/religions create violent people, which seems clearly enough to be not just false, but absurd.
You plainly know little about Islam. The only "peace" it offers non-Muslims is in the cemetery. Of course, that's when they are not killing each other. I suggest you read a few of Lorica Lady's posts. Your rosy view of Islam may change. Also check out this link:

World Watch List - Open Doors Australia
 
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TJB

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You plainly know little about Islam. The only "peace" it offers non-Muslims is in the cemetery. Of course, that's when they are not killing each other. I suggest you read a few of Lorica Lady's posts. Your rosy view of Islam may change. Also check out this link:

World Watch List - Open Doors Australia

Have you looked at Sufism?
 
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nolidad

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"For two decades, the U.S. government has been engaging with faith leaders in Muslim communities at home and around the world in an attempt to stamp out extremism and prevent believers vulnerable to radicalization from going down a path that leads to violence.

"Now, after the dangerous QAnon conspiracy theory helped to motivate the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, with many participants touting their Christian faith — and as evangelical pastors throughout the country ache over the spread of the conspiracy theory among their flocks, and its very real human toll — it’s worth asking whether the time has come for a new wave of outreach to religious communities, this time aimed at evangelical Christians."

It’s Time to Talk About Violent Christian Extremism

I've often thought of White Supremacists as equivalent to Islamic Supremacists. The question is why are White Supremacists coming out of the closet now? Are Evangelical Christians involved in Supremacist violence? And, whether true or not, do non-Christians think so? Are they coming to get us, as some believe?

christian violent extremism, should never be terms used together.

In america Christians have a right to voice their opinion, but we serve a divine not earthly government, so what cesar is in power should never cause Christians to rise to violence.
 
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Magnanimity

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You plainly know little about Islam.

You couldn’t have gathered that from my replies here. But sure, there’s always a ton to learn about any massive and successful world religion like Islam.

The only "peace" it offers non-Muslims is in the cemetery. Of course, that's when they are not killing each other.

This is the language of Islamophobia. There are some (small number) of violent Muslims. Somewhere along the line, they got radicalized. But, as we’ve all seen, Christians are perfectly capable of being radicalized too. There simply isn’t enough data to interlink radicalization with religiosity. The daily existence of non-violent religious folks the world over should be enough for us to draw this conclusion by ourselves.

Sure, some white Americans will become mass-shooters, and maybe they’ll be Evangelicals to boot. Just as some Muslims in this world will interpret jihad as more than just the internal struggle we all daily face. They’ll wage literal war on perceived enemies. But the ongoing, daily peaceful existence of literally billions of Christians and Muslims should be enough to dissuade us from trying to establish some tight causality between the radicals’ religious beliefs and their violent actions. There are simply far too many (>99%) who are peaceful to make such a linkage.

If it’s illicit to make the leap from the existence of a few capitol rioters to thinking that all American Trump-voters must be capable of violent rioting, so too with religion. It’s equally illegitimate to go from a few examples of violent religious folks to drawing conclusions about the over 4B Christians and Muslims in this world.
 
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aiki

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"For two decades, the U.S. government has been engaging with faith leaders in Muslim communities at home and around the world in an attempt to stamp out extremism and prevent believers vulnerable to radicalization from going down a path that leads to violence.

And has been pathetic in the effort and its results. Any Muslim who embraces Sharia Law is an extremist, approving of women and non-Muslims as second-class citizens, of polygamy, of the murder of homosexuals and those who leave the religion. And so on. The vast majority of Muslims world-wide are solidly in favor of Sharia Law.

"Now, after the dangerous QAnon conspiracy theory helped to motivate the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, with many participants touting their Christian faith — and as evangelical pastors throughout the country ache over the spread of the conspiracy theory among their flocks, and its very real human toll — it’s worth asking whether the time has come for a new wave of outreach to religious communities, this time aimed at evangelical Christians."

If Christians have embraced the QAnon conspiracy theory - or the Marxist-Communist BLM movement, or the tribalizing, divisive, anti-Christian doctrines of Critical Theory, or post-modernist philosophies, or the "progressive" version of Christianity - they do so because they have become juvenile in their faith, in the understanding of the foundational doctrines of the Christian religion, encouraged to compromise with the World in a multitude of different ways, embracing a Self-centered Christianity rather than a Christ-centered one that demands the daily crucifixion of Self.

A "new wave of outreach" is not what is needed but a return to biblical Christianity, to the crucified life of fellowship with, and service to, Christ, and an inflexible, uncompromising adherence to divine truth and holiness.

