Is it really impossible for those who have been born again to depart from the faith?

Neostarwcc

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Okay so its a commonly held belief in Christianity that it is impossible for a born again believer to depart from the faith due to verses like Hebrews 6:4-6, Luke 8:13, and 1 John 2:19. Hebrews 6:4-6 says in the kjv that it is impossible for a born again Christian to leave the faith and if it were possible than there's no way for that person to get their salvation back. So Christians who leave the faith are said to be never born again since only a born again Christian could remain in the faith for forever.

But is this really true? I'm not trying to question the bible and Jesus's statement in John 6:39-40 is very clear. Not one born again believer will be lost. But my question and doubts mostly come from the book of Hebrews. Why would the writer say in the book of Hebrews that IF it were possible there would be no way for that person to get their salvation back? Why not just end with it is impossible for a born again believer to leave the faith? See what I'm saying? Why add the possibility of what would happen if a born again believer left the faith?

To me that kind of negates their previous statement and it says that it is possible for a born again believer to leave the faith and if they do there's no way to get that salvation back. But that's twisting what they said and its not what they're saying at all.


So is it possible for a born again believer to leave the faith? Yes or no? And if they do leave the faith is it possible for them to get their salvation back? What are your thoughts on this?
 

Neostarwcc

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I posted a similar question to this very recently; you might find it useful: can you fall away and come back?

Oh was there a topic on this already? I didn't know... Oops. Lol. I mean it's a frequently talked about topic so it doesn't surprise me. I'll read your topic and see what helpful replies there are.
 
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SkyWriting

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Okay so its a commonly held belief in Christianity that it is impossible for a born again believer to depart from the faith due to verses like Hebrews 6:4-6, Luke 8:13, and 1 John 2:19. Hebrews 6:4-6 says in the kjv that it is impossible for a born again Christian to leave the faith and if it were possible than there's no way for that person to get their salvation back. So Christians who leave the faith are said to be never born again since only a born again Christian could remain in the faith for forever.

But is this really true? I'm not trying to question the bible and Jesus's statement in John 6:39-40 is very clear. Not one born again believer will be lost. But my question and doubts mostly come from the book of Hebrews. Why would the writer say in the book of Hebrews that IF it were possible there would be no way for that person to get their salvation back? Why not just end with it is impossible for a born again believer to leave the faith? See what I'm saying? Why add the possibility of what would happen if a born again believer left the faith?

To me that kind of negates their previous statement and it says that it is possible for a born again believer to leave the faith and if they do there's no way to get that salvation back. But that's twisting what they said and its not what they're saying at all.


So is it possible for a born again believer to leave the faith? Yes or no? And if they do leave the faith is it possible for them to get their salvation back? What are your thoughts on this?


It is impossible for God's Holy Spirit to depart from you, then return.
But it is possible for believers to fall away from Grace and get tangled
in legalism of following all God's written code for salvation.
Those believers can be returned to believing God's Grace with gentle assurance.
And it is also common for people to have faith in the church, fall away, then return to the church. But the church was never God's Holy Spirit in the first place.
 
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HTacianas

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Okay so its a commonly held belief in Christianity that it is impossible for a born again believer to depart from the faith due to verses like Hebrews 6:4-6, Luke 8:13, and 1 John 2:19. Hebrews 6:4-6 says in the kjv that it is impossible for a born again Christian to leave the faith and if it were possible than there's no way for that person to get their salvation back. So Christians who leave the faith are said to be never born again since only a born again Christian could remain in the faith for forever.

But is this really true? I'm not trying to question the bible and Jesus's statement in John 6:39-40 is very clear. Not one born again believer will be lost. But my question and doubts mostly come from the book of Hebrews. Why would the writer say in the book of Hebrews that IF it were possible there would be no way for that person to get their salvation back? Why not just end with it is impossible for a born again believer to leave the faith? See what I'm saying? Why add the possibility of what would happen if a born again believer left the faith?

To me that kind of negates their previous statement and it says that it is possible for a born again believer to leave the faith and if they do there's no way to get that salvation back. But that's twisting what they said and its not what they're saying at all.


So is it possible for a born again believer to leave the faith? Yes or no? And if they do leave the faith is it possible for them to get their salvation back? What are your thoughts on this?

The writer to the Hebrews doesn't say "IF it were possible", he meant "when it happens" it is impossible to return.
 
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Neostarwcc

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It is impossible for God's Holy Spirit to depart from you, then return.
But it is possible for believers to fall away from Grace and get tangled
in legalism of following all God's written code for salvation.
Those believers can be returned to believing God's Grace with gentle assurance.
And it is also common for people to have faith in the church, fall away, then return to the church. But the church was never God's Holy Spirit in the first place.

So the writer of Hebrews and the apostle John were talking about a permanent leaving of the faith?
 
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JLB777

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Okay so its a commonly held belief in Christianity that it is impossible for a born again believer to depart from the faith


What?


It’s definitely not commonly held.


Who told that nonsense?


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1




JLB
 
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Neostarwcc

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The writer to the Hebrews doesn't say "IF it were possible", he meant "when it happens" it is impossible to return.

No.

"
Hebrews 6:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
"

What I said was correct. The writer of Hebrews was saying that it is impossible for those who have the Holy Spirit to fall away and if it were possible than it is impossible for them to get their salvation back. So I go back to my original question. But, it was mostly answered in the thread that worship junkie posted.
 
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Neostarwcc

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What?


It’s definitely not commonly held.


Who told that nonsense?


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1




JLB

Then how do you explain 1 John 2:19? Which clearly says that if a person falls away than they were never born again to begin with.
 
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JLB777

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Then how do you explain 1 John 2:19? Which clearly says that if a person falls away than they were never born again to begin with.


Clearly?


That’s funny. I guess that’s why you didn’t post the actual scripture, but posted your opinion with a scripture reference.

This is clearly the mark of a false teacher.

Strike 1.


First of all, 1 John 2:19 never mentions the terms “fall away”, or
“Born again”


They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
1 John 2:19


Strike 2. You clearly interjected your own words from your own preconceived idea into the actual scripture, thereby adding to God’s word.



Secondly, the scripture I quoted, plainly says “depart from the faith”.



Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


Depart from -


Please explain how a person can depart from, something he was never in?




JLB
 
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SkyWriting

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So the writer of Hebrews and the apostle John were talking about a permanent leaving of the faith?

I started with the premise that this passage is accurate:

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Then I hold that any passages about "falling away" have not met the prerequisite of those who are born again by the Holy Spirit.
 
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Kenny'sID

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But is this really true?

No, not true at all. :)

And this all too popular "They never were Christians to begin with" is a complete distortion of one single scripture in the bible.

This verse alone proves beyond doubt, we CAN be Christian and we CAN fall away.

1 Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Among several other scriptures, the parable of the Prodigal Son proves we can come back to salvation and be welcomed with open arms.

If at first you don't succeed try try again. :)
 
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Albion

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Gill's Exposition of this verse may be instructive.

"...that in the latter times some should depart from the faith; that is, from the doctrine of faith, notwithstanding it is indisputably the great mystery of godliness, as it is called in the latter part of the preceding chapter; for from the true grace of faith there can be no final and total apostasy, such as is here designed; for that can never be lost...."
 
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Kenny'sID

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Gill's Exposition of this verse may be instructive.

"...that in the latter times some should depart from the faith; that is, from the doctrine of faith, notwithstanding it is indisputably the great mystery of godliness, as it is called in the latter part of the preceding chapter; for from the true grace of faith there can be no final and total apostasy, such as is here designed; for that can never be lost...."

I'd guess he subscribed to that belief before he did the commentary so of course that's what he's going to see. Thing is, he doesn't prove the "can never be lost" was biblical, he just added that part, and added it to the very verse that says it can be lost.
 
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So is it possible for a born again believer to leave the faith? Yes or no? And if they do leave the faith is it possible for them to get their salvation back? What are your thoughts on this?

I think it would be good to notice, in John 6, Jesus doesn’t say “born anew”, he speaks of those who God has given to him. It is possible that person would be born anew and still not be one of those who are given to Jesus.


This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day. This is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:39-40
 
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Albion

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I'd guess he subscribed to that belief before he did the commentary so of course that's what he's going to see.
Why would you say so?

Thing is, he doesn't prove the "can never be lost" was biblical, he just added that part, and added it to the very verse that says it can be lost.

Well, I noticed right away that the verse itself does not say what you thought it does. As Gill points out, it is the Christian religion, the "faith," so called, that was being referred to. But the thread is about being "born again," which is a different matter entirely.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Why would you say so?

Why would you not, it's completely obvious why to me. If i believe something like Christianity for instance, it has everything to do with my outlook on everything.

Well, I noticed right away that the verse itself does not say what you thought it does. As Gill points out, it is the Christian religion, the "faith," so called, that was being referred to. But the thread is about being "born again," which is a different matter entirely.

That makes no sense at all to me. My faith is Christianity, and that includes being born again.

Then you believe we cannot fall away from being born again?
 
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Albion

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Why would you not, it's completely obvious why to me. If i believe something like Christianity for instance, it has everything to do with my outlook on everything.
When I wrote, "Why would you say so," I was asking what basis you had for thinking that Gill's exposition was merely a restatement of what he believed before studying the Scripture. I see no reason to assume anything like that.
 
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Kenny'sID

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When I wrote, "Why would you say so," I was asking what basis you had for thinking that Gill's exposition was merely a restatement of what he believed before studying the Scripture. I see no reason to assume anything like that.

I told you already. I have every reason to believe what I said I'd guess was so, is so, or I would not have said it.
 
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