I've often thought of White Supremacists as equivalent to Islamic Supremacists. The question is why are White Supremacists coming out of the closet now? Are Evangelical Christians involved in Supremacist violence? And, whether true or not, do non-Christians think so? Are they coming to get us, as some believe?

Are white supremacists "coming out of the closet"? The MSM would be delighted if you thought so and they are working hard to make you think this is the case, but, in reality, the far, far greater threat American society faces is the Marxist-Communist ideology permeating every strata of the society and growing quickly militant in the society. If Americans understood just how horrendous people become under Communism, how destructive Communism is to the liberties, peace and safety they presently enjoy, they would rise up en masse tomorrow and cast out every person who has espoused it from a political, media, or academic office.

If Christians are involved in supremacist violence they have a profoundly skewed idea of what it means to be a Christian. How have they come to adopt such a skewed view? Answering this question would probably do far more good than wondering if some Christians hold supremacist views.

The MSM and the political figures pulling their strings from the shadows don't want to remediate Christians (which is to say, conform them to their way of thinking) but to make the entire Christian community seem suspicious and dangerous. The more the general public associate Christians with supremacist thinking and conduct, the more they are linked with Islamic terrorists, the more the general public can be persuaded by the MSM - without concrete evidence, just innuendo and suggestion - to resist and marginalize and, in the end, oppress Christians.
 
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A.ModerateOne

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Maybe I need my head examined. I've stopped looking at news or listening to commentators or politicians trying to keep my blood pressure under control. But, as an old fashioned Particular Baptist (Calvinist), and a son of the Confederacy, I shall make a few points on why I not only voted for Donald Trump in 2016 and gave monetary support, but more eagerly voted for him in 2020 and gave even more $$.

In tuning in to watch Trump announce his run in 2015, I did so pretty much as a lark, for fun. But, in context, with me was my closest and dearest friend who is like a son to me is an immigrant from China who struggled for 12 years becoming an American citizen because he loved this Republic and wanted to experience the freedom in this great land of opportunity. So, the first thing I noticed was his intention stop the illegal invasion of our country across our southern border, and I had watched my friend jump through their many hoops to become a citizen legally, so I want illegal entry and continued residency of illegals stopped. I had other, earlier bad experiences with the illegals also.

I then saw how the American news media immediately began to tell lies and half-truths about things Trump said and I sat and watched his speeches and rallies so I know what he said and recognized the lies of the media. As a justified, born from above child of God; I certainly never viewed Trump as a regenerated Christian, but Cyrus who God called his anointed was used of God in the OT, so to me if what Trump wished to do was good for Christian believers, I supported that. For those of us who know we were founded and guaranteed by the Constitution as a "Republic" NOT a mob rule democracy, he was good for us as well. He was our man. The alternative, a female who endorses the killing of a baby at nine months was certainly NO option for a Christian and in 2020, the bumbling, senile candidate was no option either.

About the Charlottesville incident, if I had still been in Virginia I'd have been in Charlottesville to protest removing statues to our history and to the south. I am a son of the Confederacy because I had two ancestors fight for the south in the War Between the States. I boil with disgust when I hear the SBC speak of the "sin of slavery" and disown their very founding fathers. God Almighty alone defines sin by his law and nowhere from cover to cover in the Bible is slavery ever called sin; it was regulated. The religious idea of slavery as sin is another case of religious humanism, and it is well described by a Lutheran, who is not a southerner!

Slavery, Humanism, & the Bible

I will add here, I refuse to sing that humanistic piece of garbage "Battle Hymn of the Republic" and if you think it is biblical read about it:

Is 'The Battle Hymn of the Republic' Biblical? | The Berean Test

I happen to be what may be called an ethnocentrist, because I believe the culture developed in America by the Puritan Work Ethic and reliance on biblical principles to have produced the finest culture the world has ever seen, and it happened to be white since it was largely of Anglo-Saxon and north European ethnicity. I write pen pals all around the world and it is amazing what ignorance they have of what is happening here in the USA, but more amazing is the number of people who actually believe the news media who live here! Many I write live in African countries, and it is clear what happened once the Europeans left it to the Africans. My pen pals admit their leaders are corrupt to the core and in history their tribes raided each other and made slaves of them. Looking about the world, it does not take long to realize that the form of government our founders gave us made us exceptional, it is undeniable; but the corruption in our country is fast destroying that exceptionalism. We are certainly under the judgment of God almighty! Isaiah 3:9-12 about Israel... just pray to be among the righteous or innocent in v10. Yes, that was ancient Israel, but history does repeat itself and it is the people of God, who are Israel today, have been a salt, a sanctifying influence in the USA, and if the salt loses its savor....

The media lies about who got the tax breaks raises my BP also. I'm on a low level Fixed Income in retirement but my Federal Income taxes dropped $500 and my friend who is an IT worker had his taxes drop $2000. I had my health insurance coverage jerked around and attempts to make me change my doctor 3 times during Obama, my health coverage has been stable under Trump even with serious health issues. Gas here was $2.18 before Biden took office, it is now $2.49 and that will not just increase our private car cost, but add to everything we buy. Oh, if I get the $1400 to go with the $600 previously received, I will add another American Gold Eagle to my investments to bring metals up to 10% of my portfolio. The USA can't continue spending what it does not have... it has to break sometime.

I'll close my response by admitting, Trump is not my type of friend I'm comfortable to be around and I did not agree with everything he did, but, I consider what he got done was better for the country than what any have done since I first began voting in 1964. I'll add, I'm not a Qanon nut, I definitely did not identify with those right-wing evangelicals and frauds hovering around him either. This is my total two cents on the thread.
 
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A New Dawn

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"For two decades, the U.S. government has been engaging with faith leaders in Muslim communities at home and around the world in an attempt to stamp out extremism and prevent believers vulnerable to radicalization from going down a path that leads to violence.

"Now, after the dangerous QAnon conspiracy theory helped to motivate the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, with many participants touting their Christian faith — and as evangelical pastors throughout the country ache over the spread of the conspiracy theory among their flocks, and its very real human toll — it’s worth asking whether the time has come for a new wave of outreach to religious communities, this time aimed at evangelical Christians."

It’s Time to Talk About Violent Christian Extremism

I've often thought of White Supremacists as equivalent to Islamic Supremacists. The question is why are White Supremacists coming out of the closet now? Are Evangelical Christians involved in Supremacist violence? And, whether true or not, do non-Christians think so? Are they coming to get us, as some believe?

With almost a million people gathered in Washington, DC, on January 6th, only a handful of people, both Trump supporters and Antifa, participated in a riot at the Capitol and now the left is trying to suggest that the problem is Christian Trump supporters. I have to disagree with that assessment. It has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with their political activism. The peaceful 99.5% of the people gathered there are just collateral damage, right? The unfortunate but minuscule amount of damage and loss of life at the Capitol riot (compared to the 6-month-long summer riots, cities burning and 40 people killed last year by the alt-left has nobody crying in panic or living in fear, or so the left postulates) has people like AOC cowering in her closet (or so she claims) while nobody was even near her and fearmongering to spread her hatred of the right, as well as the other lovely leftist representatives who want to throw Trump supporters into concentration camps. IMO, it is not the far-right extremists who are the problem. But I digress.

To answer the question, yes, white supremacists should be dealt with. The alt-left should be dealt with in like manner. Anyone who breaks the law should receive just punishment for the crime they commit, but this tendency of the left to lump all of Trump supporters and Christians into the same boat as the white supremacists is getting old.
 
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A.ModerateOne

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Maybe I need my head examined. I've stopped looking at news or listening to commentators or politicians trying to keep my blood pressure under control. But, as an old fashioned Particular Baptist (Calvinist), and a son of the Confederacy, I shall make a few points on why I not only voted for Donald Trump in 2016 and gave monetary support, but more eagerly voted for him in 2020 and gave even more $$.

In tuning in to watch Trump announce his run in 2015, I did so pretty much as a lark, for fun. But, in context, with me was my closest and dearest friend who is like a son to me is an immigrant from China who struggled for 12 years becoming an American citizen because he loved this Republic and wanted to experience the freedom in this great land of opportunity. So, the first thing I noticed was his intention stop the illegal invasion of our country across our southern border, and I had watched my friend jump through their many hoops to become a citizen legally, so I want illegal entry and continued residency of illegals stopped. I had other, earlier bad experiences with the illegals also.

I then saw how the American news media immediately began to tell lies and half-truths about things Trump said and I sat and watched his speeches and rallies so I know what he said and recognized the lies of the media. As a justified, born from above child of God; I certainly never viewed Trump as a regenerated Christian, but Cyrus who God called his anointed was used of God in the OT, so to me if what Trump wished to do was good for Christian believers, I supported that. For those of us who know we were founded and guaranteed by the Constitution as a "Republic" NOT a mob rule democracy, he was good for us as well. He was our man. The alternative, a female who endorses the killing of a baby at nine months was certainly NO option for a Christian and in 2020, the bumbling, senile candidate was no option either.

About the Charlottesville incident, if I had still been in Virginia I'd have been in Charlottesville to protest removing statues to our history and to the south. I am a son of the Confederacy because I had two ancestors fight for the south in the War Between the States. I boil with disgust when I hear the SBC speak of the "sin of slavery" and disown their very founding fathers. God Almighty alone defines sin by his law and nowhere from cover to cover in the Bible is slavery ever called sin; it was regulated. The religious idea of slavery as sin is another case of religious humanism, and it is well described by a Lutheran, who is not a southerner!

Slavery, Humanism, & the Bible

I will add here, I refuse to sing that humanistic piece of garbage "Battle Hymn of the Republic" and if you think it is biblical read about it:

Is 'The Battle Hymn of the Republic' Biblical? | The Berean Test

I happen to be what may be called an ethnocentrist, because I believe the culture developed in America by the Puritan Work Ethic and reliance on biblical principles to have produced the finest culture the world has ever seen, and it happened to be white since it was largely of Anglo-Saxon and north European ethnicity. I write pen pals all around the world and it is amazing what ignorance they have of what is happening here in the USA, but more amazing is the number of people who actually believe the news media who live here! Many I write live in African countries, and it is clear what happened once the Europeans left it to the Africans. My pen pals admit their leaders are corrupt to the core and in history their tribes raided each other and made slaves of them. Looking about the world, it does not take long to realize that the form of government our founders gave us made us exceptional, it is undeniable; but the corruption in our country is fast destroying that exceptionalism. We are certainly under the judgment of God almighty! Isaiah 3:9-12 about Israel... just pray to be among the righteous or innocent in v10. Yes, that was ancient Israel, but history does repeat itself and it is the people of God, who are Israel today, have been a salt, a sanctifying influence in the USA, and if the salt loses its savor....

The media lies about who got the tax breaks raises my BP also. I'm on a low level Fixed Income in retirement but my Federal Income taxes dropped $500 and my friend who is an IT worker had his taxes drop $2000. I had my health insurance coverage jerked around and attempts to make me change my doctor 3 times during Obama, my health coverage has been stable under Trump even with serious health issues. Gas here was $2.18 before Biden took office, it is now $2.49 and that will not just increase our private car cost, but add to everything we buy. Oh, if I get the $1400 to go with the $600 previously received, I will add another American Gold Eagle to my investments to bring metals up to 10% of my portfolio. The USA can't continue spending what it does not have... it has to break sometime.

I'll close my response by admitting, Trump is not my type of friend I'm comfortable to be around and I did not agree with everything he did, but, I consider what he got done was better for the country than what any have done since I first began voting in 1964. I'll add, I'm not a Qanon nut, I definitely did not identify with those right-wing evangelicals and frauds hovering around him either. This is my total two cents on the thread.

I erred in the link I posted for the Battle Hymn of the Republic. The link I intended is this one:

https://rediscoveringthebible.com/BattleHymn.html
 
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dzheremi

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Yes, it is time to talk about it, and when we do so, we must be clear that such things are an abuse of the name of Christ and bring shame and revulsion into the peoples' understanding of the lifegiving cross, no different in that specific respect than when the KKK burn it with whatever sick understanding they have while they are doing that.

White supremacy, 'Christian' or not, needs to die, and it is even more grievous a wound upon the flock (of all colors and backgrounds) when it wraps itself in the Bible, the Cross, and other central parts of the Christian faith. To my mind, this stuff as a political movement (to be separated in our approach to it from the 'rank and file' who may get wrapped up in it, as no one is beyond redemption -- they can be reached, and repent) deserves no less a response from all Christians than was given to the God-mutilator Arius from the mouth of the Church herself: you and your belief are anathema to the Christian faith, and so we bar you from association with us, as you are commended to Satan by your own choice. (Just as the heretic is self-condemned; Titus 3:10-11)
 
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It seems to me that most on here would say that what our Founders did to give us our freedoms made them bad people. Our Founders fought very violently to give us freedom, and did things that would make jan 6 look like a boyscout jamboree.
You can still serve God AND fight for freedom at the same time i believe.
 
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ChristServant

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You couldn’t have gathered that from my replies here. But sure, there’s always a ton to learn about any massive and successful world religion like Islam.



This is the language of Islamophobia. There are some (small number) of violent Muslims. Somewhere along the line, they got radicalized. But, as we’ve all seen, Christians are perfectly capable of being radicalized too. There simply isn’t enough data to interlink radicalization with religiosity. The daily existence of non-violent religious folks the world over should be enough for us to draw this conclusion by ourselves.

Sure, some white Americans will become mass-shooters, and maybe they’ll be Evangelicals to boot. Just as some Muslims in this world will interpret jihad as more than just the internal struggle we all daily face. They’ll wage literal war on perceived enemies. But the ongoing, daily peaceful existence of literally billions of Christians and Muslims should be enough to dissuade us from trying to establish some tight causality between the radicals’ religious beliefs and their violent actions. There are simply far too many (>99%) who are peaceful to make such a linkage.

If it’s illicit to make the leap from the existence of a few capitol rioters to thinking that all American Trump-voters must be capable of violent rioting, so too with religion. It’s equally illegitimate to go from a few examples of violent religious folks to drawing conclusions about the over 4B Christians and Muslims in this world.

You clearly know nothing of Islam and have not read any of the koran. Doesn't surprise me though, a catholic defending Muslims and Islam because they are very silmilar. Look around the world now and see how many Christians are killed by muslims and how many muslims are killed by christians. This forum is becoming more antiChristian all the time. Islam is satanic and opposite to Christianity.

Peace be to all those who are in Christ.
 
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RDKirk

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I tend to agree with Bill Maher that all of these folks (from Islamic terrorists to Evangelical white supremacists are the fringes of their overarching cultures). Maher's past extreme and unfortunate comments about Muslims notwithstanding... They are not the mainstream, nor are they anything approaching a majority. They are, rather, a small (though vocal and active!) minority. As Maher said in this video, "let's not confuse 5,000 people with 74 million."

Here is a difference...that might not be a difference (I'll have to think about it a bit).

Those Islamic extremists who present a terrorism danger to the West are practically all Wahhabist. Every terrorist act committed in the West in the past 50 years has been by Wahhabists.

Wahhabism is in some ways a minority in Islam because most who are Wahhabist won't admit it even exists. You can tell who is not a Wahhabi because people like Shiites and Sufis will tell you outright that Wahhabis are crazy as bat guano...but if a Muslim denies that Wahhabism exists...he is a Wahhabist.

The secret, though, is that Saudi Arabia is the primary proponent of Wahhabism (Egypt is second), and their outreach into the Western world is powered by their oil money. They fund the masjids, they build the mosques, they pay imams in the prisons. That's why their doctrine is so invasive. Western intelligence agencies know this...but the Saudi money is just too good to the politicians.

That is why when surveys of Muslim attitudes are taken, you find most Muslims in the West will repeat the hard-like Wahhabi opinions they were taught...(such as agreeing by a vast majority that an artist who depicts Muhammad should be executed) even if they don't follow those opinions themselves.

But, the percentage of 2020 Trump voters who would riot and storm the capitol? Miniscule. They must be opposed, but let's not exaggerate about their numbers (any more than we should exaggerate about violent Muslims).

That's kind of like saying the percentage of whites who ever lynched blacks was miniscule or the percentage of Muslims who would ever hijack a plane is miniscule.

It's not the few thousand who have the will to get their hands bloody that is only important, but all the millions who give them moral (and financial and psychological) support and approval.
 
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RDKirk

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Most of these comments so far are entertaining, yet way off in reality. Looking at jan 6, flip it around. If you think jan 6 was a bad thing, then you’re saying that our govt is good and that life in general is good. If you believe that, then you dont understand what conservatism is about nor the groups involved with jan 6.

Totally untrue.

Was Nero's government "good?" Was life for Christians under Nero's government "good?" Yet both Paul and Peter instructed Christians not to rebel.

Refusing to engage in violent rebellion against government is not the same thing as saying "our govt is good and that life in general is good."

Right now, we arent hearing much from the right, and its due to planning for the future, but also a desire to become hidden. Mccarthyism is alive and well right now, and its consuming anyone associated with the right. And that is the scary part.

What...has Limbaugh gone off the air? The only reason we aren't hearing quite so much from the right is because Trump is not Tweeting. But the gang is all still there where they have always been.
 
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